Thread: Newbie requires advice please

You should get protein at every meal. Meals 3 and 6 should have more protein. Especially meal 6 right before bed. Or by low fat cheese do you mean cottage cheese?

Originally Posted by WeightGainNet

You should get protein at every meal. Meals 3 and 6 should have more protein. Especially meal 6 right before bed. Or by low fat cheese do you mean cottage cheese?

Thanks for that. Yes that should say low fat cottage cheese.
Any suggestions for meal 3 would be appreciated.

Are you cutting? Replace that yogurt with cottage cheese and slice up the apples and mix it in with the cottage cheese. Just had that meal earlier today. :-)

Originally Posted by WeightGainNet

Are you cutting?

Yeah, tell us your goals first.

Sorry, cant you just tell I'm new.
I just want to build more muscle, but try not to get too fat, I'm already a 43in waist

Originally Posted by joboco

meal 1 = 50g whey, 35g oats, 1 banana, 8-10am
meal 2 = 100g chicken, onion, garlic, mushrooms, cooked in olive oil + 50g brown rice. 12 - 1 pm.
meal 3 = 1 apple, 30g raisins, handfull mixed nuts, 1/3 tub low fat yogurt. 3- 3.30 pm.
meal 4 = 4 large boiled eggs or 1 tin tuna with salad + 2 slices of multi grain bread.
meal 5 = Training days only, 50g whey + 40g oats, after training.
meal 6 = 175g low fat cheese, 30g raisins, handfull mixed nuts.

How much protein are you consuming a day? I don't see too many plentiful whole protein sources. 100g chicken (approx 20g) + 1 tin tuna (approx 27g) + 4 eggs (approx 24g -- assuming they're large eggs) = 71g.

Then you have 75g oats, which might add 12g or so. Plus, nuts, etc. Still, you want to consume primarily whole foods for protein. Meat and dairy are ideal sources, as they have much higher bioavailability compared to grains, nuts, and legumes.

Also, I'm not sure how much protein is in your whey, but my rule of thumb is consume no more than 1/5 daily protein from whey supplements. There are exceptions like when traveling or busy work days, etc, but that should be those should be exceptions only. You want to set good eating habits with whole foods, which you seem to have down pretty well for your other nutrients.

Also, this diet might be too low in fat. As others have said, we don't know your goals, so it's hard to assess properly, but with the inclusion of oats and bread I'm guessing you're not cutting. Your whole plentiful fat sources are eggs, nuts, and olive oil. However, depending on the temperature at which you're cooking that meal, you might be ridding the oil of some its benefits. Besides, cooking food in oil isn't the most effective way to consume that fat, as not all of it will remain on the food. If you can stomach it, supplement with oil directly; I'm talking tablespoons straight into your mouth. You'll get 20g fat from the eggs and, depending on what constitutes a "handful" of nuts maybe 10-20g fat? Still, you picked excellent sources for fat.

Granted, at 58 years-old your dietary needs will be less than many of the younger guys we advise to shoot down buckets of olive oil, lol. Nevertheless, this diet may be too low-calorie for muscle gain.

Can you enter all that info into fitday and report back to use with your detailed macros? (total calories, and then breakdown of protein, carbs, fat (plus breakdown of how much of each type of fat you're getting).

Overall, though, nice food choices and primarily whole foods.

Fhineas asked.
Can you enter all that info into fitday and report back to use with your detailed macros? (total calories, and then breakdown of protein, carbs, fat (plus breakdown of how much of each type of fat you're getting).

Here goes,

Cals = 2936
Fat = 105.1 g
Carbs = 343.8 g
Prot = 155.1 g

Hope this makes sense to someone.
I think my protein is far too low.
Any suggestions gratefully received.


Also does anyone have any advise on my workout?

Yeah the protein is low and the carbs are some what high. But I guess in a lean bulk thats a average number for carbs. Definitely increase protein.

With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high. At 240 and a 43 inch waist, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle.
You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat.
Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight.
Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.

Originally Posted by FMJ

With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high. At 240 and a 43 inch waist, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle.
You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat.
Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight.
Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.

Agreed, the bold says it all. You should be cutting. I also agree that the training volume is way too high. You're 58 remember? How long do you think you can continue that kind of volume and be injury free?

Yea you should probably double your protein because your definitely big enough to handle it. Usually about 1g/1lbs of body weight. And go nuts on the cottage cheese. I throw that in with my oatmeal in the morning and eat it together. Then just do what was suggested before and use it instead of yogurt in meal 3. Also Eat like 400-500g of chicken not just 100g. The calories are ok for a man your size and the routine looks good as well similar to what I do. You might want to throw in some cardio as well (just an idea).

Originally Posted by scoops1515

Yea you should probably double your protein because your definitely big enough to handle it. Usually about 1g/1lbs of body weight. And go nuts on the cottage cheese. I throw that in with my oatmeal in the morning and eat it together. Then just do what was suggested before and use it instead of yogurt in meal 3. Also Eat like 400-500g of chicken not just 100g. The calories are ok for a man your size and the routine looks good as well similar to what I do. You might want to throw in some cardio as well (just an idea).

What kind of personal trainer are you? How old are you? How long have you been training? This is an overweight, 58 yr old man, that has been training for roughly 8 months. And your advice is to do a routine similar to yours?

