Thread: Back to training after 1 year layoff,need help with nutrition...

Welcome back. How about you read the link in my sig on getting started and tell us your current macros?

Originally Posted by Built

Welcome back. How about you read the link in my sig on getting started and tell us your current macros?

Thanks for the info. but i already read that.I have been training since i am 15.The training is not problem its the diet part when it comes to low carb diets.For the past year or so i have been eating anything at anytime so as far as macro's i really don't know right now.
When i use to be training and eating right i use to follow 40%P,30%C,30%F and consuming cal. depending on my weight.I think its time for me to try a Low carb diet but i have never done it before so i want to start on the right foot.I just have to figure out my calorie intake like i said im 6'2" 230lbs and i will be starting work in a few weeks and i have a very physical job especially for the first few months. What i would like to know is on a low carb diet what % of protein,carbs,fat should i consume? and when following a low carb diet can i have a cheat day? because i always used to have a cheat day on staturday. Thanks

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

Thanks for the info. but i already read that.I have been training since i am 15.The training is not problem its the diet part when it comes to low carb diets.

I know. That's why I asked you to read the link. I want to know your current calories and macros.

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

For the past year or so i have been eating anything at anytime so as far as macro's i really don't know right now.

I realize this. That's why I gave you that link - there's information on how to find your macronutrient mix and calories in that article.

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

When i use to be training and eating right i use to follow 40%P,30%C,30%F and consuming cal. depending on my weight.

Consuming how many calories depending on your weight?

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

I think its time for me to try a Low carb diet

Why? For what purpose? What do you think a low carb diet is capable of doing for you?

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

but i have never done it before so i want to start on the right foot.I just have to figure out my calorie intake like i said im 6'2" 230lbs and i will be starting work in a few weeks and i have a very physical job especially for the first few months. What i would like to know is on a low carb diet what % of protein,carbs,fat should i consume?

If you read that link, you'd know that the percentages won't help you. Your body can't do math.

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

and when following a low carb diet can i have a cheat day? because i always used to have a cheat day on staturday. Thanks

FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

I await your information.

Originally Posted by Built

Welcome back. How about you read the link in my sig on getting started and tell us your current macros?

I just logged in fitday and here are my macro's for yesterday and probably the last 6 months:

Calories: 4356

Protein: 195g Carbs:404g Fat:218g

My maintenance right now is around 3200 cal.

And its not ALL wholesome foods.There is junk food in there.My body fat is around 29%.And like i am a bit active right now but in two weeks i will start a physical job and start training.

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

I just logged in fitday and here are my macro's for yesterday and probably the last 6 months:

Calories: 4356

Protein: 195g Carbs:404g Fat:218g

And its not ALL wholesome foods.There is junk food in there.My body fat is around 29%.And like i am a bit active right now but in two weeks i will start a physical job and start training.

You could take the common sense approach and eat less calories. Your maintenance is prolly what you said. If you ate at maintenance and then had a job where you burned calories you would lose weight. Add some kind of weight training and you should be eating plenty of food and losing weight.

^That.

It's all you need to do.

A little extra help I'll offer is to increase protein to about 300g, drop carbs back to about 200g and drop fat down to about 100g. Try eating only three or four large meals a day and ditching all snacks.

These are all really great responses. I recently came back from a long period off from any type of training. I am about the same age and height but a bit lighter. I also had a few pounds of fat to shed...still do but I am making progress.

I cut my caloric intake to a 500 cal deficit from my Basal Met Rate. Then any training I do is simply a bonus cal deficit. I average about 2 pounds a week loss in weight (from fat, water weight, etc).

I also try to focus on getting more of my calories from protein than from Fat or Carbs. This means I can actually consume more filling food (at least for me) and it is easier to keep cals down. Plus the protein is good to maintain my muscle growth from the weight lifting workouts.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Built

A little extra help I'll offer is to increase protein to about 300g, drop carbs back to about 200g and drop fat down to about 100g. Try eating only three or four large meals a day and ditching all snacks.

OK thanks a lot but can you tell me if this is ok:I used the 1.25g P/lbs weight so it gives me 288g P and for Fat i use .50g/lbs so that gives me 115g F so if i base myself of a 2700 cal./day so that leaves me 128 Carbs.Would 2700 cal. 288g P/128g C/115g F be OK or would 128g C be too low? because i know you said 200g of carbs but if i put up my carbs i have to put up my daily calories. thanks for the help

P.S. Or i can do like you said 300g P/200g C/100g F but my calorie intake will be 2900 calorie/day.Is it better to have a 15% calorie deficit or 10% will do OK? i know some go up to 20% deficit from maintenance

128g carbs per day is fine. I only eat probably 10g or less carbs per day in my salad dressings / half and half. Unlike protein or fat, there is no lower limit on the amount of carbs you should eat (except fiber, but I don't count that as a carb anyway).

