what happens when you don't have enough fat/carb in your diet?

**Skib** · 10-02-2003, 05:26 PM

as far as i know i'm supposed to be eating approx 10 g of fat and 30-40 g of carb per meal...

i have eggs for breakfast (no carbs?)

a tuna sand with fat free mayo and celery for meal 2 (no fat)

romaine lettuce w/ tuna and fat free dressing for meal 3 (no fat)

i usually get enough fat/carb in meal 4 as it's my pre work out meal...

and post work out i have a shake w/ natural pb and oats... unless it's a day of rest in which case i skip the oats...

is there anything wrong with doing this? do i need carbs for anything other than energy? if i don't need massive amounts of energy on a certain day (non training days) should i still be eating the same amount of carbs?

my goal is to lower bf so that's why i'm playing around with my diet... just to see what works and what doesn't...

**Leslie** · 10-02-2003, 05:34 PM

With lack of carbs and fat your body will use protein for energy instead of supplying it to your muscles for repair and growth. Also without carbs or a carb up your fat loss will come to a halt as your metabolism will slow down, making it harder in the long run to lose body fat. In the long run you will sacrifice the lean body mass you worked so hard to get.

**Skib** · 10-02-2003, 05:36 PM

ah, i see... that makes sense!

so should i be using real mayo and non fat free dressing?

and maybe try having a small bowl of oatmeal with my eggs in the morn?

**P-funk** · 10-02-2003, 05:37 PM

yes, yes and yes

**_Aj** · 10-02-2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by Leslie
With lack of carbs and fat your body will use protein for energy instead of supplying it to your muscles for repair and growth. Also without carbs or a carb up your fat loss will come to a halt as your metabolism will slow down, making it harder in the long run to lose body fat. In the long run you will sacrifice the lean body mass you worked so hard to get.

If he is getting some carbs in some meals and some fats in other meals would protein still be used as energy. Especially if you are incorporating refeed a a bi weekly basis.

Just ponderin'

**_Aj** · 10-02-2003, 07:08 PM

He Skib, I notice that you are in London as well. Ace to that. Do you go to school down here. I also live here. Nice to see fellow londoners, on some of these boards.

**P-funk** · 10-02-2003, 07:09 PM

You need an energy source. Your body can use either carbs (glucose or glycogen) or fats as fuel. If it is not getting either of these, or not enough of them, it starts to breakdown aminoacids and convert them into glucose, a process called gluconeogenesis.

**Skib** · 10-02-2003, 08:18 PM

AJ,

hey buddy, what's goin on?

i've lived in london my entire life... oakridge area... but i work at galleria mall and went to school in white hills (banting)... so i'm kinda all over the city...

i went to fanshawe last year but am taking a year off this year and hopefully going to western next year... how bout you?

**_Aj** · 10-03-2003, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by P-funk
You need an energy source. Your body can use either carbs (glucose or glycogen) or fats as fuel. If it is not getting either of these, or not enough of them, it starts to breakdown aminoacids and convert them into glucose, a process called gluconeogenesis.

okay i knew that, but at what point does the body start breaking amino acids in energy. Then even when it does when does it actually start using muscle. If you were taking enough protein in, but still taking in fat and carbs (just not as many) incorpating refeeds/ carb up, and eating fibourous vegetables, would it not spare protein.

Dieting alone is already breakdown muscle, so would the effects be the same. Now I am not taking about an all protein diet but like a 10/50/40 - C/P/F ratio, eating every 3-4hrs.

**_Aj** · 10-03-2003, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Skib
AJ,

hey buddy, what's goin on?

i've lived in london my entire life... oakridge area... but i work at galleria mall and went to school in white hills (banting)... so i'm kinda all over the city...

i went to fanshawe last year but am taking a year off this year and hopefully going to western next year... how bout you?

Naw I moved down for school and ended graduating Fanshawe, where do you work at the galleria. I would at club phoenix.

**gr81** · 10-03-2003, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by Skib
ah, i see... that makes sense!

so should i be using real mayo and non fat free dressing?

and maybe try having a small bowl of oatmeal with my eggs in the morn?

Definately yes on the Oats, defn No on the real mayo, you do not want to have all tha transfatty acid. that is not good fat at all bro.

**naturalguy** · 10-03-2003, 06:15 AM

Your body does need carbs every day, even if you are not training that day. If you are training hard, your body is in a constant state of recovery.

The problem with carb refeeds is that they are usually a designated day of the week or they fall on every 3rd day instead you should eat your carbs around your training. For example, if you carb refeed every 3rd day, let's say you train on Monday (day1) & Tues. (day 2), you need carbs on those days however you are not giving your body carbs until Wed. (day 3), you are missing the boat on maximum recovery. It makes no sense to refeed only on certain days. You should refeed on every training day.

**Jodi** · 10-03-2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by gr81
Definately yes on the Oats, defn No on the real mayo, you do not want to have all tha transfatty acid. that is not good fat at all bro.

Real mayo is not TFA. Its canola oil. Real mayo is great and even better is Safflower Mayo

**_Aj** · 10-03-2003, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by naturalguy
Your body does need carbs every day, even if you are not training that day. If you are training hard, your body is in a constant state of recovery.

The problem with carb refeeds is that they are usually a designated day of the week or they fall on every 3rd day instead you should eat your carbs around your training. For example, if you carb refeed every 3rd day, let's say you train on Monday (day1) & Tues. (day 2), you need carbs on those days however you are not giving your body carbs until Wed. (day 3), you are missing the boat on maximum recovery. It makes no sense to refeed only on certain days. You should refeed on every training day.

