Dr. Pain

From our friends at jayrobb.com

Read through the rift-raft to find the info.......

http://www.jayrobb.com/jayrobenarbo.html






DP

Dr. Pain

OK, I'll start........


I have in my belief, been Sub-Clinically Hypothyroid for years. I read "Hypothyroidism" by Broda Barnes many years ago and used morning body temperature before rising as in indicator, along with a slew of symptoms I will post later.....

My temperature at one point was 94.1 degrees

Recent blood work showed elevated TSH, but T3 and T4 within the ranges

There are natural ways to correct this..I will be posting those and info about Wilson's Syndrome (not Disease)...the inability to convert T4 to T3 (which is 5 times more effective at "fat burning")

Additionally.......I will cover briefly certain supps I believe are detrimental to proper thyroid function (and I have first-hand experience with these)......in my upcoming article!


DP

EarWax

Looking forward to it!

"Love is a fruit in season at all times, and within reach of every hand." -Mother Teresa

lina

First of... for being such a knowledgable dude! A Dr. for sure!

OK, don't hold out on all this knowledge will ya?

I 'have' hypothyroidism according to one doc... but he's not for sure because he considers other factors like swelling in ankles, reflexes, glands sizes, and tiredness...

Anyhoo, what do you consider normal levels of TSH, T4, T3?

Also any good links on this subject?

Dr. Pain

Thanks Lina...I had some, but not bookmarked, trapped as PM's on a site I was banned form....will see what I can do soon.

It's not so much the clinically levels....but your symptoms, body temperature, and your body's abilty to acknowledge TSH and utilize T4 and T4 properly!

Your lab tests can be fine..and you may not be.


We will add to this post in coming days....


DP

lina

Hey.... a little overuse on the smiley on this one!!

No, you are definitely right. My lab tests are normal but that's why he diagnosed me on my symptoms. He (my doc) is also very controversial in this area and many of his collegues do not agree with his treatment. (Treating patients that have "normal" lab tests). After a while I started doubting him and thus I have stopped taking meds for now...

Can't wait for that article... when is it coming out?

Dr. Pain

The article (Oct 1) which is Part 2 of the one on the main site www.ironmagazine.com won't help this topic much.......it will mention supps that mess up your thyroid and hormonal flow........we will continue this tomorrow, Sat at the latest

DP

Dr. Pain

Let's start with Wilson' Syndrome......This is slightly controversial in the medical profession.....some disbelieve

One Doctor writes


Symptoms

Fatigue
Headaches & Migraines
PMS
Easy Weight Gain
Depression
Irritability
Fluid Retention
Anxiety & Panic Attacks
Hair Loss
Poor Memory
Poor Concentration
Low Sex Drive
Unhealthy Nails
Dry Skin & Hair
Cold Intolerance /
Heat Intolerance
Low Motivation
Low Ambition
Insomnia
Allergies
Acne
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
Asthma
Hives
And many others...

Another POV

Symptoms of Wilson's Syndrome

If you have a body temperature of less than 98.6 F. and some of the following symptoms you probably have Wilson's Syndrome. This condition involves a disorder where the cells of the body are unable to convert the inactive thyroid hormone, T4, into the more active hormone, T3. Wilson's Syndrome itself does not alter the thyroid hormone tests. It may exist in association with true hypothyroidism, however. In these cases, thyroid tests may be abnormal but the usually prescribed thyroid hormones may not entirely solve the problem.


Symptoms of Wilson's Syndrome may include the following:

acid indigestion allergies anxiety panic attacks
arthritis muscular/joint aches asthma bad breath
increase bruising canker sores carpal tunnel syndrome elevated cholesterol levels
cold hands and feet and Raynaud's phenomenon constipation/irritable bowel syndrome lack of coordination depression
dry eyes/blurred vision dry hair hair loss dry skin
fatigue fluid retention flushing food cravings
food intolerances headaches including migraines heat and/or cold intolerance hemorrhoids
hives hypoglycemia recurrent infections infertility
insomnia and narcolepsy irregular periods and menstrual cramps irritability
itchiness lightheadedness low blood pressure decreased memory and concentration
decreased motivation/ambition musculoskeletal strains unhealthy nails changes in pigmentation, skin, and hair
increased post-prandial response premenstrual syndrome psoriasis decreased self-esteem
decreased sex drive and anhedonia inhibited sexual development increased skin infections/acne increased susceptibility to substance abuse
abnormal swallowing and throat sensations sweating abnormalities tinnitus (ringing in the ears) inappropriate weight gain
decreased wound healing.


If you suspect that you have Wilson's Syndrome, take your temperature with an accurate glass/mercury thermometer orally 3 hours after getting up and every 3 hours times 3 for a couple of days. If your temperature averages a few 10ths of a degree below 98.6F., and you have several of the above symptoms, you have Wilson's Syndrome.

This list of symptoms was taken from the Table of Contents of E. Denis Wilson, M.D. Wilson's Syndrome: The Miracle of Feeling Well, Cornerstone Publishing Company, Orlando, FL. Third Edition, 1996.

DP

Dr. Pain

OK....now that everyone thinks they have this...And over veiw of Thyroid disorders................


http://www.alternativementalhealth.c...es/wilsons.htm

DP

w8lifter

I'm glad you said that...cause I was just going to point out....w/ all those "symptoms" how the hell could you not think you have it

Dr. Pain

Finally....recovered work......



