Dillyo

Hey, I'm new to this forum and have some questions for you experienced lifters. I am 16 years old and have been working out for a little over a year. I weigh about 125 pounds. I started off last year barely being able to lift the bar steady, I was extremely weak. Now I can say I'm honestly pretty strong for my size weight. I have gotten bigger over these last past weeks due to a change in my diet and attitude towards working out. I maxed out about a month ago at 200, not that its relevant, but it sort of is. I cant seem to develope my chest. I do a dumb bell bench and regular straight bench with a bar. Im using 65 pound dumbells, going slow making sure theres negative "rip" or whatever the technical term is. As for my diet:

Breakfast: 22 grams of protien (Optimum 100% Whey), bannana, strawberries, ice cream, milk, in a blender. In between breakfast and lunch I eat a Real Protien bar, one with no collegan or gelatin, which has 30 grams of protien, 28 carbs. I work out about an hour and a half after I eat my meal bar for 45 minutes. Right after I lift I have 2 scoops of Cell Tech with water and whatever my school is serving for lunch, usually pizza, fries, hamburgers, chicken sandwiches, the usual. I have access to a salad bar might I add but I usually dont take advantage of it. When I get home from school around 2-3 hours after lunch, I make another 22gram protien shake just with water. Then an hour later I eat dinner. Dinner is usually a big meal, always with some fiber. After dinner around 8-10 I'll usually make myself a frozen meal, noodle bowl or somthing like that. I am also taking L-Glutamine 500mg pills 3 times a day, one with breakfast, one with lunch, and one with dinner.

Sorry for the lenghty post. I just started sticking to this diet strictly last week and I have already made some gains in strength and size. I just want to make sure I shouldnt change anything else around before I waste alot of time and effort. I also have a work out plan but thats another story. If anyone is actually interested I'll post it but I feel I have written to much already. Thanks again.

Dillyo

butterfly

IMO... you are young enough to be able to get away with eating the crappy school lunches. My 15 yr old has to eat them too.

Not sure those frozen meals are the best thing for you that late at night... maybe try some tuna or someone else might have a better idea.

How tall are you?

~Ann
We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open.
-Harry Edwards

Dillyo

Only one reply , I'm alittle dissapointed. I was hoping to get some more opinions. I apreciate your help though, thank you. I am only 5'6-5'7. My dad is 5'8, mom is 5'2, sister is 5'3, etc. Maybe I will grow a few more inches, maybe... Those frozen meals are of course not nutrious, they just crave my hunger

Dillyo

I was also considering taking 1-test by VPX. I heard people get great weight and strength gains from it. I was also told I was way too young to take it. Not sure..

Prince

For your age that's not too bad of a diet! I wish that I ate that well at 16.

What exactly is your goal, I don't seem to remember reading one?

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• AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders
• CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements
• MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal
• BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!
• HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

Robboe

1. Make sure you progress in the gym each and every workout by either adding reps to the poundage you did last week or adding weight to the bar.

2. Ensure you're gaining weight each week. usually 1lb or so a week is the norm, but since you're 16 and 125lbs and more or less still considered 'a beginner', you can make larger strides as far as packing on muscle goes. What did you weigh before you started training? I'd have expected more weight gain after one year. Sounds like you may not have been eating enough.

3. Forget the 1-test.

4. Forget cell tech. Too pricey. You can get dextrose on it's own much cheaper and you can buy ALA if you really want (it's not really all that IMO). Throw it in with your protein powder and use it post workout.

5. focus more on real food proteins every other time of day. 5-6 'meals' a day is grand. Make them as balanced as possible ie quality carbs, good protein, good fat, all in more or less equal calorie quantities.

6. make sure your training is on point. Not too much volume and not too much frequency. 3-4 days a week of heavy training with a good split.

7. Train legs.

8. ensure progression in everything you do.

9. Go to training and ask gopro for a training routine if you're unsure.

10. Never eat whey protein on it's own, and try and avoid whey protein intake any other time than post workout (it's quite a piss-poor choice of protein at any other time).


By the way, for anyone curious, i'll try and pull up a good thread on MFW that explains number 10 a bit better.

Being held down by The Man

Prince

Please do.

• SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore
• AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders
• CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements
• MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal
• BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!
• HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

Robboe

There are some fan-fuckin-tastic posts on this thread: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...itness.weights


Arse, it starts at Lyle's post. I didn't want that. Best to click on the first name and read the thread from the start.

Being held down by The Man

Prince

I did not find where he explains why whey protein is a "shitty" protein.

• SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore
• AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders
• CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements
• MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal
• BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!
• HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

Robboe

Who said 'shitty'?

I said 'piss-poor', and not just in general. It's decent enough post workout, but it's arsey for any other time of day.

I never said whey is shitty.

Being held down by The Man

Robboe

And the thread explains why - did you read his posts about the amino acid pool that the body tightly regulates?

Being held down by The Man

Prince

you did not say shitty he did:

• SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore
• AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders
• CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements
• MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal
• BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!
• HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

Robboe

He said it's shitty for general use other than post workout.

He didn't say it was shitty altogether.

Ok, here's some highlights from that thread, which DO explain why whey = piss-poor at other times of the day:


Getting amino acids to recently worked muscles quickly has been shown to
improve anabolism after training. In that sense, whey may be slightly
better. OF course, consuming casein (cheaper) 2 hours before your
workout is going to end accomplishes the same thing.
There is an additional free amino acid pool of about 100 grams (of which
5 grams is in muscle) that is used for protein synthesis (it is also
where broken down protein gets dumped).
Following training, there is increased uptake into the muscle from the
free AA pool, which is why post workout protein is important, to keep
the free pool from becoming depleted.
If they are trying to 'mimic' the speed of whey by hydrolysing it
further, they will generate teh same problems as with whey. This is what
the recent studies (and even the original fast/slow protein study
showed): because whey digests so fast, the liver has no other option but
to burn more of the aminos than it would otherwise.

