Thread: Enough is enough

NEWBIES START HERE - Nutritional FAQ!


DP

Originally posted by animal56
Whatever happened to the 4 food groups? Low-fat? Milk does a body good?

I know what you mean, I felt like this awhile back, because it feels like you can't eat anything.

I think most of todays sin is because this is what was belived in the past, in relation to carb heavy diets being good. I also believe most of the sin in things being bad for you or bother some people etc, like milk, is because of the processing that goes into todays food. Remember the calf that died from processed milk in 2 weeks?

Wholesome foods dont seem so wholesome anymore, its all pumped full of hormones and then processed with a bunch of crap.

FWIW, your also not supposed to use a microwave, about 10 years ago a french scientist said so

Did you also know its hazardous to your healthy to live near electrical current, especially if lines cross near your vicinity? Now take your goats cows and lambs up to the hills with you

Did you also know that every day you live, you lose a day with it!?!?

Originally posted by animal56

Whatever happened to the 4 food groups?

No that you mention this, has anyone seen the latest USDA Food Pyramid? This thing advocates eating 11 servings of grains, breads and pastas per day. No wonder Americans are fat.

Originally posted by Rob_NC



No that you mention this, has anyone seen the latest USDA Food Pyramid? This thing advocates eating 11 servings of grains, breads and pastas per day. No wonder Americans are fat.

Aren't there 5 servings of fruit too? (only most fruits have too much sugar...some like berries, apple, grapefruit, are good)

I guess my son's submission to have Pizza designated a "Food Group" failed LOL ....

DP

Americans are fat not because of food like bread and pasta, but junk food like McDonald's and such.
It's a bit naive to think that there is one ideal diet plan out there because there isn't; different diets exist for different situations. Athletes, bodybuilders, babies, pubescent teens, people trying to lose weight: they all have different dietary requirements, and therefore it's impossible to say that one diet is suitable for all.
Food being 'good' or 'bad' for you is a very subjective kind of explanation and is not in the least accuarte when it comes to designing a diet - it all depends on what your situation is, and what you want your diet to help you achieve. This is why red meats are recommended to people bulking up, but are advised against to people trying to lose weight.

Hope this clears up some of your confusions

Articles in Glamour and Self advocating many servings of fruit and yogurts, and Fat free/Sugar free desserts don't help those who actually want to eat the right way either!

I remember Ronald Reagan and his buddies were trying to make ketchup a veggie for the kids lunchroom.

you mean it isnt?

Originally posted by EarWax
I remember Ronald Reagan and his buddies were trying to make ketchup a veggie for the kids lunchroom.

LoL no way, wow he really "wasn't" all there...

Americans are fat not because of food like bread and pasta, but junk food like McDonald's and such.
It's a bit naive to think that there is one ideal diet plan out there because there isn't; different diets exist for different situations. Athletes, bodybuilders, babies, pubescent teens, people trying to lose weight: they all have different dietary requirements, and therefore it's impossible to say that one diet is suitable for all.
Food being 'good' or 'bad' for you is a very subjective kind of explanation and is not in the least accuarte when it comes to designing a diet - it all depends on what your situation is, and what you want your diet to help you achieve. This is why red meats are recommended to people bulking up, but are advised against to people trying to lose weight.

I disagree! If you eat 500 calories of nothing but starch, then either you burn the energy (not likely) or its going to turn to fat. As for eating McDonalds then sure, that'll make you fat too, carbs from the bread + vegetable oil galore in the frys along with meager amounts of protein.

Originally posted by Mudge
I disagree! If you eat 500 calories of nothing but starch, then either you burn the energy (not likely) or its going to turn to fat. As for eating McDonalds then sure, that'll make you fat too, carbs from the bread + vegetable oil galore in the frys along with meager amounts of protein.

Ok - you're right, it all comes down to calories at the end of the day. My point was just that statistically, Americans eat more junk food than they should, and this is the largest contributer to obesity in America. Of course there are obese people who never eat junk food - I was merely speaking statistically

Yes, JUNK FOOD aka SUGAR COATED CARBS. Almost everything we eat is carb heavy because in 1950 thats what they thought was healthy, it was believed eating fat made you fat, and that there was little need for protein.

If I starve myself and am willing to lose what small amounts of muscle I do have, sure I could eat pop tarts and lose weight.

An inactive lifestyle coupled with caloric excess is the reason people are fat. Carbs are no more the bad guy than fats in that respect. It is when you get to willpower, something most people are lacking these days, that carbs and fats are not created equal, psychologically speaking.

Originally posted by Mudge
Yes, JUNK FOOD aka SUGAR COATED CARBS. Almost everything we eat is carb heavy because in 1950 thats what they thought was healthy, it was believed eating fat made you fat, and that there was little need for protein.

If I starve myself and am willing to lose what small amounts of muscle I do have, sure I could eat pop tarts and lose weight.

What a fuking brilliant statement...someone should put that in their sig w/ a "" smilie!

Originally posted by Mudge
Almost everything we eat is carb heavy because in 1950 thats what they thought was healthy, it was believed eating fat made you fat, and that there was little need for protein.

huh?

that's what they thought was healthy in the 50's?

Actually I believe the studies were done in the 70s, they studied the life of a male college student and came up with the RDA that we still use to this day.