-----------Conversion of T4 to T3 and reverse-T3: A Summary
The thyroid gland secretes mostly T4 and very little T3. Most of the T3 that drives cell metabolism is produced by action of the enzyme named 5'-deiodinase, which converts T4 to T3. (We pronounce the "5'-" as "five-prime.") Without this conversion of T4 to T3, cells have too little T3 to maintain normal metabolism; metabolism then slows down. T3, therefore, is the metabolically active thyroid hormone. For the most part, T4 is metabolically inactive. T4 "drives" metabolism only after the deiodinase enzyme converts it to T3.

Another enzyme called 5-deiodinase continually converts some T4 to reverse-T3. reverse-T3 does not stimulate metabolism. It is produced as a way to help clear some T4 from the body.

Under normal conditions, cells continually convert about 40% of T4 to T3. They convert about 60% of T4 to reverse-T3. Hour-by-hour, conversion of T4 continues with slight shifts in the percentage of T4 converted to T3 and reverse-T3. Under normal conditions, the body eliminates reverse-T3 rapidly. Other enzymes quickly convert reverse-T3 to T2 and T2 to T1, and the body eliminates these molecules within roughly 24-hours. (The process of deiodination in the body is a bit more complicated than I can explain in this short summary.) The point is that the process of deiodination is dynamic and constantly changing, depending on the body's needs.

Under certain conditions, the conversion of T4 to T3 decreases, and more reverse T3 is produced from T4. Three of these conditions are food deprivation (as during fasting or starvation), illness (such as liver disease), and stresses that increase the blood level of the stress hormone called cortisol. We assume that reduced conversion of T4 to T3 under such conditions slows metabolism and aids survival.

Thus, during fasting, disease, or stress, the conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. At these times, conversion of T4 to T3 decreases about 50%, and conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases about 50%. Under normal, non-stressful conditions, different enzymes convert some T4 to T3 and some to reverse-T3. The same is true during fasting, illness, or stress; only the percentages change--less T4 is converted to T3 and more is converted to reverse-T3.

The reduced T3 level that occurs during illness, fasting, or stress slows the metabolism of many tissues. Because of the slowed metabolism, the body does not eliminate reverse-T3 as rapidly as usual. The slowed elimination from the body allows the reverse-T3 level in the blood to increase considerably.

In addition, during stressful experiences such as surgery and combat, the amount of the stress hormone cortisol increases. The increase inhibits conversion of T4 to T3; conversion of T4 to reverse-T3 increases. The same inhibition occurs when a patient has Cushing's syndrome, a disease in which the adrenal glands produce too much cortisol. Inhibition also occurs when a patient begins taking cortisol as a medication such as prednisone. However, whether the increased circulating cortisol occurs from stress, Cushing's syndrome, or taking prednisone, the inhibition of T4 to T3 conversion is temporary. It seldom lasts for more than one-to-three weeks, even if the circulating cortisol level continues to be high. Studies have documented that the inhibition is temporary.

A popular belief nowadays (proposed by Dr. Dennis Wilson) has not been proven to be true, and much scientific evidence tips the scales in the "false" direction with regard to this idea. The belief is that the process involving impaired T4 to T3 conversion--with increases in reverse-T3--becomes stuck. The "stuck" conversion is supposed to cause chronic low T3 levels and chronically slowed metabolism. Some have speculated that the elevated reverse-T3 is the culprit, continually blocking the conversion of T4 to T3 as a competitive substrate for the 5’-deiodinase enzyme. However, this belief is contradicted by studies of the dynamics of T4 to T3 conversion and T4 to reverse-T3 conversion. Laboratory studies have shown that when factors such as increased cortisol levels cause a decrease in T4 to T3 conversion and an increase in T4 to reverse-T3 conversion, the shift in the percentages of T3 and reverse-T3 produced is only temporary
--------------------------------

Notice the important words, fasting, stress, combat, CORTISOL!

DP

Dr. Pain

Don't even ask me about T3 and Depression!

DP

lina

OK, I have 60% of the symptoms listed (who doesn't?)

So I took my temp today.. Mind you today was a busy day in our household so not exactly spaced 3 hours apart like suggested but I recorded it just for curiosity sake and will do that tomorrow too....

7:30am 97.9 degrees (just woken)

1:30pm 98.1 degrees (got back from son's soccer game, hot day outside.. took temp about 1 hour after gotten home)

5:30pm 97.9 degrees (got home and took a shower, then measured)
=====================
ave today: 97.9 degrees

lina

Ephedrine?

Dr. Pain

Yes, thermos..... but not like you'd expect though.

BTW...if you took those readings while on ECA, they are invalid.


DP

lina

Well I didn't take any Ephedrine today and today I did the reading... would that still make my reading valid or does the ECA stay in your system for long?

Dr. Pain

More valid.......half-life depends on one's metabolism

Also try a morning temperature while still in bed, within 10 minutes of waking?


DP

lina

Well I guess the more I take my temps it depends on what your level of activity is before you measure and thus probably fluctuate during the day... higher probably mid-day? Obviously I shouldn't take my temp after a marathon run every time...

So today:
7:30am (right after waking) 97.6 degrees
11am (after cooking) 98.4
2pm (in car) 98
11pm (sitting surfin' net) 97.2

ave today=============97.8

Dp, can't believe your temp was 94.1 at one point! That is very low!

Dr. Pain

Lina


Keep track of your waking for 1-2 week. K?

Yep...94.1 I was freaked.....average wasn't much better....95.5-96.5


DP

lina

OK, will do!

Maybe I'll just keep track of that in my journal then...

So I guess you are 'cured' now? So are you on any T3 meds now?