First of all, I do take in carbs around training, usually about 150-200g. I also refeed after a traing day, and I don't follow a specific day schedule. for instance it is not always on the 3rd day, sometimes sooner sometimes later. Also carbs are involved with the repair process (as far as I know) it is mainly protein and Fats that are used to repair muscles, and cells. When Glycogen levels are depleted, I get less DOMs (basicially my doms are alot worse after a refeed) Here is a quote from Lyle on that point from Avants Site:

AT least part of the sorenss response is related to inflammation following training. Said inflammation being mediated by the immune system. Immune cells are one of a few that require glucose and the immune system seems to be a little less able to cope on low-carb diets, where glucose is limiting. It's possible that the body is simply unable to mount a significant inflammatory response to training.

Hence, less soreness.

Although I have to mention that he said that is speculation, but this hold true to when I am depleted. And I know that certain fats, omega 3's in general assist in inflammation and healing of the cells.

**Jodi** · 10-03-2003, 08:54 AM

And I know that certain fats, omega 3's in general assist in inflammation and healing of the cells.

Fish Oil is great for that

**_Aj** · 10-03-2003, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Jodi
Real mayo is not TFA. Its canola oil. Real mayo is great and even better is Safflower Mayo

You have to get Hellmans as most "real" mayos contain soybean oil. IMO, this is just as bad a TFA, refined shiat. ANd I can't say to much for the Canola Oil. Although I am not to sure about the safflower oil.

The one thing that you have to becareful about when buying oils is if they come in see through jars and arn't virgin there is more chance that the "good" aspects are oxidized. I am very careful with my oil choices.

**naturalguy** · 10-03-2003, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by _Aj
You have to get Hellmans as most "real" mayos contain soybean oil. IMO, this is just as bad a TFA, refined shiat. ANd I can't say to much for the Canola Oil. Although I am not to sure about the safflower oil.

The one thing that you have to becareful about when buying oils is if they come in see through jars and arn't virgin there is more chance that the "good" aspects are oxidized. I am very careful with my oil choices.

You also have to be careful with fats, although we need a small amount of essential fat you must remember that fat is 9 calories per gram as opposed to 4 for carbs and protein and fat is more easily stored as bodyfat than any other nutrient.

**Jodi** · 10-03-2003, 09:01 AM

Safflower oil is a good EFA. Personally I make my own mayo but Hain has a good safflower mayo. Safflower oil, eggs & vinegar.

**_Aj** · 10-03-2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by naturalguy
You also have to be careful with fats, although we need a small amount of essential fat you must remember that fat is 9 calories per gram as opposed to 4 for carbs and protein and fat is more easily stored as bodyfat than any other nutrient.

Well it kinda depends on you metabolic state and really it comes down to cals in vs. cals out.

Also I eat less fat in terms of gr. compared to carbs.

Also I have notice when I use fats for fuel I have more energy and I can think more clearly. You are correct that the body only needs a small amount of EFA but most diet don't contain enough unless they supplement with fish or flax oil. Even then most people still dont get enough. It all comes down to balance and the body getting what it needs. IMO, the body does not need CHO, unless you are trying to bulk up. Fat is not really anabolic, that is why you give the body the right nutrient at the right times for optimal use.

CHO Around Training to create a Insulin responce and glycogen replenishment and create an anabolic enviroment, Protein at every meal for repair and growth, Fats the rest of the time for repair and overall health.

Jodi,

Good point about making your own oil, I make my own as well but I use olive oil intead. Safflower oil is good but i feel that it still contain to many o-6 to o-3's. But that really doesn't matter if you also use fish or flax throughout the day.

I think that I heard the idea ratio is either 3:1 or 2:1(o-6:0-3) but unfortunatley most americian diet are more like 65:1 and most of the EFA are oxidized to to processing and exposing to air and light.

When I buy an oil it is usually a virgin sold in an opaque glass bottle. And then I even store it in the fridge or freezer.

**Skib** · 10-03-2003, 03:24 PM

AJ,

i'm a stock manager at athletes world

i'm assuming you meant to say you WORK at club phoenix... that's awesome, what do you do? my good buddy kyle used to work there as a bar back... i'm sure you know him unless you just started within the past few months...

i was there last thursday night for mark oliver actually... here's some pics : )

**Jodi** · 10-03-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by _Aj
Jodi,

Good point about making your own oil, I make my own as well but I use olive oil intead. Safflower oil is good but i feel that it still contain to many o-6 to o-3's. But that really doesn't matter if you also use fish or flax throughout the day.

I think that I heard the idea ratio is either 3:1 or 2:1(o-6:0-3) but unfortunatley most americian diet are more like 65:1 and most of the EFA are oxidized to to processing and exposing to air and light.

When I buy an oil it is usually a virgin sold in an opaque glass bottle. And then I even store it in the fridge or freezer.

Here is my mayo recipe. Good stuff

EFA Mayo

**_Aj** · 10-04-2003, 01:27 AM

lol, ya see the guy holding the camera, in pic 5, thats me, ya the one with the dum look on his face. I am the videographer/ multimedia specialist.

Basicially fun job, jus alot of hours.

**Skib** · 10-04-2003, 06:37 PM

damn, what a coincidence...

that must be a fun job!

but if you don't mind my input, i think it's a little weird that the club puts up 3 hours + videos of everynight on the website... totally unnecessary and i'm not too sure how i feel about my drunk ass being filmed for hours on end for the general public to view at their own convenience :P

**_Aj** · 10-05-2003, 03:04 AM

Well there is not time to edit it. But that is the idea behind the concept. But this is really getting off topic, PM if you want my email, we can talk some more.

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