Thread: Bodybuilding and milk

I am also interested in this, but I also believe that if getting hormones from eating food in your blood was so easy there won't be pharmaceutical companies making injectables.

Good point but bodybuilding.com has done alot of milk ones and its all...well.. CONFUSING AS FUCK

There is a lot of goodness in milk . .. Just take into consideration the sugar factor

Originally Posted by rezkon

Some people have told me that milk is bad when your bodybuilding due to the estrogen and other things can give you '' bitch tits '' But i dont know if i should trust as milk has alot of good things to help me bulk advice?

rezkon,

Chocolate Milk Post Workout Beverage

Research indicates that chocloate milk is a good post workout beverage. It contains about the right carbohydrate to protein ratio (4 grams of carbohydrate to 1 gram of protein).

Caseinate:Whey Ratio

The content of milk is approximately 80% caseinate to 20% whey. In a post workout beverage, a better percentage would most likely be the reverse of that...80% whey to 20% whey.

Whey Protein Post Workout

As your most likely aware of, you want to consume a protein that is quickly digested post workout.

Whey Digestion Time

Whey is digested in about 120 minutes. Less if you ingest a hydrolyzed whey protein.

Caseinate Slow Digestion Time

Caseinate is digested over a longer time period, between 3-5 hours.

That makes is a great protein before bedtime or during the day.

Caseinate Part of The Post Workout Beverage

Reseach shows that adding some caseinate allows you to enhance your recovery from your workout much better.

Combining whey and caseinate in your post workout beverage is a one-two punch combination.

With that said, it's milk is still a good post workout beverage.

Insulin The Anabolic Hormone

Insulin is one of the most anabolic/muscle building hormones in the body.

The Insulin Index of Milk

The Insulin Index is the latest method of measuring foods that trigger the release of insulin.

Milk is shown to be a very high Insulin Index food.

That is exactly what you want in a post workout beverage. It allows your to recovery faster and increase muscle mass.

The Dark Side of Insulin

As Jay Robb (nutritionist) stated, "Insulin is a Fat Maker..."

Insulin

1) Blocks body fat from being burned as fuel.

2) Increases fat storage when food are eaten that trigger high levels of insulin to be released.

Bodybuilders and Milk

In cutting for contest, bodybuilders have screamed for decades not to drink milk in the cutting phase.

Empirical Wisdom

Science now back up the bodybuilders statement.

Milk For Increasing Muslce Mass

With that in mind, milk is a great food for increasing muscle mass. However, it can also increase body fat.

Drink and Monitor

If you want to incease muscle mass, add it to your diet. And as with anything in your diet, see how it works for you.

Gynocomastia

I have never seen anyone get "bitch tits" from drinking milk.

Kenny Croxdale

hey u got some good points there, thanks for the info

hey he does
So bulking.. its ok, cutting..its bad..seems pretty easy kinda... :P
Btw Kenny Croxdale should had Yoda as a Reputation.

High calorie fluids are going to be a horrible idea for a cut and acceptable for bulking.

The one thing I would argue would possibly be the importance of a quick digesting protein after you train. Guys I know have the greatest gains using a slow protein like steak with potatoes.

Recovery is an all day thing. That 'post-workout window' that they talk up and down was found in a study using older men who have inefficient digestive systems.

i am 17 at the moment how long do you belive i had after pre workout as im out of protein atm but i would like to know how quickly to get out off gym after workout

Originally Posted by rezkon

i am 17 at the moment how long do you belive i had after pre workout as im out of protein atm but i would like to know how quickly to get out off gym after workout

If you're training 4-5 days a week I wouldn't stay in the gym for longer than an hour. Unless you're tacking some cardio on the end of your workout or something.

I drink the heck out of some milk big glass in the morning big one before bed too. It's working for me.

Milk has a massive amount of quality nutrition in a 8oz glass. The fear of most propel in bodybuilding is the high sugar levels. If you are hooked on milk then I would suggest trying Almond milk, it has almost the same macro nutrient levels, but has lower calories because of the decrease in sugar. I go through about a 1/2 gal a day of the vanilla unsweetened Almond Milk Coconut milk is also very good but my wife hates the slight coconut flavor so I didn't last long in our place.

Actually elevates IGF-1 levels. Take that how you want.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

Recovery is an all day thing.

SilentBob,

Recovery does require time. However, research shows you can enhance it if you are pro-active and ingest a high glycemic index carbohydrate with a quickly absorbed protein.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

That 'post-workout window' that they talk up and down was found in a study using older men who have inefficient digestive systems.

