Thread: MRP w/Skim Milk OR Protein w/Water & Heavy Cream?

Lactose is never really a good thing, man, I mean, if you're bulking I guess it's okay, but if you want to be really strict on yourself lactose DOES to a certain extent have an effect on insulin, and will be a stumbling block in you gaining LBM with minimal fat gain. And if you're bulking, you shouldn't be using protein and fat as your post-workout meal. Try going with 3/4 cup- 1 cup of dry oats and 45-60g of a good protein blend. I wish you luck, then an hour later take in 40-50g of clean carbs and an equivalent amount of protein, with some veggies. No fat in either post-workout meal.

Peace.

Originally posted by Premo55
Lactose is never really a good thing, man, I mean, if you're bulking I guess it's okay, but if you want to be really strict on yourself lactose DOES to a certain extent have an effect on insulin, and will be a stumbling block in you gaining LBM with minimal fat gain. And if you're bulking, you shouldn't be using protein and fat as your post-workout meal. Try going with 3/4 cup- 1 cup of dry oats and 45-60g of a good protein blend. I wish you luck, then an hour later take in 40-50g of clean carbs and an equivalent amount of protein, with some veggies. No fat in either post-workout meal.

Peace.

I agree leave the fat out PWO. However, if you want to make your own MRP with whey then YES, use the heavy cream instead and maybe a few strawberries. When I followed DP & w8's plans last year I use to make this homemade MRP every morning for breakfast.

I think a better MRP is 3/4 cup oat bran, 1/4 cup wheat bran, 45g protein blend, and one teaspoon flax or Udo's. You need the carbs in there if you're bulking, and fiber is absent from absolutely every single MRP out there. Plus they're filled with maltodextrin, which is an absolutely crappy carb, and trans-fats from palm oil. The only MRPs I can whole-heartedly recommend are ProLab's Lean Matrix and Biotest's GROW!, both taste phenomenal and have very, very little filler.

Peace.

I understand Premo, but it sounds like he is following a plan that is in the sticky that DP & w8 wrote and if that's the case, its kind of a different plan for bulking. Check it out and you will know what I mean. Its a good plan and has worked for many people but its not your typical bulking plan that you see

Oh. It sounds like he wants to use heavy cream and strawberries for PWO, though, which I don't understand, seeing as the only purpose for this would be to facilitate lipolysis/fat loss without halting the process via ingestion of carbs/subsequent glucose production. This deprives him of restoring glycogen stores when he needs them most...so I don't get the logic.

Peace.

Originally posted by Premo55
Lactose is never really a good thing, man, I mean, if you're bulking I guess it's okay, but if you want to be really strict on yourself lactose DOES to a certain extent have an effect on insulin, and will be a stumbling block in you gaining LBM with minimal fat gain. And if you're bulking, you shouldn't be using protein and fat as your post-workout meal. Try going with 3/4 cup- 1 cup of dry oats and 45-60g of a good protein blend. I wish you luck, then an hour later take in 40-50g of clean carbs and an equivalent amount of protein, with some veggies. No fat in either post-workout meal.

Peace.

I do want to be fairly strict about my bulking diet, so I'll take your advice and remove the lactose. I have kept the fat to a bare minimum for both of my post-workout meals and will continue to do so. I'm concerned that if I add 3/4 to 1 cup of dry oats to my post-workout shake, I won't be able to eat again one hour later. But I'll try it and see if it works for me. Thanks for your advice.

I agree and thats why I said no fat PWO -

Although, I do have to admit, I always have some sort of fat PWO. My PWO is always a meal, just the way I've always done thing and its never harmed my progress before Like I said this is just me though and I always recommend no fat PWO to everyone else.

Originally posted by Downtown Guy
I do want to be fairly strict about my bulking diet, so I'll take your advice and remove the lactose. I have kept the fat to a bare minimum for both of my post-workout meals and will continue to do so. I'm concerned that if I add 3/4 to 1 cup of dry oats to my post-workout shake, I won't be able to eat again one hour later. But I'll try it and see if it works for me. Thanks for your advice.

