Cheat Meal

**mit37** · 08-06-2003, 06:03 PM

do u have to be over maintenance or can just eat a ton of carbs

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:06 PM

I would assume be overmaintence. But you have to do it like this. Say on the refeed day or carb up day you decide to do cardio and lift. Eat what was burned at the gym. This would make it over maintence.

**Twin Peak** · 08-06-2003, 06:10 PM

Overmaintenance. Carbs are best.

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:13 PM

So I assume for an meso - endo like me i should intake somewhere around 500 grams? Assuming I did cardio and lifting.

**mit37** · 08-06-2003, 06:20 PM

how many carbs should i be taking in around??

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:21 PM

Normally 2 times your bodyweight. If you go to the gym on the refeed day / carb up day and burn 500 cals, I would add 125 grams more of complex carbs.

**Twin Peak** · 08-06-2003, 06:23 PM

Endos would do best for a controlled refeed. If you are normally say 20% below maintenance, go up tp 50% above for a 12-24 hour period. High carb, low fat.

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:23 PM

Protien 1 gram per pound of bodyweight and minimal fat.

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Endos would do best for a controlled refeed. If you are normally say 20% below maintenance, go up tp 50% above for a 12-24 hour period. High carb, low fat.

I guess I am on the right path then.

**Twin Peak** · 08-06-2003, 06:26 PM

Sounds like it yes.

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 06:29 PM

Thanks!

**blinkboy99** · 08-06-2003, 08:35 PM

what do u guys think about even smaller(4 hours) reffeeds twice a week like in the cheaters diet, he doesnt out line time, but im guessing u eat 1500/day and then 3000 on reffeed

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/body_230cheat.html

**donescobar2000** · 08-06-2003, 08:57 PM

Well that work also. I know from experience. But I only do that every 2 weeks.

**Par Deus** · 08-06-2003, 09:15 PM

6 hours of overfeeding is the shortest time-frame shown to increase leptin that I have seen in the literature.

**Par Deus** · 08-06-2003, 09:17 PM

T-Mag is only about 2 years behind with their "new" ideas on refeeding and leptin.

**Mudge** · 08-06-2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Par Deus
Food and mood are very strongly tied in -- they cannot be separated.

Yep, carbo craving and serotonin levels have been shown to be related. Alot of dieting is a mental challenge to yourself I think, and frankly your cheating ways depends on your goals IMO. The less you think about cheating, and the more you stick to the diet, the easier it gets IMO. But of course occasionally there is a slip, especially if you skip a meal and let yourself get hungry then the quick fix becomes all too tempting.

Now for someone who wants to maintain 7% bodyfat year round, someone like that is generally going to be alot more strict than someone happy with 12%.

**Par Deus** · 08-06-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Mudge
Yep, carbo craving and serotonin levels have been shown to be related.

And, it goes quite a bit farther than that -- a couple snippets, from one of my articles:

"Before rational man, the organism needed a very strong signal to let it know what it needed to do for proper living, particularly in times of scarcity. Things have strong tastes for a reason. Unfortunately, one’s goals and needs are generally not in harmony with one’s genetic tendencies, nowadays, so the issue is far more complicated than “yummy = good for you” (ancestors) and vice-versa. This situation has literally caused an epidemic in times of plenty, as the genetic coding that calorie dense foods are precious and wonderful is still very much existent and active, but it now takes essentially zero effort (physical and otherwise) to attain this nourishment.

Don’t fret, it gets much worse

-- many have come to possess a "thrifty" genotype. Unfortunately for these individuals, large amounts of muscle and high rates of FFA oxidation and lack of need/desire to eat are the thrifty genotype’s antithesis, so the nutrient partitioning situation can get ugly. Compare this, for example, to the West African, badass genotype (gorillas, rhinos, lions, elephants, pro-athletes), which evolved with continuous abundance.

Fortunately, these same signals also open up quite a few avenues of attack. The body has a fair number of reward signals that indicate living right, as well as a vast number of pathways that mediate these reward signals (and, which these reward signals conversely mediate -- did I mention that EVERYTHING is connected). This same reciprocal, intertwined signaling extends to the process of telling the organism to stop a behavior that is anti-life as well.

Dopamine, opiates, GABA, NE, Cannabinoids, PEA, NMDA and more are part of this reward signal, but, again, balance is key. Get something too high or run out of a needed substrate, and the organism shuts down those processes to avoid damage. And because these bodily functions are all interrelated, this shutdown of one process will often take the good stuff with it (like protein synthesis or nutrient uptake)."

