Protein requirement

**Josh** · 07-13-2003, 08:44 AM

Hi all, I often hear the guideline that we should consume minimal 1 gr of protein per lb of LBM (or 2.2 gr protein / kg LBM). I also have read that eating too much protein will raise insulin as well and turn the protein into fat. Finally I have read about maximum protein consumed per meal is 50 gr. But how exactly do we figure out the optimal amount of protein for our body? Between min 2.2 gr/kg LBM/day to max 50 grs/meal, how do we determine the optimum amount?

- Josh

**Robboe** · 07-13-2003, 08:55 AM

1-1.5g/lb BW.

You could go higher if you can afford it and need the calories, but i don't see much point unless supplementing with an androgen.

**Jodi** · 07-13-2003, 09:11 AM

Your liver does convert protein to glucose but in very minimal amounts and not enough to be concerned about. As TCD, 1-1.5G per lb of BW is sufficient.

**Josh** · 07-13-2003, 07:27 PM

So, am I correct to understand that the range for protein per day is between min 2.2 gr / kg LBM to max 3.3 gr / kg BW? Anything below min is not sufficient, and anything beyond max is too much?

Moreover, if I am to follow NHE or the sticky post in this forum which limit (active) carbs consumption to 60-75 grs per day, would this means the rest of the cals should be derived from fat? Because when I did the calculation, I found that the resulting diet is rather high in fat, mod protein and low carbs (not high protein mod fat as I thought it should be). Please advise. Thanks.

- Josh

**Jodi** · 07-14-2003, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by Josh
So, am I correct to understand that the range for protein per day is between min 2.2 gr / kg LBM to max 3.3 gr / kg BW? Anything below min is not sufficient, and anything beyond max is too much?

Moreover, if I am to follow NHE or the sticky post in this forum which limit (active) carbs consumption to 60-75 grs per day, would this means the rest of the cals should be derived from fat? Because when I did the calculation, I found that the resulting diet is rather high in fat, mod protein and low carbs (not high protein mod fat as I thought it should be). Please advise. Thanks.

- Josh

No, the diet should be high protein, mod fat, low carb. The other as you mentioned is a Ketosis diet. How are you figuring this? What is your current bodyweight?

**Josh** · 07-14-2003, 08:02 AM

Body weight is 65 kgs, fat is 20.5%, so LBM is 51.7 kgs = 113.7 lbs. I am taking in 20xlbs LBM cals = 20x113.7 = 2274 cals. Let's say I eat protein 3 gr / kg LBM (which is already above the min limit), this means I eat 3x51.7 = 155 g protein x 4 cals = 620 cals from protein. Now let's say I eat 60 gr of active carbs (which is the upper limit of carbs per day), this means 60 g carbs x 4 cals = 240 cals from carbs. So the remaining cals 2274 - 620 - 240 = 1414 cals are from fat. So the P:C:F breakdown is 620 : 240 : 1414 = approximately 30% : 10% : 60%. This is clearly a high fat, med protein, low carbs diet. Your correction, please.

- Josh

**Jodi** · 07-14-2003, 08:05 AM

Its protein grams x body weight not LBM!

**ZECH** · 07-14-2003, 08:19 AM

Example: If you weigh 150lbs
150x1.5=225g protein

**LAM** · 07-14-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Josh
Hi all, I often hear the guideline that we should consume minimal 1 gr of protein per lb of LBM (or 2.2 gr protein / kg LBM). I also have read that eating too much protein will raise insulin as well and turn the protein into fat. Finally I have read about maximum protein consumed per meal is 50 gr. But how exactly do we figure out the optimal amount of protein for our body? Between min 2.2 gr/kg LBM/day to max 50 grs/meal, how do we determine the optimum amount?

