Need some advice, not losing fat!!!

**BigRedCat** · 08-02-2003, 08:17 PM

Hi,
I recently found this board and it looks pretty cool. I am in need of some advice. Here is a little background on me:

I have been on Elite and other boards for years so I am not a newbie by any means but for the past 2 years I have not been able to drop fat. I eat very clean and have my workouts in order yet no fat loss. I am starting to think I may have Hypothyroidism. I have been through some extremely stressful times the past couple years(including very bad sciatica/piriformis syndrome) so I assume my cortisol levels are through the roof. I started taking PS(Phosphatidylserine) last week in hopes of lowering my cortisol levels. I also started taking Piracetam and choline a couple weeks ago and that has helped me keep my mood level and has improved my outlook in general.

I am 30 years old, 5'11" and have been fluctuating between 187-194 pounds for the past two years. My bodyfat is an estimated 15-18%(calipers). I just cant seem to lose that waist fat. My waist was 32" just over two years ago and I blimped up to 35-36" which is how it has stayed since. I can really tell my metabolism has slowed. I used to work outside at a manual labor type job in the hot sun so that probably kept my fat down but now I work at a call center sitting on my ass all day. Plus, I use to train martial arts all the time when I was younger and have not had the time to do that the past few years. I have tried all sorts of differant low carb approaches,anabolic diet,T-Dawg diet etc with no real results. I still eat low carb but without any fat loss. I have gotten stronger over the past few years but no fat loss. Here is an example of a days diet for me:

1 scoop low carb Isopure
1 cup oats
piracetam
choline
PS(400mg)
multi-vitamin
Labrada charge

1 can low sodium tuna
1 slice flax seed bread(sometimes I just eat the tune by itself)

small salad with 1oz feta cheese, bacon bits and 1 tbsp of oil and vinegar dressing
1 scoop low carb isopure
labrada charge
Piracetam
PS(400mg)

Filet Mignon with 1 cup green beans
salad with 1oz feta cheese, bacon bits and 1 tbsp or oil and vinegar dressing

1 scoop low carb isopure
1 tbsp of natty pb pr small amount of mixed nuts.

I try to keep it around 2200 cals a day.

I try and drink a gallon of water a day if possible and I usually have 1-2 cheat meals on the weekends. The only time I drink alcohol is 1-2 drinks on the weekends. I used to drink allot when I was younger and never added a pound of fat. Now if I did that I would be a huge fat ass!

As for my workout, I have been doing the following:

3 day split weights, 3-4 days cardio(1 longer slow session and 2-3 HITT).

Am I doing something wrong? Do I have a thyroid problem? I am getting frustrated since I have been busting my ass in the gym and eating clean for a long time with no visible results at all. Hell, even my arms have stayed at 16.5", I just feel like I am wasting my time or something isn't right. Should I hit cardio 6 days a week or what? I am open to whatever needs to be done at this point.

Any advice would be VERY VERY appreciated.
-BigRedCat

p.s.- sorry such a long ass post!!

**Jodi** · 08-03-2003, 08:30 AM

No don't do more cardio you are only going to lost LBM with that much cardio. Remember each pound of muscle burns up to 50 more calories a day. Cardio is not going to make you leaner.

I can see where we can make some changes but the first thing I need to know from you is what kind of plan would you like to follow.

High Protein/Low Carb/Mod Fat
Hight Protein/Mod Carb/Mod Fat
Mod Protein/Mod Carb/Low Fat

I can help you work up something but first I need to know your preference.

**BigRedCat** · 08-03-2003, 04:53 PM

Hi Jodi, thanks for the response. It doesn't matter to me really. I have tried all three. I prefer hi pro,mod carb,mod fat. A couple weeks ago I tried eating nothing but shakes and udo's. I did it for 5 days. I would probably have to do that for a week to see any results.

**BigRedCat** · 08-05-2003, 12:05 PM

Well, any ideas for a sample diet? I am thinking I should cut down to 1800 cals a day and see if that helps. What do you think?

