Thread: Protein intake question

A large portion of the 400 grams you're eating now is probably not being digested and absorbed as it is. Another shake won't make a difference.

Well I'm 220 pounds and under 10% BF, also on AAS. That's 2 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass. Actually, all of it's being used.

Originally Posted by msumuscle

Well I'm 220 pounds and under 10% BF, also on AAS. That's 2 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass. Actually, all of it's being used.

pretty confident about that huh?

Yes, you'll die of protein poisoning. True fact.

Anyway, I highly doubt it will have any negative effects.

over 1.5g x lb is waste imo

Originally Posted by msumuscle

Well I'm 220 pounds and under 10% BF, also on AAS. That's 2 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass. Actually, all of it's being used.

Are you sure? Whey is one of the most quickly absorbed protein sources, and it's widely quoted as being absorbed at 10 grams/hr.

10 grams per hour, 24 hours in a day... do the math. Yeah, bigger guys have bigger guts and can absorb more, but to get to 400 you'd have to be Andre the Giant, methinks.

Originally Posted by ThreeGigs

Are you sure? Whey is one of the most quickly absorbed protein sources, and it's widely quoted as being absorbed at 10 grams/hr.

10 grams per hour, 24 hours in a day... do the math. Yeah, bigger guys have bigger guts and can absorb more, but to get to 400 you'd have to be Andre the Giant, methinks.

The rule of thumb on AAS is to eat two grams of protein per pound of lbm. Your protein synthesis increases on AAS. Ask any of the hardcore guys. Jay cutler gets in close to 700 grams of protein a day.

There are lots of rules of thumb. And then there are studies and simple math. I prefer to believe what the scientific community is saying, rather than what the protein supplement manufacturers are saying.

Like I said, 10 grams an hour, 24 hours in a day. That tells me 240 grams is about the max that's gonna get absorbed by a guy with an average stature.

Originally Posted by ThreeGigs

There are lots of rules of thumb. And then there are studies and simple math. I prefer to believe what the scientific community is saying, rather than what the protein supplement manufacturers are saying.

Like I said, 10 grams an hour, 24 hours in a day. That tells me 240 grams is about the max that's gonna get absorbed by a guy with an average stature.

and what do YOU consider average stature?

Average stature is (for North American males) about five feet 10 inches tall.

How tall are you muscle?

6'0

Originally Posted by ThreeGigs

T
Like I said, 10 grams an hour, 24 hours in a day. That tells me 240 grams is about the max that's gonna get absorbed by a guy with an average stature.

Could you define what you mean by "absorbed"? Does this mean utilized for muscle building processes or adding to caloric intake?

Originally Posted by ThreeGigs

There are lots of rules of thumb. And then there are studies and simple math. I prefer to believe what the scientific community is saying, rather than what the protein supplement manufacturers are saying.

Like I said, 10 grams an hour, 24 hours in a day. That tells me 240 grams is about the max that's gonna get absorbed by a guy with an average stature.

That number is for an average, sedentary adult, not a bodybuilder or weight lifter. Especially one using AAS, 10 grams an hour is ridiculous for one of us to base our protein consumption off of.

over 1.5g x lb is waste imo

Originally Posted by troubador

Could you define what you mean by "absorbed"? Does this mean utilized for muscle building processes or adding to caloric intake?

Absorbed, meaning makes it into your bloodstream from your intestine.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

That number is for an average, sedentary adult, not a bodybuilder or weight lifter. Especially one using AAS, 10 grams an hour is ridiculous for one of us to base our protein consumption off of.

There seems to be a big misunderstanding here.

There is a hard limit to how much protein per hour/day your body can break down and absorb FROM THE INTESTINE, and that limit (according to what I've read) is absolutely not dependent on physical activity levels. It's dependent on the surface area of your intestine, specifically the first two sections of the small intestine, the duodenum and the jejunum (although the ileum does absorb some protein, it's much less than the jejunum, even though the ileum is longer). Your genetics determine your intestinal length and size, thus your body's ability to get protein from your food into your blood has been pretty much determined from birth. It's not like VO2 max, you can't train to improve protein uptake.