- Josh

I go by LBM not total BW. fat doesn't need protein

**Skib** · 07-14-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by dg806
Example: If you weigh 150lbs
150x1.5=225g protein

that's so much protein

i weigh about 195 meaning i'd need to eat about 300 g of protein a day

i'm lucky if i get 150 g

i've been trying to eat more eggs, tuna and chicken lately but it's hard to eat all 3 everyday... eating too many eggs makes me feel sick, i can't eat tuna everyday and chicken is good but expensive to be eating everyday...

meh

i guess i'll just have to deal without maximum results

**Josh** · 07-15-2003, 01:33 AM

I tend to agree with LAM to calculate the protein requirement based on LBM, not BW.

But let's say I calculate based on BW. With my stat above, this means eating 1.5x143 = 214.5 g protein = 858 cals. Carbs remains 60 g active carbs = 240 cals. Thus the remaining 1176 cals is from fat. This translate to P:C:F = 858:240:1176 = approximately 38%:10%:52%, still a high fat mod protein low carb diet. So, how do I suppose to create a high protein diet in this situation? Please kindly advise.

- Josh

**Jodi** · 07-15-2003, 02:20 AM

Why only 60G Carbs. I don't understand where your coming up with these numbers?

What kind of ratio you looking for. If you go 50/30/20 with BWx12 cals

Cals: 2145
Protein: 268
Fat: 72
Carb: 107

**papaoso2k1** · 07-15-2003, 07:31 AM

I dont understand why you people eat so little carbs?? Is it possible to gain muscle eating only 100g carbs?

**Josh** · 07-15-2003, 09:05 AM

Refer to the thread "High Fat/Protein, Low Carb Diet" in this forum (also linked in the sticky "Best Nutritional Threads" at the top of this forum), there mentioned the limit of active carbs of 25 g/meal or 75 g/day. I myself take the limit of 60 g/day from Rob Faigin's book "Natural Hormonal Enhancement". CMIIW, but in my understanding this low carb limit is to ensure stability (and no spikes) of insulin, where insulin is the hormon that triggers fat storage. So by limiting carbs and controlling insulin level we attempt to turn our bodies from sugar-burners to fat-burners.

For my own particular condition, I have been suffering from too high value of triglyceride, which I know can be rectified by reducing my carbs intake. So following the above low limit is very attractive to me in order to solve my triglyceride problem. Also I have a problem with high uric acid, which I understand can be corrected by avoiding red meat or in general by eating less protein. That is why I was looking for the limit of protein which was not too high (so that I can solve my uric acid problem) but high enough for building muscles. But when I found these limits, I come to realize that this would translate to a high fat diet, which I doubt is correct. That is why now I am raising this issue in this thread. Your advises are greatly appreciated.

- Josh

**Jodi** · 07-15-2003, 09:26 AM

Yes if you limit your carbs and limit your protein then of course you end up with a very high fat diet. You can't restrict both and expect to keep fat lower, not unless you want to go into starvation mode. I would not suggest you lowering your carbs below 90g or you will not have any energy at all. I don't know how to help you Josh if you want to limit both Carbs and Protein because you do end up with a very high fat diet

Sorry.

**leg_press** · 07-15-2003, 12:18 PM

Hang on, whoa, whoa whoa whoa WWWHHHOOOAAA.

I was told that to weight train you needed, a high protein, very high carb, v low fat and med calorie diet. Saying that though with the hours and days that I work, a friend of mine who trains just said ," Eat of much as you can, of whatever you can whenever you can." Then he said to train and burn off the fat whenever I could

**Jodi** · 07-15-2003, 03:10 PM

There are many different approaches.

**Josh** · 07-15-2003, 07:33 PM

Ya...I guess it all comes down to what works for our own bodies. For a long time I thought there exists a single diet guideline which is most effective for each specific goal (for instance, a specific diet for bulking, another diet for cutting, etc, etc). But now I think this view is incorrect. Whatever P:C:F compositions, whatever limit amounts for each macronutrient, all these can work for whatever goals, as long as our bodies can use them towards these goals. One diet may work wonderfully for a person for a goal, the exact diet may not work at all for another person for the same goal. But then this means all diet books and guidelines are just for information, everybody is left to his own experimentations to find what diet is best for him and his goal. CMIIW, please.

- Josh

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