**Jodi** · 08-05-2003, 12:29 PM

No I don't do sample diets but I did work something up for you.

You could try 40/40/20

2280 Cals
Protein: 228G
Carbs: 228
Fat: 50

Divide that up into 5 meals per day preferby the last meal of the day consisting of only protein and fat.

**BigRedCat** · 08-05-2003, 01:05 PM

That is the ratio and amounts I have been already running for months, which is why I am thinking about dropping the cals furthur.

**Par Deus** · 08-05-2003, 01:57 PM

Read my leptin/fed state articles:

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.ph...eID=3&pageID=51

http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=150&issueID=14

The first is about 1.5 years old, so I no longer agree 100% with everything, but it gives a very good introduction to the concepts.

The second one is only 2 months old and reflects my current views.

**BigRedCat** · 08-05-2003, 05:33 PM

Thanks Par Deus, I didn't know you were on this board, I have seen you on Elite. The first link doesn't work but the second one does. Any other advice for me? Do you think I should get a thyroid test?

**Par Deus** · 08-05-2003, 08:33 PM

I don't think a thyroid test would be a bad idea, at all.

As for the link that does not work:

http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=95&issueID=14

Go down to Issue # 3

**crackerjack414** · 08-05-2003, 09:12 PM

honestly bro id bulk for a while then dietin down again to shock your body into doing what u want it to

**BigRedCat** · 08-05-2003, 10:29 PM

No, I need to lose this fat before I bulk. I hate being this fat, it destroys my confidence. I have never really had any substantial fat until the past couple years. A 36" waist is 3" too big for me! There has to be a reason I have been unable to lose this fat. Seeing as I have been living through some major stress I suspect it has to do with my cortisol level and my lowered metabolism. I used to be one of those guys that said things like "I could never get fat, look at me, I am skinny!"

Karma's a bitch! I could go on the MDMA/dance all night diet! ha.

**firebat** · 08-06-2003, 02:53 AM

what happens if you do nothing but cardio? youd lose all the fat but you would be weak?

**Jodi** · 08-06-2003, 03:00 AM

Just the opposite, you'd lose all the muscle and still retain alot of fat.

**BigRedCat** · 08-06-2003, 03:33 AM

Spot on Jodi! I have tried that, lost some muscle and not enough fat to make it noticeable. If I did major cardio and no lifting I would drop fat eventually, along with all the muscle I have. I would be a skinny 160 pounder! I would rather lift than do cardio(like most of us). I have been doing HITT cardio at night. I dont do cardio 1st thing when I wake up, does it make that much differance WHEN you do it? I work at night so I work out after work. Is working out/doing cardio later at night hampering my progress? I dont see how it could but you never know.

**Jenny** · 08-06-2003, 03:39 AM

You get a better "afterburn" with morning workouts, it will speed up metabolism a bit for several hours. If you do it at night, only a few hours before bed you don't get that same effect since your body will cut that off as soon as you fall asleep..

Your glycogen is also lower in the morning after a whole night of sleeping and the body will use fat from fat stores sooner.

At least this is what I've been taught, opinions welcome

**Jodi** · 08-06-2003, 04:42 AM

IMO, I don't think it matters. Calories burned are calories burned.

I never do cardio in the morning because 1. I'm too freakin hungry to wait an hour and 2. I'm way too tired and the last thing on my mind is running. I'm still reaching for the coffee. I prefer to w/o (including cardio) at night. Thats just me though

**Jenny** · 08-06-2003, 05:47 AM

Well no, no major difference

And if you're doing your cardio after weights the glycogen levels will be pretty low anyway..

**Par Deus** · 08-06-2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by BigRedCat
No, I need to lose this fat before I bulk. I hate being this fat, it destroys my confidence. I have never really had any substantial fat until the past couple years. A 36" waist is 3" too big for me! There has to be a reason I have been unable to lose this fat. Seeing as I have been living through some major stress I suspect it has to do with my cortisol level and my lowered metabolism. I used to be one of those guys that said things like "I could never get fat, look at me, I am skinny!"