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

These are all really great responses. I recently came back from a long period off from any type of training. I am about the same age and height but a bit lighter. I also had a few pounds of fat to shed...still do but I am making progress.

I cut my caloric intake to a 500 cal deficit from my Basal Met Rate.

I *think* you mean from your maintenance calories, right? BMR is the calories required to lie in bed and not move. Maintenance is the calories required to neither gain nor lose weight. Just semantics, you seem to have it going on.

Then any training I do is simply a bonus cal deficit. I average about 2 pounds a week loss in weight (from fat, water weight, etc).

I also try to focus on getting more of my calories from protein than from Fat or Carbs. This means I can actually consume more filling food (at least for me) and it is easier to keep cals down. Plus the protein is good to maintain my muscle growth from the weight lifting workouts.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

OK thanks a lot but can you tell me if this is ok:I used the 1.25g P/lbs weight so it gives me 288g P and for Fat i use .50g/lbs so that gives me 115g F so if i base myself of a 2700 cal./day so that leaves me 128 Carbs.Would 2700 cal. 288g P/128g C/115g F be OK or would 128g C be too low?

That's just fine. Keep yourself comfortable while you do this, and you'll succeed.

because i know you said 200g of carbs but if i put up my carbs i have to put up my daily calories. thanks for the help

P.S. Or i can do like you said 300g P/200g C/100g F but my calorie intake will be 2900 calorie/day.Is it better to have a 15% calorie deficit or 10% will do OK? i know some go up to 20% deficit from maintenance

Originally Posted by danzik17

128g carbs per day is fine. I only eat probably 10g or less carbs per day in my salad dressings / half and half. Unlike protein or fat, there is no lower limit on the amount of carbs you should eat (except fiber, but I don't count that as a carb anyway).

^ That.

oh my..I really wanted to lose weight..I just cant the exact weight that i have been wanting..uurrgghh! I badly need an effective diet plan

Originally Posted by Built

I *think* you mean from your maintenance calories, right? BMR is the calories required to lie in bed and not move. Maintenance is the calories required to neither gain nor lose weight. Just semantics, you seem to have it going on.





That's just fine. Keep yourself comfortable while you do this, and you'll succeed.



^ That.

Thanks Built, I actually do mean Basal (at full rest requirements). It is about 75-80% my Maintenance requirements. I dont actually do this for long periods of time, but it does give pretty quick fat loss results.

After a while I move it up to just under maintenance (at least what it seems to be as everything is just estimates) and then to maintenance levels. Because being under BMR for very long makes me tired and it is tough to get the full effect of a workout.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

Thanks Built, I actually do mean Basal (at full rest requirements). It is about 75-80% my Maintenance requirements.

Really? Because according to this website BMR Calculator , my BMR is 1371.05 and my maintenance is about 2200, which puts my BMR at about 65% of my maintenance.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

I dont actually do this for long periods of time, but it does give pretty quick fat loss results.

After a while I move it up to just under maintenance (at least what it seems to be as everything is just estimates) and then to maintenance levels. Because being under BMR for very long makes me tired and it is tough to get the full effect of a workout.

You wouldn't really want to train very much at below BMR. Lyle McDonald's "Rapid Fat Loss" is the fastest rate at which you could drop fat without chewing through muscle, and as a category I dieter, the highest my calories would run would be 1150 a day - which is about 200 calories a day below my estimated BMR. On this diet, I'd lift weights for about half an hour, twice a week - plus do some walking. Anything more than this is not recommended so I'm not sure what kind of workouts you're expecting to manage on 500 calories below BMR!

Originally Posted by Built

Really? Because according to this website BMR Calculator, my BMR is 1371.05 and my maintenance is about 2200, which puts my BMR at about 65% of my maintenance.
You wouldn't really want to train very much at below BMR. Lyle McDonald's "Rapid Fat Loss" is the fastest rate at which you could drop fat without chewing through muscle, and as a category I dieter, the highest my calories would run would be 1150 a day - which is about 200 calories a day below my estimated BMR. On this diet, I'd lift weights for about half an hour, twice a week - plus do some walking. Anything more than this is not recommended so I'm not sure what kind of workouts you're expecting to manage on 500 calories below BMR!