An under-appreciated fact (under-apprecaited because most people who
write about protein don't know anything about real protein metabolism)
is that body's free AA pool is tightly regulated. I mean tightly.
Under all kinds of different circumstances (from overeating to
starvation to cancer to whatever), you almost never see much variance in
the free pool.

One study found that a massive 3 g/kg of protein all eaten at once,
that's like 300 grams of prtoein for a 100kg person, only raises the
amino acid pool by about 30%, which is about 30 grams. meaning the
other 270 grams were burned in the liver. And most of what got into the
bloodstream were branch chain amino acids. So that's 10% of the total
protein actually reaching the bloodtream in the first place.

Now, we know that things are happening, good or bad, under those
circumstances (overfeeding, etc). Which tells us that the body will do
whatever it has to to maintain the free pool.

in the case of cancer or even extreme dieting, where the body is using a
lot of protein for energy, to maintain the free pool the body will break
down muscle protein. So you get a flow of aminos out of the muscle into
the free pool because there is increased flow out of the free pool into
the liver.

in the case of overfeeding, especially protein, the body will increase
amino acid oxidation in the liver. Which is what happens with whey
protein. To avoid increasing the free AA pool, the liver just burns off
the excess.

This may not be an issue post-workout, because you have increase uptake
into the muscle from the free AA pool, meaning that the liver *may*
(meaning it hasn't been looked at yet) NOT oxidize the excess. But under
non-post workout circumstances, the speed of digestion makes whey a
shitty protein.

A fast casein hydrosylate will have all of those problems. On top of
tasting like absolute shit because of the high free form amino acid
concentration (free form amino acids like arginine or ornithine taste
roughly like bleach). So the Proteinfactory's new product will have all
the drawbacks of whey (or the one advantage of being good post-workout)
and will taste like absolute shit. Sounds like a winner product to me.
Unfortunately, due to the difficulty of finding casein (Yes, I know
proteinfactory sells it), I end up using whey by default. Because it's
what's available, not because it's my first choice of a protein. Post
workout, I will put whey protein in 2% lactose reduced milk and add
whtever else I need to get the calorie/macronutrient content that I want.

And, if there is a single time where whey may have it's greatest use,
it'd be post workout. For reasons already discussed.

Again, you can achieve roughly the same effect (providing AAs to the
worked muscle after the workout ends) by taking a whole protein (or
casein) about 2 hours before the workout ends. Between digestion time,
etc, you'll have AAs hitting the bloodstream during the workout and
right after.

Because I'm stuck with whey, I've taken to having about 20 grams of
protein and maybe 30 grams of carbs an 30 minutes before the start of my
workout, mixed in as little water as I can use. Same basic effect as
above but taking into account the relativley faster digestion/absorption
time of whey. The carbs help maintain blood glucose during training as
well (you could just as easily sip a low concentration carb drink during training).
That was my point: the free AA pool really isn't ever depleted, except
maybe in the case of severe, lethal starvation. And it'll only become
depleted right before death, if it occurs at all. The body does
everything in it's power, tearing down muscle and organ protein to keep
the free AA pool from falling more than a little bit. If anything kills
you during starvation, it's usually the loss of organ protein (esp. heart).

Basically, I would simply take the standard daily protein intake of ~1
g/lb LBm or so divide that roughly evenly throughout the day, and put
some portion before and after exercise. Worrying about it in much more
detail than that isn't likely to have a significant effect. Also,
realize taht protein synthesis is taking place for ~36 hours post
workout, so pre and post workout aren't the important time points
(relatively speaking) to get growth.
It's hard to explain without graphics. Check out the meso article and
just think of it in terms of changes in flow. Actually, lemme try to
draw it.

liver <-> blood AA pool <-> muscle AA pool <-> muscle protein

This is a basic schematic of the system. Double arrows indicate that AAs
can go either direction.

So during starvation, you get increased protein oxidation in the liver.
This causes the liver to start to draw AAs out of the blood AA pool,
which makes the body start to draw AAs out of the muscle AA pool. Since
both the blood and muscle AA pool are tightly regulated, the only way to
compensate for the change in flow direction (towards the liver) is to
break down muscle protein. Basically, everything starts moving left.
Since muscle protein is at the end, that's what loses in this situation.

After training, its reversed. Muscle starts to extract AAs from the
muscle AA pool for synthesis. This causes a draw from the blood AA
pool, which causes a draw on the liver AA pool. If there aren't
sufficient AAs in the liver (from pre or post workout protein intake),
the body will shut down protein synthesis as soon as the muscle AA pool
starts to become a little bit depleted. Basically everything starts
moving right. But if there aren't sufficieent dietary AAs available, it
can't proceed and everything shuts down.

Assuming that you don't have an increased need for glutamine (i.e. from
stress, trauma, etc), yuppers. the liver appears to 'monitor' the
amount of AA in the free AA pool and oxidizes whatever isn't needed.

Lyle

Being held down by The Man

Robboe

Here's some more

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...itness.weights

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...itness.weights

Being held down by The Man

Dillyo

Damn. Very nice. Thank you for all this information. So basically I'm really eating that well? heh

Dillyo

Last year when I first started lifting I was about 120, then after a year i was up to 135. I stopped working out over the summer, kept my strenth and lost my size.