"We talked about reward signals, quite a bit, in regard to the fed state, so I will just add that they are quite similar in nature, sharing neurochemicals and huge chunks of signaling pathways. This goes for responses to sex, to food, to drugs, and even great ideas.

For example, food-restriction increases the subjective reward response to both food and drugs. It also increases both dopamine and opiate activity. This makes sense, on the micro and macro level. First, food restrictions mimics food scarcity/starvation, so your reward signals would be low, so the receptors would upregulate simply due to diminished ligand binding. Secondly, the leptin receptor is found all over neurons for pleasure chemicals in the areas of the CNS that modulated food related behavior and, not surprisingly, leptin decreases the reward response to both food and drugs. Fed signals are then sent in 1000 directions and you are chemically satiated.

There are a number of pathways where the reward and fed response is imbalanced in the obese, and conveniently, they can be connected to leptin or dopamine with 1-2 steps. This includes opiate pathways, inositol pathways, and more. "

**Jodi** · 08-07-2003, 03:03 AM

"We talked about reward signals, quite a bit, in regard to the fed state, so I will just add that they are quite similar in nature, sharing neurochemicals and huge chunks of signaling pathways. This goes for responses to sex, to food, to drugs, and even great ideas.

the leptin receptor is found all over neurons for pleasure chemicals in the areas of the CNS that modulated food related behavior and, not surprisingly, leptin decreases the reward response to both food and drugs.

I better order more Leptigen

**Fit Freak** · 08-07-2003, 11:33 AM

Jodi...do you really think you're a meso-endo...your measurements seem rather small for that...have you ever measyred your wrists and ankles and compared them to the charts for bodytypes?

**Julie7Ulie** · 08-07-2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Par Deus
Insulin drives more glucose through the hexosamine pathway, so high GI are better for increasing leptin.

Ectos and Mesos will benefit more from the intense refeeds, as their biochemistry minimizes fat gain issues.

Endos and those with poor genetics will be more likely to have calories spill over into fat gain, so they will do better with longer, more moderate ones, with lower GI carbs.

Is there more info on this? I dont know what I am. Someone gave me this:

http://www.weightlosscontrol.com/bodytypes.htm

But I still cant tell because I feel like Im both an Endo-meso and a Meso-endo. Does it really matter?

**donescobar2000** · 08-07-2003, 11:59 AM

You know all that stuff confuses me to. I sometimes wonder if i am right claiming that I am a Meso Endo.

**Jodi** · 08-07-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Julie7Ulie
Is there more info on this? I dont know what I am. Someone gave me this:

http://www.weightlosscontrol.com/bodytypes.htm

But I still cant tell because I feel like Im both an Endo-meso and a Meso-endo. Does it really matter?

Julie IMO, I think you are like me. Endo-Meso

That's just what I think and could very well be wrong.

**Julie7Ulie** · 08-07-2003, 12:52 PM

No way am I like you. Your tiny and cute. Im gargantuous and have bigger bones. Its like I was born with muscle and when i gain fat, I look even more huge.

**Jodi** · 08-07-2003, 12:55 PM

Julie you have no idea. I haven't always been this way

**Julie7Ulie** · 08-07-2003, 12:57 PM

i betcha never weighed as much as me!

If I was a size 2, Id still be 140 lbs.

**Jodi** · 08-07-2003, 01:02 PM

You do realize I'm only 5'1" right.

**Julie7Ulie** · 08-07-2003, 01:03 PM

I'm 5'3"! 2 more inches isnt supposed to add a million pounds.

**donescobar2000** · 08-07-2003, 01:04 PM

HaHa. It a mini farm. I'm 5'4

**Twin Peak** · 08-07-2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Fit Freak
Jodi...do you really think you're a meso-endo...your measurements seem rather small for that...have you ever measyred your wrists and ankles and compared them to the charts for bodytypes?

What does bone structure have to do with phenotype?

**Jodi** · 08-07-2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Fit Freak
Jodi...do you really think you're a meso-endo...your measurements seem rather small for that...have you ever measyred your wrists and ankles and compared them to the charts for bodytypes?

Trust me I'm pretty confident that I'm endo-meso. TP's seen pics and he agreed with me as well.

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