I went to that site and plugged in the numbers for a BMR of 1833. My maintenance is estimated at 2520 with the "lightly active" 1.375 ratio- so that puts my BMR at 73%(approx). (note I used total body weight not lean mass. The lean mass calc cuts about 200 cals out of my BMR for about 1650)

I have not read "Rapid Fat Loss", but when I am trying to lose fat (as I am now) I try (emphasis on "try") to keep daily cals to about 12-1400. (hence my 500 average deficit). Currently, on this diet I lift 3x a week for about 45-60 minutes. And because my cardio fitness is so low right now (not for fat loss) I also run about 2mi 3x a week.

I have seen about 2 lbs a week (average) weight loss for about 7 weeks now. And every time I lift I go to positive failure at 8ish reps (sometimes one more or less rep) for about 3 sets. Then the next week I add weight or a rep or two and go (again) to failure (just cant quite get another rep in full).

So, I am loosing weight and still gaining strength. Seems to work for me right now. I will probably go for one or two more weeks and add a few more calories. And at that point I will likely reduce reps, add weight to the bar to try to make some bigger muscle gains.

I feel good most of the time but do seem to tire a little more easily at the end of my training right now. I think I can do so much on this diet because of my stored energy (fat).

But, as I said, it seems to be working for me right now. I still have a good 10lbs I want to cut (I say weight but really it is % body fat that I look at. I don't really care what my weight is, just how I look). But that cut will have to come down the line as I need a break (metal and physical) from this extremely limited cal intake.

I need a lot of work right now. I was not training for years and just as I started getting back into it- I broke my elbow. So I am just finally recovering from that and training again (I am about 95% of the poundage that I was lifting before the break).

Working hard to get back into a better body

now, what could be the right exercise when I am just at home? can i still do some work out inside the house?

*digs around*...ah, here's the stuff from Lyle on calorie cutting:

It’s a nasty little paper, filled primarily with equations, explanations of those equations and some more equations to boot. Headache inducing to be sure. I’ll spare you the details. Based on a somewhat simplified analysis of what data exists (including the seminal Minnesota semi-starvation experiment), they conclude that the maximal rate at which fat stores can provide energy to the body is 290 +- 25 kj/kg which is approximately 31 kcal/lb of fat per day.

So, if you are carrying a mere 10 lbs. of fat, you can sustain a 310 cal/day deficit.
20 lbs. = 620 calories.
30 lbs. = 930 calories

You get the idea and this is not difficult math. Multiply your total fat mass in pounds by 31, that’s how much of a caloric deficit that fat mass can support on a daily basis.

One quick note: the above values are for dieting only and one of the simplifying assumptions in the paper was relatively ‘normal/moderate’ activity levels. The paper mentions specifically that the values above might be varied through pharmaceutical means (which target the rate limiting steps of fat energy transfer), or through high levels of activity. It even mentions bodybuilders specifically as a group that might exceed this value with a lot of training. For now, I’ll just focus on the diet end, I’ll come back to drugs and exercise afterwards.

So, the basic assertion of the paper is that, so long as the net daily deficit does not exceed what your fat stores can provide, you should spare lean body mass. And based on the small amount of research that they found, this seemed to be generally true (many studies find an initial rapid LBM loss but this is most likely glycogen and water and stuff, not muscle mass). By extension, if your daily caloric deficit exceeds the above, your body will have to mobilize LBM to cover the difference. So let’s look at an example.

Say we have a 180 lb male at 15% bodyfat. He has 27 lbs. of fat, and his maintenance calorie intake is 15 cal/lb or 2700 calories. With 27 lbs. of fat, he should be able to sustain a caloric deficit, from diet alone, of 27 lbs. fat * 31 cal/lb = 837 calories/day. So he could reduce his calories to 1863 (ha! 10 cal/lb) and shouldn’t lose any LBM at that level of intake. He should get a weekly fat loss of just over 1.5 lbs./week.

Using this formula (and calipers) would allow you to adjust your caloric deficit as you go. Excel makes this very easy (it's a tab on my food log along with the 7-site skinfold calc worksheet <g>).

Originally Posted by Mrpc9886

*digs around*...ah, here's the stuff from Lyle on calorie cutting:




Using this formula (and calipers) would allow you to adjust your caloric deficit as you go. Excel makes this very easy (it's a tab on my food log along with the 7-site skinfold calc worksheet <g>).

Can you please link back to that article? I'd be very interested in reading it in its entirety and looking at it's source data - I've never seen this method.

