Thread: Either Build Muscle OR Lose Fat?

I think you can do both generally...but it is much slower...and how effective it is probably depends on how long you've been training. Someone new to fitness is going to have an easier time adding muscle and dropping fat.

You can, if:

a. You're extremely fat.

2. You're a new lifter.

d. You're on AAS.




You can't (put on anything significant), if:

1. You're an experienced lifter.

c. You're already quite lean (~12-15% and below).

Originally posted by Karlito
I'm at the point where I want to do BOTH before summer, both gain lean muscle AND lose the remaining 15 lbs i have left....am I fooling myself?

What do you mean by 15lbs you have "left"?

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You can, if:

a. You're extremely fat.
2. You're a new lifter.
d. You're on AAS.


You can't (put on anything significant), if:

1. You're an experienced lifter.
c. You're already quite lean (~12-15% and below).

I agree.

I agree too...nice post

What do you mean by 15lbs you have "left"?

I've only been on this weightlifting and diet plan six weeks without ever having done serious lifting before. I probably have around 15 lbs of extra fat left, primarily around the waist that I'd like to lose while I add muscle....

I'd like to hit my six pack here early on so I know where "zero line" is, and how hard it is to get there (low bf, visible abs, slightly cut) if that makes any sense....

Sure, you can do both, but it will be slower for both, hence the reasoning to do one or the other. Kind of like trying to walk forwards and backwards at the same time, not a 1:1 relationship but similar.

Originally posted by Mudge
Kind of like trying to walk forwards and backwards at the same time, not a 1:1 relationship but similar.

wouldn't that be impossible?

it would be either or, you cannot go forward and backwards simultaneously.

yes you just stay still... DUH!

Originally posted by Prince
it would be either or, you cannot go forward and backwards simultaneously.

Thats why I only said it was sort of like, obviously not a 1:1 comparison. If you do the splits you can do it once right? Thats kind of like going forwards and backwards

Meaning you are telling the body to do two things, lose weight and gain weight, so obviously there has to be a compromise, or in the case of extremes where the body would love to dump that weight because you eat out of hand like TCD mentioned.

If someone is willing to live with slower fat loss, just clean up the diet and keep working out, but no need to starve yourself I am willing to slowly trade fat for muscle by not changing my calories, just eating the same things and trying to continue to gain strength/muscle. I am cutting my sodium down though.

Originally posted by Mudge


Meaning you are telling the body to do two things, lose weight and gain weight, so obviously there has to be a compromise,

For that to work you need to distinguish between fat and muscle. You can't gain "weight" and lose "weight" at the same time...but you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time ...and your bodyweight may even stay the same (for a time).

So being only six weeks in to a program...it is still possible for me to ditch this small spare tire AND continue making some steady gains provided I'm eating correctly and working out well?

So being only six weeks in to a program...it is still possible for me to ditch this small spare tire AND continue making some steady gains provided I'm eating correctly and working out well?

In my opinion, yes. I have been able to gain muscle and loose fat on a cut by manipulating my macros and eating really clean.

Originally posted by w8lifter
For that to work you need to distinguish between fat and muscle. You can't gain "weight" and lose "weight" at the same time...but you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time ...and your bodyweight may even stay the same (for a time).

good post W8

Originally posted by Karlito
So being only six weeks in to a program...it is still possible for me to ditch this small spare tire AND continue making some steady gains provided I'm eating correctly and working out well?

I wouldn't say "steady" gains.

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You can, if:
3. You're on AAS.

and I was about to disagree

seriously, though, I think/know it's possible, but not common.
A. It all depends on how your body adjusts to changes in diet
--1. keep a low carb diet long enough, and your metabolism will normalize again @ that diet.
--2. timing is everything w/ carbs IMO

B. training
I think that a non-(or low)-cardio heavy training is still the way to go, only changing diet

JMO

I wouldn't say "steady" gains.

Well, you know what I mean....

I started 6 weeks ago...I don't want to be eating my ass off as summertime approaches, I'd like to get cut and add some lean muscle too, then focus on bulking in the fall....

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You can, if:

a. You're extremely fat.

2. You're a new lifter.

d. You're on AAS.




You can't (put on anything significant), if:

1. You're an experienced lifter.

c. You're already quite lean (~12-15% and below).

