Cheat Meal

I'm trying to put on muscle and lose BF. Some very helpful members of this forum have really helped me reevaluate my diet. Something I did not bring up however is Cheat meals. I read that you should have cheat meals to keep sanity and keep your body guessing and happy. What is the boundaries around cheat meals, how often, how much, food quality, etc... For my regular meals I've been advised to completely cut out sugar to reduce BF. Will cheat meals hurt or help me.

IMO...they help but only when done infrequently (max is 1 per week) and you keep it within reason.

For example I usually go out to a favorite restaurant and have soup. pasta, and a dessert. No more...otherwise it constitutes more of a binge than a cheat meal...other times I'll have a 12" sub from Subway if I'm looking more for a sanity check versus a cheat.

Others may feel differently...what works for one doesn't work for all...try it out and make up your own mind from experience.

I agree with Fit Freak. Its ok within reason. I was doing it once a week. But I have now pushed it to 1 time every two weeks. Unfortuantley on a couple of those cheat days I got a little too happy and cheat meals ended up turning into binges. But of course I bounce back easily. Treat yourself once a week.

You guys might want to look into leptin and refeeds -- I have written pretty extensively on the topic.

Here is a summary article:

http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php...ID=3&pageID=51

That was written 1.5 years ago, so I will add a little addendum from an upcoming article that will be in IronMan:

"Supplementation
Despite its effectiveness, the refeed is still not the ideal approach, as even if you do it perfectly, you are still halting fat loss while overeating, and for many, it is ends up far worse than this. Without the workout, the excess calories are likely to spill over into fat, and many people just lose it once they start eating, and end up on a 2 day binge of sugar and fat and undo days and days of discipline and progress.

IMO, it tends to promote binge behaviors, in general, if one is prone and not careful, which can carry over into drugs/alcohol, thrill seeking, sex, or whatever your “poison” may be. They all operate through the same reward and reinforcement pathways, and the initial increased sensitivity of reinforcement of such behaviors is well documented in the literature, in animals and humans. Combined with the fact that your diet has increased receptor sensitivity to reward, in addition to reinforcement, you could be Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs (or half-way through a 30 pack and box of Marlboro Reds) before you know what hit you.

Thus, I recommend mitigating the extremes of this cycle by shooting for consistent repartitioning by dropping the overeating, and replacing the lost nutrient/”fed” signaling with supplements, which also have the distinct advantage of having far fewer calories for the same degree of nutrient signaling (especially important as you get lean and need more refeeds)."

I'm sorry by there is a mental side of eating too.....and simply taking a supplement isn't going to do the trick. I also like to schedule my cheats around social events.....BALANCE is important. I'm not saying that a supplement isn't a gr8 approach (ie. if getting ready for a competition) but what I'm mainly referring to is a personal eating clean all year that needs some satisfaction now and again.

Social events cannot be accounted for, obviously, though I would think it desirable to be satisfied with less "cheating", if that were an option.

Food and mood are very strongly tied in -- they cannot be separated.

The primary reason reward and reinforcment pathways (and vice-versa) evolved was to give positive feedback to the organism for seeking out and eating lots of calorie dense foods, so it would fatten itself for inevitable times of scarcity.

The early feedback on LeptiGen has been very, very favorable, in regard to psychological aspects/cravings -- IOW, it takes care of the satisfaction side to a great extent.

And, it was certainly expected to do this, when I designed the formula.

BTW, I still recommend refeeds, just less often than I used to, for the reasons stated.

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Originally posted by Par Deus
BTW, I still recommend refeeds, just less often than I used to, for the reasons stated.

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What sort of (re-feed) frequency are we talking about?
(And, keep in mind that I'm not considering this as an option at present, since I'm knee-deep in the LeptiGen II right now)

Like once every week or two, depending on how low leptin is (i.e. bodyfat, in relation to setpoint, as well as length and severity of diet)

Mostly to refill glycogen and because cereal is yummy.