Originally Posted by FMJ

With all due respect to Phineas, I think the calories are too high. At 240 and a 43 inch waist, I'm guessing you're more than 25% bodyfat and if so your primary focus should be on a cutting cycle.
You'll likely see some muscle gains as you're new to lifting but I wouldn't recommend consuming more than 2700-2800 calories until you've lost considerable bodyfat. In your case, with 2700ish being your maintainence level, you should cut back to about 2200 calories comprised of something like 50%pro, 25%carbs and 25% fat.
Ater you've lost roughly 20-30 pounds which should bring you down to about 10-15% bodyfat, you could then try bulking to put on quality weight.
Lastly, I think you're performing entirely TOO much in your training. I'm exhausted looking at it! You should be very proud of yourself to do as much as you can but you could probably cut back about 1/3 of that stuff and still make great gains without risking overtraining.

Shit! I looked right passed his BF!!! Damnit all that typing for nothing!

Thanks guys for all your comments. I will work on the food but how do I increase protein and reduce calories.
Any suggestions of what I could cut from my workout as i find it quite easy and have the energy to do more, although my shoulders do sometime ache for longer than other muscles.

Your going to have to replace some stuff.. Good low calorie protein sources are things like Whey Protein, Chicken, Tuna (Fish), etc..

At the risk of being a pain in the neck, and I apologise in advance if I am but, with regard to my daily diet does anyone thing this is better?

Chicken 200g
Brown rice 60g
whole boiled eggs large 4
Cashew nuts 1 oz
Almonds 1 oz
Coconut oil 1 table spoon
Olive oil 1 table spoon
Oats 80g
Low fat cottage cheese 300g
onion 1 small
Mushrooms raw2 medium
Carrot 1
Broccoli 3 flowerets
My Protien inpact whey 100g

Total
Cals = 2288
Fat = 101.2g
Carbs = 114.7g
Protien = 230.9g

Originally Posted by joboco

Thanks guys for all your comments. I will work on the food but how do I increase protein and reduce calories.

Reducing your carb intake will easily allow you to add protein and still reduce your overall calorie intake.

Originally Posted by joboco

Any suggestions of what I could cut from my workout as i find it quite easy and have the energy to do more, although my shoulders do sometime ache for longer than other muscles.

Not a big shocker. You have no balance in your routine. For example, Thursday is shoulder overkill day. You have 5 exercises for your shoulders and 4 exercises for your entire lower body. Not good. Do you really believe that your shoulders can handle more volume than your entire lower body? You also have far too many isolation exercises in your routine and your placement of theses exercises is also bad. I've always felt that grouping Chest & Bi's and Back & Tri's was inefficient. You train Chest & Bi's on Monday and then Tuesday when you train back on Tuesday your fatigued Bi's are likely to limit your pulling(back) routine. Likewise if you did Back & Tri's first your push(bench) routine would suffer from your Tri's being fatigued. You would be far better off going with a push/pull routine and dropping most/all of the overkill accessory work. You should read the stickies in the training section, make a new routine, then post it in the training section for feedback.

Originally Posted by joboco

At the risk of being a pain in the neck, and I apologise in advance if I am but, with regard to my daily diet does anyone thing this is better?

Chicken 200g
Brown rice 60g
whole boiled eggs large 4
Cashew nuts 1 oz
Almonds 1 oz
Coconut oil 1 table spoon
Olive oil 1 table spoon
Oats 80g
Low fat cottage cheese 300g
onion 1 small
Mushrooms raw2 medium
Carrot 1
Broccoli 3 flowerets
My Protien inpact whey 100g

Total
Cals = 2288
Fat = 101.2g
Carbs = 114.7g
Protien = 230.9g

Looks much better, you just beat my post saying cut the carbs.

joboco, how's it going? Diet feeling okay?

Good thanks,
I've lost 6lb in two weeks, but also lost 1/2in off my biceps, and only 1/2in off my waist, so I'm a little confused.

Admittedly I've missed training the last 4 days due to a stomach bug, so I'll just pick up where I left off on Monday.

Originally Posted by joboco

Good thanks,
I've lost 6lb in two weeks, but also lost 1/2in off my biceps, and only 1/2in off my waist, so I'm a little confused.

Admittedly I've missed training the last 4 days due to a stomach bug, so I'll just pick up where I left off on Monday.

It's likely mostly water weight. You'll have to expect your measurements will decline as you cut calories. Just keep your protien up and your workouts demanding and that will help minimize muscle loss.
Good job on the weight loss!

You're definitely old enough for DHEA- I hope it does some good things for your body...

Originally Posted by JMRQ

You're definitely old enough for DHEA- I hope it does some good things for your body...

Thanks JMRQ.
Do you think 100mg is OK, should I cycle it or not.
Is there anything else I could try as well.

Originally Posted by FMJ

It's likely mostly water weight. You'll have to expect your measurements will decline as you cut calories. Just keep your protien up and your workouts demanding and that will help minimize muscle loss.
Good job on the weight loss!

Thanks FMJ with regard to protein should I have 1g per lb of actual body weight, or 1g per lb of solid mass?

joboco, the usual guideline for minimal daily protein is a gram per pound lean mass, although in practice many go higher. I like mine around 1.5g/lb lean mass. For reference, I weigh 146 lbs and carry just under 120 lbs lean mass. My protein minimum is thus 120g daily, but usually consume around 160-180g.

Originally Posted by Built

joboco, the usual guideline for minimal daily protein is a gram per pound lean mass, although in practice many go higher. I like mine around 1.5g/lb lean mass. For reference, I weigh 146 lbs and carry just under 120 lbs lean mass. My protein minimum is thus 120g daily, but usually consume around 160-180g.

Yep. Built is on the mark, as always. And what a spectacular 120lbs of lean mass!

Thanks guys much appreciated.

Well here is my update.
Lost a total of 9lb, then for some strange reason put 4lb back on, waist still at 43in.
So at the moment I'm just sticking with the program to see what happens.