Karma's a bitch! I could go on the MDMA/dance all night diet! ha.

In addition to the leptin stuff that has been mentioned, cortisol could indeed be your problem, as it promotes adipocyte differentiation and triglyceride storage, particularly in visceral adipose tissue (which your waist size indicates you might have a fair amount of), and to a lesser extent, SubQ abdominal fat.

In addition, previous drug use would make you hypersensitive to to stress (i.e. higher cortisol output) , as well as insensitive to the negative feedback inhibition for shutting it off.

If it is not pimping too much, I will mention that our Ab-Solved product is specifically designed to target this problem (the active ingredient, 7-oxo-DHEA, inhibits conversion of inactive cortisone to active cortisol)

**OceanDude** · 08-14-2003, 05:40 PM

I can relate to this guy so much, similar stats to me. It sucks being lean all your life then waking up like rip van winkle somewhere in mid life to find out you gained a bunch of new belt sizes. Welcome to the club. I am playing pure odds here but I bet it’s a combination of:
1) Stress
2) Insulin Insensitivity
3) Metabolic slow down

Probably in that order of influence.

Life is stressful. Working long hours , putting up with bad clients and bad bosses and paying bills is stressful. Going to a desk job from your prior active job is like going from a moderately high activity level to a semi-couch potato activity level. If you made no changes to your other factors just getting that desk job probably contributed an equivalent of 7-10 lbs of fat gain per year – minimum. Throw in the fact you are now older and have lost at least 5-10 lbs of lean mass means you have automatically gained another hunk of fat (5 more lbs minimum). It only accelerates downhill from here unless you act. Right now your strategy needs to be to “hold the line” and get more lean tissue to recruit for you metabolically. That means resistance training, good nutrition and plenty of rest. Then you might as well start thinking long term to get the fat off and keep it off. Don’t mean to scare you but figure on a year of deliberate sustained effort. But think of it also as getting your youth and vitality back and improving your quality of life. Frankly, your life depends on it. I have been there believe me (lost 54 lbs of fat and gained 16 lbs muscle in 6 months) you got to keep at it and fight for every lb. The good news is you lose a pant size for about every 4 lbs of fat you lose and your self esteem will soar and help motivate you to continue and intensify.

Specific recommendations :
1) Start planning every meal (write it down and cook up enough ahead of time for a few days if you needs to).
2) Resistance training at least 3 days per week, with HIIT and some cardio (but take days off now and then to rest or you will over train and burn out)
3) Find ways to reduce stress and get plenty of sleep.
4) Make complex carbs and fiber an integral part of your diet and make sure you get enough EFAs
5) Go to doctor and see if you are pre-diabetic or insulin insensitive – most people are if carrying fat on the waist and are not very heavy.

**JerseyPunk** · 08-14-2003, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Jodi
Just the opposite, you'd lose all the muscle and still retain alot of fat.

For real? Wow that could be a problem with me.. I have been running/biking/swimming everyday. I haven't seen a real loss of muscle, but not much an increase. And, now I think of it, I have reatained some fat and have been wondering why. What is suggested cardio to lose fat weight but not lbm?

**Jodi** · 08-14-2003, 06:54 PM

2 HIIT Sessions per week 20 mins and

1 30 mins. Traditional Cardio

Nobody needs anymore than this. Do a search on HIIT

**JerseyPunk** · 08-14-2003, 10:11 PM

hiit stands for what? I searched but everyone uses the abbrev.

**Jodi** · 08-15-2003, 03:36 AM

High Intensity Interval Training

**Trump** · 08-15-2003, 04:44 AM

you'd lose all the muscle and still retain alot of fat.

What kind of cardiovascular training do you think Lance Armstrong takes part in?