Post Workout Recovery For EVERYONE

A post workout recovery beverage has been deomonstrated to enhace recovery for everyone, especially athletes.

Insulin Shuttle

One of the things insulin does is shuttle nutrients to the muscles.

Insulin's Anabolic Effect.

As noted, Insulin is one of the (if not the most anabolic hormone of the body). Thus, spiking insulin after a workout is effective with increasing muscle mass.

Nutrient Timing

One of the best easy to read research books on this is Nutrient Timing by Dr John Ivy (Exercise Physiologist/University of Texas).

Bodybuilders Injecting Insulin

That one of the reasons some bodybuilders inject insulin post workout.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

SilentBob

High GI like potatoes. A longer term sustained supply of aminos from a piece of meat will always be superior to a powder. Meat has quick and slow proteins, not to mention cholesterol for hormone production after SFW.

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing should link to a fulltext of the study mentioned.

And I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying that what you eat all day is vastly more important than your postworkout supplement/drink. It matters very little if you have a 4:1 CHO:PRO drink after you train if you're eating like sh*t the rest of the day.

Focusing on one aspect of a diet/training routine instead of the big picture is why so many people fail to achieve their goals.

great details about milk kenny,

I personally drink lots of milk and mix almost all protein drinks with it, only time I don't is if I've let my diet slip for the day on those I go with water just to trim off some calories

skim when trying to lose or maintain weight and whole when bulking is my norm

I know a couple guys that have done the gallon of milk a day thing both had pretty good results from it. One of them was pretty broke at the time so milk was pretty much his main meal source. Would I recommend this to everyone... NO but the hard gainer types may want to consider the gallon of milk a day

GOMAD ftw

I have started drinking Smart Balance HeartRight fat free milk. Only fat free milk that i I have tried that doesn't taste watered down. I know some will suggest that the fat that milk contains doesn't need to be eliminated. I drink it for the other potential benefits of the plant sterols and omega 3s to help my cholesterol, plus the added benefit of 25% more protein and calcium per serving. It isn't cheap so i use it in addition to regular 2% milk.

^^^
What Kenny Croxdale said way up there.

Don't forget in years past before the days of specific scientific supplements of this protein, that protein, this enzyme, that amino... carb timing, creatine, etc... some damn fine bodies were built on three squares and gallons of whole milk per day...and really, didn't those guys look better, more human than most today? Well, in my opinion they did anyway.

Just remember the insulin response from the carbs in the milk. Great for building muscle but over time, constant bombardment with insulin is not good for some of us. I personally drink about 4 cups a day while trying to gain but when it starts bothering my MS (carbs, sugars, insulin spikes... bad for autoimmune conditions) I have to cut it out and increase my vitamin D supplements.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

High GI like potatoes. A longer term sustained supply of aminos from a piece of meat will always be superior to a powder. Meat has quick and slow proteins, not to mention cholesterol for hormone production after SFW.

SilentBob,

Milk

The same pretty much applies to milk. As you are probabaly aware, milk is composed of 20% whey and 80% caseinate.

Whey The Fast Protein

Whey digestion time is approximately 120 minutes.

Caseinate The Slow Protein

Caseinate's digestion time is approximately 300 minutes.

That combining whey and caseinate in one pre and post workout beverage is now recommended.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing should link to a fulltext of the study mentioned.

Great article. Thanks.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

And I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying that what you eat all day is vastly more important than your postworkout supplement/drink. It matters very little if you have a 4:1 CHO:PRO drink after you train if you're eating like sh*t the rest of the day.

"Well begun is half done."

Certainly, what you consume during the remainer of the day is important.

However, "What you eat all day is" not more important.

Heart Attack, A Hyperbolic Example

Think of training as being somewhat like having a heart attack.

When would be the most critical time do minimize the risk? Before, during, immediately after or a few hours after?

Obviously, if you knew you were going to have a heart attack, taking evasive measures prior, during and immediately after are going to minimize the risk.

What you do in the hours after is important. However, it not as important as what you do prior, during and immediately after it occurs.

Same With Training

The same is true with training.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

Focusing on one aspect of a diet/training routine instead of the big picture is why so many people fail to achieve their goals.

Successful individuals do what other won't.

Focuing on one aspect is one of the reason's individuals don't hit there goals. I would say it the main reason.

The main reason most individuals fail is that they aren't willing to make the sacrifices to get to their goal.

