Thread: Discourage - Is it a waist of time!!

Yes, Tom is natural and his physique is attainable without drugs.

You have to remember that it all revolves around your individual genetics. There are some "genetic freaks", probably one out every million people, that can get rather large without drugs.

If you're asking about getting a physique like a pro bodybuilder without drugs, impossible.

To get like that naturally will take years of hard work and stict dieting. It can be done. Steriods just really speeds it up and allows you to build more mass! If you just want to get lean and in good shape, this will be no problem if you stay dedicated. But to get huge and ripped, you will need some help!

Is Tom considered a "Genetic freaks"?

I don't want a Pro physique, not as big for sure, But I would like to have Tom Venuto size and definition.

I would say he is above average!

What so many people do not consider is that low body fat is really king of the road in my opinion. I have seen guys that are not big muscle bound freaks look absolutely terrific when they get to low body fat. Unless you are a super skinny ectomorphic type with no significant muscle I’d recommend you consider first focus on losing fat. Once you are below about 15% bf (20% for women) the natural muscle you have starts to look terrific. When a man gets in the 10-8% BF range he usually has his 6 pack – which is rare in today’s society and it’s a marker for someone that is well above average. People have to respect a 6-pack no matter how muscular you are. Aesthetically this is a great place to be even if you are not naturally a super massive 80% or higher mesomorph. Many fairly less muscled guys (and women) can look terrific if body fat is down. As you add more muscle to a lean body it only gets exponentially better and better. I know I will take hull damage on this opinion from the big muscle bound meat balls on here though …

Originally posted by patbuck
Is Tom considered a "Genetic freaks"?

I don't want a Pro physique, not as big for sure, But I would like to have Tom Venuto size and definition.

well, why don't you buy his book!
http://www.ironmagazine.com/go/burnfat

I have only known one genetic freak in my entire life. He was a friend of mine in highschool that was a wrestler and gymnast. He did not even lift weights and his muscles were not only developed, but hard, ripped and vascular. (I hated him!)

I used to sit and imagine what he would have looked like had he focused striclty on bodybuilding!

I do not know if Tom is a genetic freak, but he definitely has attained an awesome physique.

Originally posted by OceanDude
What so many people do not consider is that low body fat is really king of the road in my opinion. I have seen guys that are not big muscle bound freaks look absolutely terrific when they get to low body fat. Unless you are a super skinny ectomorphic type with no significant muscle I’d recommend you consider first focus on losing fat. Once you are below about 15% bf (20% for women) the natural muscle you have starts to look terrific. When a man gets in the 10-8% BF range he usually has his 6 pack – which is rare in today’s society and it’s a marker for someone that is well above average. People have to respect a 6-pack no matter how muscular you are. Aesthetically this is a great place to be even if you are not naturally a super massive 80% or higher mesomorph. Many fairly less muscled guys (and women) can look terrific if body fat is down. As you add more muscle to a lean body it only gets exponentially better and better. I know I will take hull damage on this opinion from the big muscle bound meat balls on here though …

Being lean definitely gives the illusion of size, but maintaining a bf% sub 10% is not healthy anyway.

However, it depends on your goals, you cannot gain mass and maintain 6% bf simultaneously unless you're on drugs.

Originally posted by Prince
Being lean definitely gives the illusion of size, but maintaining a bf% sub 10% is not healthy anyway.

However, it depends on your goals, you cannot gain mass and maintain 6% bf simultaneously unless you're on drugs.

Really? I am currently about 10.5-11% and thought that 8% would be easy and healthy to maintain when I get there. I thought that 5-6% and below is when it gets dicy for men. I want my 6-pack no matter how low I got to go - I just need to lose maybe 5 more lbs of fat and I should be home.

Tanks guys, this is really good to know.

I'm at 9% bf I can see my top abs but not all.
I went from 200lbs to 175lbs. 200lbs to 185lbs without training and then I started training and went 185lbs to 175lbs.

I have bodybuilding wile I was younger about 5 years ago.
I started bodybuilding again 4 months ago.
Now I'm 9% bf but because I only been training for 4 months I do not have a lot of muscle to show up.

So I was wondering if It will be possible to get a very very good amount of muscle without steroid.
Now you are saying that yes it's possible with years to have Tom Venuto body, then I'm going to keep going untill I reach it...


If it's possible, then I can do it... :o)

It is possible to build an outstanding physique without drugs. Check out what Skip Lacour has done www.skiplacour.com


do not get discouraged, the only limits are in your mind!

Originally posted by patbuck
Tanks guys, this is really good to know.

I'm at 9% bf I can see my top abs but not all.
I went from 200lbs to 175lbs. 200lbs to 185lbs without training and then I started training and went 185lbs to 175lbs.

I have bodybuilding wile I was younger about 5 years ago.
I started bodybuilding again 4 months ago.
Now I'm 9% bf but because I only been training for 4 months I do not have a lot of muscle to show up.

So I was wondering if It will be possible to get a very very good amount of muscle without steroid.
Now you are saying that yes it's possible with years to have Tom Venuto body, then I'm going to keep going untill I reach it...