He isn't bulging with muscle, but in no way 'fat'.

**OceanDude** · 08-15-2003, 05:30 AM

People need to realize the difference between "starting" fat and "starting" lean. The best thing is to not get fat. Do not forget Lance was near death from Cancer and was probably emaciated by that before he made his recovery (acutally an argument for why you want "some" fat in case you get sick and layed up in the hospital - it will keep you alive). It is much harder to lose fat once you have lost lean body mass than it is to get fat from a previously lean condition when you are eating good for a given activity level.

**BigRedCat** · 08-29-2003, 02:29 PM

I bought Tom Venuto's e-book and it has some great info in there. It is pretty much the things I have known all along but he really does have a massive amount of good info packed in his book. I have been eating as he suggests(40/40/20) and doing 4 days weights/6 days cardio(mostly HITT after weights and then a couple 30 minute sessions of medium cardio). I have been staying around 187-189 so I seem to be dropping fat although my waist is still around 36". I have been taking PS to keep cortisol in check and have been taking a couple Labrada Charge pills a day to help keep the metabolism going. I will keep plugging away and I should see results soon.

**chelebcm** · 08-29-2003, 11:32 PM

Have your thyroid checked! Your doctor can test your "TSH" (thyroid stimulating hormone) which I understand should ideally be between 1.0 and 2.0 for weight loss. I have very similar stats to yours – 32yo, 5’11, 197 today. Two years ago I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. At the time I blamed my 6-month 25lb weight gain and sluggish mood on a lifestyle change - grad school, a new city, a changing diet and fewer workouts.

Since going on my once daily pill for the hypothyroidism I've dropped 15lbs. I can't say it's totally from getting my thyroid in order however! Based on my experiences and the weight I've managed to lose I would say the thyroid was 5lbs of the weight loss...the remaining 10 I've lost has mostly been due to returning to my old lifestyle! i.e. 'feeling better' (thyroid does affect mood and energy levels), returning to my workouts, getting my diet in order (no more pizzas, NY cocktails) and lowering my stress.

With that said - my thyroid has been in the normal range for some time now, I’ve been eating about 2,000 calories and these last 10lbs are a bitch! Diet/calorie suggestions/experience follow:

1. Have your thyroid checked (test is called “TSH”), get it in order if necessary, then count the calories…

2. BMR calculations are crap with a standard error of 20%! I’ve been to dozens of sites, obsessively calculated my basal metabolic rate several ways and the number is always about 2,000 calories. But considering the error my (our) BMR may actually be as low as 1,600 or as high as 2,400. The only way to know is to track your own activity and cardio for a week or two and check the weight/fat change...

I think we may both benefit from dropping to 1,800 calories for a week or two to see what happens. That’s my two cents…I would throw some early-day sweet potatoes in your diet (yum!)

Much success!

**naturalguy** · 09-02-2003, 09:31 AM

BigRedCat,

First off what is happening to you is common with people on low carb diets, they only work in the short term.

Your answer lies in your original post, you were more active before, now you are older and less active.

You need to do cardio to increase your activity and give your body a reason to burn it's stored bodyfat. I would also introduce carbs back in your diet however do so slowly being that you have been on a reduced carb diet.

**Twin Peak** · 09-02-2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by naturalguy
First off what is happening to you is common with people on low carb diets, they only work in the short term.

1) Define short term.

2) Define "work" -- are you referring to the ability to lose fat, or the ability to maintain a fat loss?

3) Please explain why this is so.

**naturalguy** · 09-02-2003, 10:41 AM

1. short term would be a few weeks

2. "work" to most people is losing weight, on low carb diet you lose water initially then a combo of fat/muscle.

3. They only "work" in the short term for the reasons above (water, muscle loss), most people cannot stay on low carb diets long term anyway (discipline) and who would want to? They are good for "scale" weight loss. Low energy levels and you don't have the ability to train "balls to the wall" as well are other reasons.

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