I agree...the frequency of refeeds largely depends how strict your diet is as well as how low your BF% is. Regardless I wouldn't reffed more than once per week....just MHO.

i'm looking forward to 6-8 weeks from now when i can have my first REAL cheat meal... i don't take training TOO seriously, so therefore i don't take my diet overly serious either (i don't cheat if i don't have to but i mean, i'm going to a wedding this weekend and i know dinner will probably be something i shouldn't have but obviously i'm still going to eat it) ... i just started a cut and have been faithful to it so far and have no intentions on cheating until i see some serious results but once i see those results, i can't wait to sink my teeth into a big fat juicy burger loaded with cheese and bacon ;)

or maybe a nice large pizza to myself :D

but of course the diet will resume itself after those few minutes of heaven :p

i can't wait to sink my teeth into a big fat juicy burger loaded with cheese and bacon ;)

or maybe a nice large pizza to myself :D

but of course the diet will resume itself after those few minutes of heaven :p [/QUOTE]

That's what I'm talking about!!
:dance:

I'd be careful with pizza if I where you. Eat a whole one and you can look at adding a pound easily. Take it from someone who went balistic one day. I once did 300 grams of fat and 600 grams of carbs in one day. I needed it though. It gave me sanity from some strict dieting.

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Originally posted by Par Deus
BTW, I still recommend refeeds, just less often than I used to, for the reasons stated.

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so r u suggesting that the refeeds should last a shorter amount of time like a few hours instead of days... and can u give me examples of foods u eat to restore leptin?

Most refeeds are 12-24 hours, not a few days. :confused:

If you refeed for more than a day you will cetainly experience a "spill-over" and end up with less than optimal results...in fact I would say you'll ultimately end up on a bit of the "fatter side"...:eek:

I was always a fan of short (8-12 hour), intense refeeds -- would basically eat all the cereal and pasta I wanted/could handle. Would be at least 50% above maintenence, if extended to a 24 hour period.

If one is doing the typical cyclical dieting (which, as mentioned, is no longer my favorite approach), I think this works best for ectomorphs and mesomorphs, but for endomorphs, and those with relatively poor genetics, I think a longer (24-36 hours), more moderate refeed would be best (like 10-20% above maintenence.

OK, I have to ask. What is a refeed? Should I be doing it?

A refeed incorporated on a CKD diet. A modified atkins. You do a carb load for 24 to 36 hours. Eating as much carbs as possible. Then you go back to low carbing till your next refeed which may be in another week.

Correct me if i'm wrong but during refeeds you should be adding slow-burning carbs.... If you are using refeeds as part of a cutting plan a refeed isn't supposed to be a "carb cheat binge" but rather a carb-up with slow-burning carbs.

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Originally posted by dymas
Correct me if i'm wrong but during refeeds you should be adding slow-burning carbs.... If you are using refeeds as part of a cutting plan a refeed isn't supposed to be a "carb cheat binge" but rather a carb-up with slow-burning carbs.

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:thumb: This is the preferred method so you don't gain fat. You can eat as many carbs as you want and keep fat and protein lower but most people dieting here are not on CKD and have some carbs in their diet so the slow burning carbs are your MUCH better choices. This is how I do it. :)

I was on that CKD Diet crap. LOL. Man was it horrible. I cut go ripped of of it. But I was tired 100 percent of the time. So I bumped it.

I wouldn't suggest a CKD to anyone...Par...I agree with you also here..if you're anendomorph you need to be much more careful and therefore a more moderate refeed should be done.

I also think if your conditionning is "less than optimal"...meaning above approx. 12%...a refeed should also be more moderate in nature.

I agree. I am an endomorph myself I try not to go over 350 grams of carbs on a day where I just choose to eat normal. Of course I am cursed with being an endo.

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Originally posted by dymas
Correct me if i'm wrong but during refeeds you should be adding slow-burning carbs.... If you are using refeeds as part of a cutting plan a refeed isn't supposed to be a "carb cheat binge" but rather a carb-up with slow-burning carbs.

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Insulin drives more glucose through the hexosamine pathway, so high GI are better for increasing leptin.

Ectos and Mesos will benefit more from the intense refeeds, as their biochemistry minimizes fat gain issues.

Endos and those with poor genetics will be more likely to have calories spill over into fat gain, so they will do better with longer, more moderate ones, with lower GI carbs.

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Originally posted by Fit Freak

I also think if your conditionning is "less than optimal"...meaning above approx. 12%...a refeed should also be more moderate in nature.

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Yep -- I should have mentioned this. Fatter people will have more blood flow to the adipose and total adipose for taking up nutrients.

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Endos and those with poor genetics will be more likely to have calories spill over into fat gain, so they will do better with longer, more moderate ones, with lower GI carbs.

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That would be why I only use slower burning carbs :grumble:

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Originally posted by Jodi
That would be why I only use slower burning carbs :grumble:

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Ah...Jodi so you are an endo?

Endo-Meso :(

lol..yea me too. BLAME THE PARENTS!