Sho'nuff (reparse these because evidently I can't post a fricking link for crying outloud):
dub-dub-dub"dot"forum.bodybuilding. com "slant" showthread.php?t=109897051

A longer version is available here:
dub-dub-dub"dot"fitnessprat "dot"no"slant"f13/determining-the-maximum-dietary-deficit-for-fat-loss-21608/

HTH.

It's interesting to plug it all into excel and crunch the numbers on oneself to see *where* you should be at a given BW/LBM & BF. Of course then it comes back to using a food log if you want to *know* vs *just guessing* and wish to approach the matter as efficiently and effectively as possible to avoid unnecessary LBM wasting.

Is your maintenance, in fact,

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

I went to that site and plugged in the numbers for a BMR of 1833. My maintenance is estimated at 2520 with the "lightly active" 1.375 ratio- so that puts my BMR at 73%(approx). (note I used total body weight not lean mass. The lean mass calc cuts about 200 cals out of my BMR for about 1650)

Why would you use lean mass for that estimate? The formula asks for bodyweight. <confused>

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

I have not read "Rapid Fat Loss", but when I am trying to lose fat (as I am now) I try (emphasis on "try") to keep daily cals to about 12-1400. (hence my 500 average deficit).

But this isn't a 500 calorie deficit. This is a 1200 calorie deficit! You are eating at about half your estimated maintenance.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

Currently, on this diet I lift 3x a week for about 45-60 minutes. And because my cardio fitness is so low right now (not for fat loss) I also run about 2mi 3x a week.

This is far too much activity for an unassisted male eating at half of maintenance.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

I have seen about 2 lbs a week (average) weight loss for about 7 weeks now.

No doubt! Including exercise, you're running a deficit of over 1500 calories a day!

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

And every time I lift I go to positive failure at 8ish reps (sometimes one more or less rep) for about 3 sets. Then the next week I add weight or a rep or two and go (again) to failure (just cant quite get another rep in full).

Probably not a great idea to push too far into muscular failure while cutting, but this looks reasonable.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

So, I am loosing weight and still gaining strength. Seems to work for me right now. I will probably go for one or two more weeks and add a few more calories. And at that point I will likely reduce reps, add weight to the bar to try to make some bigger muscle gains.

You aren't making much - if any - muscle gains while cutting - you know this, right? You can get stronger without getting bigger; a great deal of strength is neural.

Originally Posted by GainMuscle

I feel good most of the time but do seem to tire a little more easily at the end of my training right now. I think I can do so much on this diet because of my stored energy (fat).

But, as I said, it seems to be working for me right now. I still have a good 10lbs I want to cut (I say weight but really it is % body fat that I look at. I don't really care what my weight is, just how I look). But that cut will have to come down the line as I need a break (metal and physical) from this extremely limited cal intake.

I need a lot of work right now. I was not training for years and just as I started getting back into it- I broke my elbow. So I am just finally recovering from that and training again (I am about 95% of the poundage that I was lifting before the break).

Working hard to get back into a better body

Do you know what your actual maintenance is? What is your current weight and bodyfat%?

Jumping in with a quick observation (anecdotal personal experience) on maintenance and activity.
Bgnd: 52 yrs old, ht 5' 7", mesomorph-endo (47" chest, 33" waist, 38" hips), max wt ever 220#, working out since 2000 and a former "starve yourself lean" dieter vs a low carb, higher fat & protein dieter.

I went to Colorado for a week of hiking with a backpack and full camera kit in Sept of last year. At the time I left my diet was, on average, about 2000 cal /day, 40%P/ 40%C/ 20% F with weight holding steady at 170. Exercise was lifting 4 times/week and treadmill walking (incline) 4 times a week. I would estimate I ate roughly the same during my week in Colorado (I didn't log but over time you begin to get a feel for what you feel like with a given intake) but if anything I ate a little less (maybe, I was eating cookies for dessert and snacks during the day).

I was there for one week and upon my return I found I'd lost 5lbs, but the tape measure confirmed that it had come off of LBM as much as fat because I wasn't getting enough protein (or anything else for maintenance, let alone grow some legs during the hikes).

That's why a log really is a vital part of all this because without knowing how much you're taking in (and weekly is as important as daily) plus how much you weigh and the amount of change of that weight over time you really are just guessing about BMR/maintenance, etc.

Log, calipers, tape measure, scale.

Oh, side note to Built, thank you on the post (diff thread) regarding high fat dieting vs lean fat dieting- my experience in 2001 (lean) vs cutting this time around (higher fat) confirms that the latter is (for me) the easier way to go. I hit 8% in 2001 at age 42 but I was hungry all the time, depressed and ready to kill everyone around me.