I'm not a dieting expert so if you catch me talking out of my ass, speak up

As for why so many processed grains/carbs are in our diets these days, well I guess you could go way back to bread which is pretty darn old.

I just found this post by Lyle earlier, and thought you may wanna read it:

> Anyway enough rambling, who has implemented what techniques to successfully
> reach BF%'s below 7-8% (besides Ed, although any comments are appreciated)

It's just not that difficult: create a caloric deficit by eating less
moving more or a combination of the two, repeat until ripped, dead or
clinically insane. When I hit 7% last year (or was it the year before?),
that's all I did: set up a basic hypocaloric diet (mod carb, not keto
FWIW and I don't know the percentages becaus I don't give a shit: I got
enough protein, got my EFA's and the rest of the calories came from
wherever they came from), moderate amounts of cardio, lifting, refed
every so often, stuck to the goddamn plan for once in my frickin' life
and kept at it for long enough for it to work. I was already clinically
insane so that wasn't an issue.

Seriously, the dynamics of losing fat (i.e. what is physiologically
required for fat loss to occur) don't magically change once you break
some abstract bodyfat percentage. Your body will be fighting you
harder, true, but you still have to create a caloric deficit and
maintain it for long enough for your body to mobilize and burn off
stored fatty acids. The same schema (eat less, exercise, repeat) that
got you to 10% will get you below 10%. It just sucks more as your body
fights you harder.

Beyond that, get sufficient protein, get sufficient EFA's, refeed every
so often depending on bodyfat percentage (once you're sub 10%, your
average male is probably looking at a refeed day once every 4-5 days or
so), be consistent and be patient (and, to quote someone from another
forum: don't be a spaz and do stupid shit like cut calories too hard or
do too much cardio). Alternately, or even in addition to the weekly
refeeds, take 7-14 days off the diet every 4-6 weeks at maintenance
calories to attempt to raise thyroid, leptin, etc. and try to reset
metabolism. Assuming you don't have a strict time frame (i.e.
contest/photo shoot) that's probably good advice all around: 1-2 weeks
off your diet every 4-6 weeks.

Be prepared to be hungry pretty much all the time no matter what you do,
it goes with the territory as your body tries to prevent you from
starving yourself to death. With low leptin, none of the normal hunger
blunting signals (CCK, ghrelin, all the rest) don't work very well if at
all. no matter what you do, high fiber, all the low GI foods on the
planet, moderate dietary fat, you'll just be hungry. Deal with it.

Ephedrine/caffeine is a lifesaver here; I wish Dexatrim was still
available, it was a great night-time non-stimulant appetite supressant.
Don't be surprised if you have to keep lowering calories or increasing
cardio as your body further slows metabolic rate as you get leaner and
leaner. There's really no magic or secret involved no matter what
anybody wants to think. It's more an issue at that level of being
disciplined enough to be hungry all the damn time and just suck it up.

Beyond that, what diet you pick (keto vs. mod carb/mod fat or even high
carb/low fat) has more to do with appetite control and personal
preference/physiology than anything else. There is research coming out
now showing that some people do in fact adapt to higher fat diets better
than others but I'm not aware of any good way to know ahead of time
whether any given individual is one of them. A very rough guideline: if
you generally feel fine on carb-based diets (no big assed energy swings,
indicative of good insulin sensitivity and glucose handling), you'll
probably do poorly on low carb diets, you'll feel like shit and just not
lose fat as effectively; if you generally feel shitty on carb-based
diets (wild energy swings indicative of shitty insulin sensitivity and
poor glucose handling), you'll probably do really well on low carb
diets, you'll feel great for once and lose fat really well. Some folks
seem to do fine either way.

As Dan pointed out a few years ago, a high carb diet will, in theory,
cause more fat loss because metabolic rate will be slightly higher (by
about 4% which really isn't that much, about 100+ calories for an
average metabolic rate of 2700 cal/day) but you have to weigh that
against eating more. In one of his last Ironman columns, he mentioned
that all the goofy diets didn't seem to really pan out in terms of
greater fat loss or anything else, it was more an issue of food/calorie
control by eliminating diet breaker foods (usually carbs). Ketosis
isn't protein sparing below about 15% bodyfat anyhow.

And here's why: most of what you lose (fat vs. muscle) is being
determined by your body, not by your diet or your training anyhow so
choice of diet beyond meeting some basic requirements and controlling
calories is really pretty irrelevant. Roughly 75-80% of the variance in
what's lost is determined by bodyfat percentage (and hence leptin
kinetics and everything leptin is controlling which is roughly
everything), there's some slop because of genetics, you can control the
small percentage otherwise by getting enough protein and a few other
things. So pick whatever diet lets you control calories the best, get
enough protein and EFA's, weight train, do your refeeds, get used to
being hungry and be patient. Beyond that, it's in the hands of almighty Grog.

Or take drugs. Drugs work great. As one pro supposedly told a friend of
mine "There's no secret to dieting, buy as many drugs as you can afford
and starve yourself for as long as you can take it." That's cutting
edge contest prep in the pro ranks.

Lyle

Uh oh, here comes another, Lyle's an ass a carb is not just a carb debate!

::ducks under table::

Here's the latest USDA food pyramid from year 2000. Pick it apart if you like.

http://www.health.gov/dietaryguideli...ld.htm#pyramid