"What are you prepared to do?"
(Sean Connery in The Untouchables, movie)

Sean Connery's comment sums up why some are successful and some aren't.

Kenny Croxdale

[QUOTE=.V.;2461119]^^^
What Kenny Croxdale said way up there.

Don't forget in years past before the days of specific scientific supplements of this protein, that protein, this enzyme, that amino... carb timing, creatine, etc... some damn fine bodies were built on three squares and gallons of whole milk per day...and really, didn't those guys look better, more human than most today? Well, in my opinion they did anyway.

V

Great Point

Empircal evidence often comes before scientific and trumps science, as well.

A great example of this is...

Bumble Bee's Can't Fly

Decades ago, an engineer (scientist) examined the wings/body structure of bumble bees.

Wings Too Small For It To Fly

That was his conclusion. Unfortuntately, someone forgot to tell the bumble bee.

So much for science.

Re-Evaluting The Bumble Bee's

The engineer's new evaluation found that the bumble bee rotated it wings in flight. By doing so, it was able to fly.

Bodybuilder's Cutting

With that empirical evidence in mind, I believe bodybuilders practical experience in avoiding milk in cutting is right.

Gaining Muscle

I have also found/seen adding milk to your diet increase muscle mass.

Originally Posted by .V.

Just remember the insulin response from the carbs in the milk. Great for building muscle but over time, constant bombardment with insulin is not good for some of us. I personally drink about 4 cups a day while trying to gain but when it starts bothering my MS (carbs, sugars, insulin spikes... bad for autoimmune conditions) I have to cut it out and increase my vitamin D supplements.

Insulin Responce From Amino Acids

Some amino acids also create an insulin reponse along with carbohydrates.

Leucine speficially triggers a insulin response.

Whey has been show to increase insulin. That most likely because appoximately 10% of whey is composed of Leucine.

Thus, 20 grams of whey would give you 2 grams of Leucine. That is a substancial amount of Leucine.

Milk A Low Glycemic Index Food

Milk is shown to be a low glycemic index food.

Thus, one would assume that it does not trigger the release of insulin.

However, milk appears to be insulinogenic

Milk The High Insulin Index Food

The Insulin Index indicates that milk definitely creates an insulin response. Milk provide a good amount of Leucine, as well.

That is one of the reason's that milk is now being touted as a great post workout beverage, specifically chocolate milk.

The Paradox

So, milk and whey (by products of milk) trigger the release of insulin.

However, they do NOT appear to increase blood glucose.

In fact, whey protein/milk has been shown reduce blood glucose.

Take two asprin and call me in the morning.

The more I think about this, the more my head hurts...

Implications

Do amino acids (milk, whey, etc) allow you to spike insulin levels to increase muscle mass WITHOUT the ill effects of increasing blood glucose levels?

Kenny Croxdale

Here's my take on milk. Humans are the only mamals who drink milk after infancy. Not only that but we drink it from other animals. That doesn't seem natural to me. Just saying

Originally Posted by gymrat09091974

Here's my take on milk. Humans are the only mamals who drink milk after infancy. Not only that but we drink it from other animals. That doesn't seem natural to me. Just saying

duh...they dont have any money.....seriously that therory really makes no sense,i know its not your therory,im not bashing you.there is a dozen reasons we drink milk and animals dont,...after infancy.

Humans are the only mamals that have evoled in such a way as to harvest milk making it available on a daily basis!

i baithe in milk

Originally Posted by gymrat09091974

Here's my take on milk. Humans are the only mamals who drink milk after infancy. Not only that but we drink it from other animals. That doesn't seem natural to me. Just saying

That's like saying I saw a dog eat some shit, must be natural, guess I'll give it a try too

Many mammals after infancy will still greedily gulp down whatever milk they're given, so not sure where you get this whole unnatural idea, I've even seen that many mammals will steal milk away from younger siblings if the mother allows it, so unnatural no, lack of supply yes...

if we wanted to limit our diet intake to what we see consumed in nature there wouldn't really be any limit

Humans are also the only animals that cook their food, just saying


milk ftw, I'm addicted to the stuff really. I don't feel I'm done eating until I drink some milk :P

Originally Posted by Digitalash

Humans are also the only animals that cook their food, just saying


milk ftw, I'm addicted to the stuff really. I don't feel I'm done eating until I drink some milk :P

good point... guess its unnatural to cook your food then too, guess I'll have to go vegan or something...