Exactly. And if you are 1 or c, you can be far more productive, over the course of a year, if you adhere to one specific goal at a time.

The reason, is simple. To gain appreciable muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn. To lose fat you need to burn more than you eat.

Good to see ya 'round, bro

Thanks!

The reason, is simple. To gain appreciable muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn. To lose fat you need to burn more than you eat.

But at the same time, the more muscle you're adding, the more calories you're burning at rest....

So is it in fact EASIER to get cut after you've put on serious muscle?

Originally posted by Karlito
But at the same time, the more muscle you're adding, the more calories you're burning at rest....

So is it in fact EASIER to get cut after you've put on serious muscle?

The later question is a true statement, but probably for reasons you are not considering.

Define "cut". The only way to get "cut" is to lose BF. How much muscle you do or do not have is irrelavant to how "cut" one is.

Its easier to get "cut" (i.e. leaner) when you have more muscle mass for the simple reason that muscle increases your base metabolic rate, thus you burn more clas when resting.

So, I do not understand the implications of your first statement, in this context, although I would agree with what you said.

The point of what I wrote, is unrelated to your comment and question.

If you burn 2000 or 3000 or 4000 cals a day is not the point. Whatever you burn, generally, you need to consumer MORE than that amount to add appreciable muscle (except under the circumstances Rob mentioned) and you need to consume less than that amount to lose BF.

Well what I meant is that if I kept my diet the same while gaining muscle, I'd wind up naturally cut as my body would be burning more calories with its new found muscle than I was expending....

So it's fair to assume I could stay on this healthy diet for the spring and summer, and get a little built and cut, then worry about bulking this fall? Only having been working out for 6 weeks puts me in Chicken Daddy's '2' group of new lifters?

Like I said I don't want to start bulking now that summer's coming....as I really want to see this six pack, just to achieve it as a goal.

The point is, when you diet, you don't have to forgo the notion of not gaining, or losing muscle. And yes, this is particularly true in your case since (1) you are new to training and (2) you only have to lose a little.

Given your goals (long and short term) your best bet would be to eat slighly less than maintenance calories. That way you will lose the fat you want. Doing so, all the while lifting hard. You will likely add *some* muscle (since you are new to training) though not as much if you had been eating differently. Then, after the summer, and you have some training under your belt, you can switch to slightly above maintenance cals and look to put on muscle while gaining a bit of fat (not an excuse to gain a ton).

Originally posted by Karlito
Well what I meant is that if I kept my diet the same while gaining muscle, I'd wind up naturally cut as my body would be burning more calories with its new found muscle than I was expending....

I understand your point here, and theoretically, it seems plausible, at least to some extent...assuming that you could continue to gain muscle with no change in diet. Personally, I wish this were the case. Because if it were true, I could compete in the next year or two.
However, (and please correct me TP,DP,TCD et al) to rely on muscle gain and/or the increase in metabolism due to this gain as the sole means of decreasing bodyfat levels would take a very long time.....and only under the most optimal circumstances.

Thanks guys...looks like I'm on the right track.

I guess just something about the science of dieting and lifting seems odd to me.

Take a man, who's 20 lbs overweight. Have him ingest the perfect amount of calories (perfect maintenence), with all the necessary nutrients (healthy fats, high protein, slow burning carbs). Have him sleep well, and drink plenty of water. He'll still grow, yes? Probably for a while. And he'll probably lose that 20 lbs given long enough too.....just slower.

Yet if you do a google search you can find plenty (just as in this thread) who say it's impossible, and equate it to trying to sit and stand at the same time. Yet this only really applies to weightlifters who have been doing it for a while. So the answer to the question is different depending on who's asking it.....

So if some out of shape guy hits the web and asks "can I lose fat and gain muscle at the same time", the answer would be yes...it's possible.

But if a lifter or very active person, whose body is already conditioned and bulked, with very little fat already asks the question,the answer would be no, because the body has done as much as it can with what it has been given, and needs added calories and more protein in order to see improved gains....

Am I understanding this correctly?

Basically, yes.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Exactly. And if you are 1 or c, you can be far more productive, over the course of a year, if you adhere to one specific goal at a time.

The reason, is simple. To gain appreciable muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn. To lose fat you need to burn more than you eat.

I agree with this totally. If you can can gain muscle while loosing fat if already lean, you are one lucky sumbeach!