Thread: Minimum protein intake to prevent catabolism

That's pretty low calories man. How long are you trying to run that diet?

just a couple of weeks then back up to 1600-1800 I have a very low Maitnenace level.

At your bodyweight, I'd get your protein game up to help prevent catabolism. That is a serious cut, what kind of training are you doing during this time period? Since you've decided to use testotsterone, I was curious why only 130mg a week?

I would keep the reps low and the weights heavy, but reduce the volume by about 2/3.

I'd drop the carbs down to 50g and use those calories for protein.

GramsCalories%-CalsCalories1,355
Fat42.3
380
28
%Saturated11.9
107
8
%Polyunsaturated1.5
13
1
%Monounsaturated3.2
28
2
%Carbohydrate88.5
347
25
%Dietary Fiber23.7
Protein160.5
634
47
%Alcohol0.0
0
0
%

How about these macros

Originally Posted by Built

I'd drop the carbs down to 50g and use those calories for protein.

I think 88 G of Carbs is as low as I can go and still stay on the "doc's" program. His shakes have 27 g each 2 a day. 54 g carbs and my shake has 10 g

My appt is moved to Wednesday and I have dropped some weight and am showing large ketones even eating 100 + g of carbs. I am not telling Doc that "his plan" is putting me into ketosis cause I could eat more carbs per his plan but I choose to replace some of them with another of MY protein shakes. Although I eat tomotoes and Romain lettuce and steamed green beans even some strawberries. and still show moderate on a ketostik
I have been staying around 1300 cals a day and still dropping.

Where are the rest of your fats coming from? The grams of sat, MUFAs and PUFAs don't add up. I'm personally against ketogenic diets but if you are insistent upon it, the sources of fats are extremely important especially with that extremely high protein intake, and if you are on cycle (though 130mg is very, very low). With the low carbs, you are missing out on the phytochemicals and antioxidants those foods provide which help to combat the inflammatory state that high intakes of saturated fats, and omega-6 can induce. Try to get your fats from healthy sources at the least (EVOO, avocado, fatty ocean fish, flax) to keep inflammation down.

And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release. Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.

Originally Posted by AaronPaul.RD

And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release. Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.

Yes, but for those of us that have issues with carb sensitivity, keto diets are a godsend. That and name one other diet where you can eat 1000 calories a day and feel stuffed (referring specifically to a PSMF).

Besides, more important than carbs is maintaining weight on the bar during your lifts, even if that means less reps. If done properly, the amount of LBM lost during a short term cut like the OP is doing should be minimal.

Originally Posted by AaronPaul.RD

Where are the rest of your fats coming from? The grams of sat, MUFAs and PUFAs don't add up. I'm personally against ketogenic diets but if you are insistent upon it, the sources of fats are extremely important especially with that extremely high protein intake, and if you are on cycle (though 130mg is very, very low). With the low carbs, you are missing out on the phytochemicals and antioxidants those foods provide which help to combat the inflammatory state that high intakes of saturated fats, and omega-6 can induce. Try to get your fats from healthy sources at the least (EVOO, avocado, fatty ocean fish, flax) to keep inflammation down.

Keto diets are antiinflammatory - you do know this, don't you? Insulin promotes inflammation. For those of us who are or who have been obese, if we are insulin resistant, we hypersecrete insulin in phase II. But you know this; I'm sure you do.

Originally Posted by AaronPaul.RD

And no amount of protein will totally prevent catabolism without carbs. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body and only CHO's can manipulate its release. Ketosis elevates cortisol which is the most catabolic hormone in the body.

Protein stimulates insulin. Some proteins stimulate insulin very strongly. Whey for instance. In this study, a "preload" of whey stimulated a stronger insulin response than a carbohydrate-containing meal, and controlled blood sugar at least as well as metformin in type II diabetics. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con.../1600.full.pdf

Originally Posted by danzik17

Yes, but for those of us that have issues with carb sensitivity, keto diets are a godsend. That and name one other diet where you can eat 1000 calories a day and feel stuffed (referring specifically to a PSMF).

Besides, more important than carbs is maintaining weight on the bar during your lifts, even if that means less reps. If done properly, the amount of LBM lost during a short term cut like the OP is doing should be minimal.

I wonder why RDs continue to spout the outdated drivel they're taught - don't any of them read?

Originally Posted by jagbender

I think 88 G of Carbs is as low as I can go and still stay on the "doc's" program. His shakes have 27 g each 2 a day. 54 g carbs and my shake has 10 g

My appt is moved to Wednesday and I have dropped some weight and am showing large ketones even eating 100 + g of carbs. I am not telling Doc that "his plan" is putting me into ketosis cause I could eat more carbs per his plan but I choose to replace some of them with another of MY protein shakes. Although I eat tomotoes and Romain lettuce and steamed green beans even some strawberries. and still show moderate on a ketostik
I have been staying around 1300 cals a day and still dropping.

I personally wouldn't have 3 shakes a day... IMO, I feel it's best to limit shakes to post workout only and eat food the rest of the day. Is there a reason your doc wants you to have so many shakes?

5thgeartapped, I take a whey shake before meals - please read the study I posted above. It helps with appetite control.