If it's possible, then I can do it... :o)

If it's any consolation, I'm an ecto-mesomorph and have been training seriously for the last 2 years. The only supps I take are creatine and whey protein. My diet is a strict as I want it to be, but by no means competitive level. Just not interested in that. I've noticed a HUGE difference in my physique in the last year. I'm not HUGE by any means but I've been told I'm one of the bigger guys in the gym. Just last week, this incredibly BIG guy at the gym complimented me and said whatever I was doing was definitely right. That feels good coming from a guy that's bigger than anyone I've ever seen before. BTW~ he's one of those genetic freaks. He's the only person I know that can lean against a weight stack and just SWELL up.

Don't be tempted to dabble in the illegal stuff. It may take a lot longer to get to where you want to be, but it'll feel better knowing it all came from hardwork. Cheaters never win in the end.

Originally posted by naturalguy
It is possible to build an outstanding physique without drugs. Check out what Skip Lacour has done www.skiplacour.com

Do you guys believe that this guy is really natural?

Are they been tested all year around or once a year at the competition?

Can they take stereoid for 2 year and then stop for a year and go to competition?

I have been told that these natural guy are on stereoid and they stop just a few month before the competition. is that possible?

I can tell you that the guy I mentioned that trains at my gym is completely natural and is bigger than Skip. His father was just as big.

Originally posted by dg806
Steriods just really speeds it up and allows you to build more mass!

I agree, it is possible, but its going to take dicipline in the lifestyle, if you want it you can get there from here.

Skips brother is a big guy, 6'4" or 6'5" and around 270, so Skip somehow ended up short. I am curious as to wether he maybe used when he was younger, but honestly I have a hard time trusting anyone that is of that size, but whoooooooo knows and honestly the only thing that bothers me about things like that is when someone is dishonest. Wether they use or not is not a big deal to me, because largely it is a fact of "this life." I just dont like when people lie about it.

Originally posted by Mudge
Skips brother is a big guy, 6'4" or 6'5" and around 270, so Skip somehow ended up short. I am curious as to wether he maybe used when he was younger, but honestly I have a hard time trusting anyone that is of that size, but whoooooooo knows and honestly the only thing that bothers me about things like that is when someone is dishonest. Wether they use or not is not a big deal to me, because largely it is a fact of "this life." I just dont like when people lie about it.

I have met Skip in person and he is not that big, he gets in incredible condition for competition and if you follow his journal and see the way the man eats and trains..........he is like a machine.

I don't doubt that he is natural. I have stood next to him (I am alot shorter) and he is not that big but his conditioning is what sets him apart and makes him look bigger onstage and in photo's.

Originally posted by naturalguy
I have met Skip in person and he is not that big, he gets in incredible condition for competition and if you follow his journal and see the way the man eats and trains..........he is like a machine.

Where can we see his Journal?

He has many articles and books available on his web site. Remember though. He's been training for over 13 years. Never expect to be like him in a short amount of time.

Yep I know that

That was what I was going to ask.

How long would it take whithout stereoid to reach a body like Venuto?
I know is smaller than Skip and not has complete so it might be easier to reach.

I know it depend on each person.
But let say I diet (Bulking and leaning) years after years for 5
years.
Do you guys think that I would look like Venuto?
Or How would you says a person would look after 5 years of intense diet and training?

Just for you to know, I have trained for 4 years in my teenager years 16 to 20. I have a pretty good knowledge of training.
So I know I can bodybuild for a good amount of time. I'm not a newbi.
But in these 4 years I have never been teach how to bodybuild I was overtrining and my diet was really bad I wasn't eating a lot.
So I did everything the wrong way following these /$%?& stereoid trainer advise that were in my gym.
My gain were very small in those years.

I guess it all depends on your motivation and desire. Sure, with strict training and diet discipline, anything is possible. What are your goals? Do you plan to compete? I'd set my long range goals to look like Skip or Tom, but make short term goals too. Without them, you'll eventually become discouraged.

Like I said before, I've been training seriously for 2.5 years. I've gained a lot of mass but I'm nowhere near, at least in my eyes, where Skip and Tom are. BUT, I am happy with what I've achieved. However, I'm not content with what I've got, so off to the gym I will go.

Well my goal is to compete for sure in a few years, This is like a dream to be able to reach a competition body. I don't know if I will ever be able to because I know you need some genetic to get there and win. But the discipline that I have for sure and everybody that know me can testified of that.

But last wednesday after I spoke with that 20 years of experience bodybuilder that showed me picture and told me that I could get a good shap without stereoid but never a competition shape. I was very discourage. He even told me that these guy in natural competition where on Stereoid all year around and stop when the wanted to compete. That wasn't the first time I was earing such things. So it just remind me something that I already though but wasn't think of at that point.


I don't want to be extremely big like MR. Olympia. I just want a be very very muscular. If you ask me why, that I don't know, I like the discipline of eating properly, training very hard and seeing result.

My short gool are to prepare for my first competition.
Is there a way to know if you will ever be able to compete?
Is there a way to know if you have what it need to get there?




I was like Man this is what I want to compete

Do not get discouraged.


There are some very legitimate natural bodybuilding organizations, check out the INBF www.inbf.net

Also check out Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness magazine.

These guys are not huge however they are in great condition. They do strict drug testing where you have to be natural for at least 7 years.

Don't listen to anybody that says you can't do something.