The ability of your body to utilize protein, once it's in the bloodstream, is actually greater than its ability to absorb it, although apparently that number does vary quite a bit, from 350 to 500+ grams a day. However to get to that amount, you'd have to be taking AAs intravenously.

Seriously, read the studies out there about whey. 10 grams an hour is how much appears in the bloodstream from the intestine, NOT how much gets used by the body.

That's why I'm saying 400 grams is probably overkill. Even given superior genetics, you're probably not going to be able to absorb more than 300 in a day, and THAT assumes all of your protein is of the 'fast' variety.

Some of us over-consume protein for the enhanced satiety. Just sayin'. I know that's not what the OP was talking about although as an aside, I'd be willing to bet money tha

Some of us over-consume protein for a different reason: enhanced satiety. I know this isn't the OP's concern, but I wanted to bring it up because it speaks to the so-called hard-gainer's dilemma, wherein said hard-gainer consumes greater and greater amounts of protein in a fruitless effort to gain mass. After many months, he will invariably declare he has a "fast metabolism" and "cannot gain weight". The simple answer here is cut protein in half and eat more fat. I've watched many so-called hardgainers gain a lot of weight using this strategy - they don't feel so full, so they're able to eat more.

ThreeGigs, what happens to consumed protein in excess of this amount - is it simply excreted, or does it get used up - as is often described - as "expensive carbohydrate"?

From what I understand, it's excreted. Or what's left after the intestinal flora and fauna get through with it is excreted, anyhow.

We had a discussion in another thread about excess protein 'stressing' kidney function, and I re-examined everything I had read previously about protein intake and the way our bodies process it. In a nutshell, the liver can deaminate more protein per hour (raising blood urea levels) than the kidneys can filter out the waste products. However, the intestines cannot absorb as much as the liver can process, so blood levels of urea don't reach damaging levels *unless* there is reduced kidney function.

As to the AAs that make it into the bloodstream, they are utilized as needed by most tissues, with excess being oxidized by the liver or being used for gluconeogenesis. However, protein uptake by muscle is strongly insulin dependent, and to make matters more complicated, one study indicated that a rise in protein levels promoted a greater amount of protein synthesis in muscle than an elevated steady-state level. i.e. protein synthesis increased upon initial transfusion of AAs, but then tapered off even though blood AA levels were kept constant under infusion. *That* bit of info knocked me for a loop, and changed the way I was thinking.

I also think I found the reasoning behind the 'no more than 30 grams in one sitting' bit of advice that keeps cropping up. If you combine protein absorption speeds with intestinal transit time and gastric emptying rates, you wind up with something around 30 grams of protein being able to be absorbed by the jejunum before the meal passes through to the ileum and large intestine.

All of the above is why I've come to the conclusion that 240-ish grams of protein a day is about the most anyone really *needs* to eat. And I think it's even less than that, because if you think about it.. muscle is about 25% protein. So in theory, 100 grams of protein should make 400 grams of muscle (more, once you figure in glycogen and IMTG). *Maybe* on extreme gear someone could gain a pound of muscle a day, but that's still only using 100 grams of protein, plus whatever else (maybe 60 grams) is needed for regular body maintenance.

And yeah, I think one reason whey is so damned anabolic is simply because using it increases the amount of protein that gets absorbed, compared to other, whole-food sources.

Granted, there are lots and lots of caveats due to the limited scope and focus of the studies available, namely no one has really tried to answer the question of just how much protein can one absorb in a day. Everything is inferred from studies based on smaller, single meal or bolus consumption's effect on blood AA levels, not a total nitrogen intake/excretion monitoring over a longer period of time.

The benefit from pulsing protein intake was indeed a bit of a bombshell when it started making the rounds a few years back, no doubt about it. Still seems to generate a lot of discussion, too.


As I've mentioned, my interest in protein intake has to do with satiety, not anabolism. I'll add that some proteins are quite pro-insulinemic. Whey protein in particular is very insulinimic, so if you want to increase your protein uptake, preload with whey - it'll generate a nice, strong insulin response even in the absence of ingested carbohydrate. I do this before each meal for the insulin and the satiety, but the extension to its promoting muscle growth is evident.