Then just have the protein and then an hour later have a meal with carbs. Try it out several ways and find out what will work for you though

Dude, gaining weight is not really an issue of comfort, really. If you wanna gain quality weight you really do have to eat, and eat, and eat, but intelligently. You won't always enjoy it, but you'll grow accustomed to gulping all that food down.

Peace.

Jodi and Premo,

Maybe my original post was a little confusing since I have used the same shake for three different meals in the past, meal 1, PWO meal and meal 6. Maybe the heavy cream would make sense for the meal 6 shake, but obviously not for the PWO meal. I probaly should insure I EAT my protein for meal 1, rather than drinking it. It seems I simply need to work harder in the kitchen to accomplish my goals. Does that make sense? BTW, I am basically on my own eclectic nutrition plan and only stole the heavy cream idea from that thread to help resolve the lactose probem. Sorry about the confusion. Thanks for all the help!

I personally strongly advise you to take in carbs for two post-workout meals, one immediately after workout, and the second an hour to an hour and a half post-workout. Your body replenishes glycogen with phenomenal effectiveness with very little room for carb spillage/subsequent fat gain within six hours after your workout, so theoretically according to some nutritionist you can orient ALL your carbs to within six hours PWO, but personally I play it safe and stick to two PWO meals, and breakfast, with the other three to four meals being exclusively P+F.

Peace.

Originally posted by Premo55
Dude, gaining weight is not really an issue of comfort, really. If you wanna gain quality weight you really do have to eat, and eat, and eat, but intelligently. You won't always enjoy it, but you'll grow accustomed to gulping all that food down.

Peace.

Thanks for trying to drive that point home for me! I've been cutting for almost a year now and have lost 35 lbs. of body fat while maintaining what little muscle mass I have. I have recently reversed direction and begun to eat more in an attempt to add some LBM. Still not used to eating large amounts of food.

I'm not sure that my new nutrition plan even qualifies as a bulking plan since I'm only consuming only about 350 calories above maintenance level. Obviously, I'm still working to "clean" it up. Considering that I do not want to gain the fat back, would you recomend adding more quality calories in an attempt to build muscle?

Originally posted by Premo55
I personally strongly advise you to take in carbs for two post-workout meals, one immediately after workout, and the second an hour to an hour and a half post-workout. Your body replenishes glycogen with phenomenal effectiveness with very little room for carb spillage/subsequent fat gain within six hours after your workout, so theoretically according to some nutritionist you can orient ALL your carbs to within six hours PWO, but personally I play it safe and stick to two PWO meals, and breakfast, with the other three to four meals being exclusively P+F.

Peace.

Thanks for another "nugget", Premo! I did not realize that extremely efficient glycogen replishment was effective for up to six hours after the workout. That's a long time! I think I should workout earlier in the day to take advantage of that phenomenon. I really like your idea of restricting carbs to the first meal of the day and to the two post-workout meals, then consuming only protein and quality fat at the other meals. I think I'll adopt your plan. Do I need to pay royalties?

Yes, keep adding calories gradually until you start noticing gains. If you're gaining fat, tweak your diet accordingly to suit your needs, it's all about finding out what numbers work for you, man, some cats I know can go as high as x20 or even x25 in order to gain LBM....Personally I stay at x15-18....usually on the lower end.

Peace.

Originally posted by Jodi
Then just have the protein and then an hour later have a meal with carbs. Try it out several ways and find out what will work for you though

SImple, but superb advice, Jodi! I will try it out several ways to see what works best for me.

Premo has given me enough info to convince me to try to force down some fairly serious carbs immediately after my workout and then do it again an hour later. Might require an adjustment period. As you suggested, I'll customize it for my own needs. Thanks againh for your help!

Honestly you'll get used to it. Personally that 40-50g from oats is nothign to me, I could easily eat three times that amount in that time span, but I love my oats. If I could have a cheat meal, I'd eat four cups of oats (measured before cooking), cooked with a crap load of Splenda, vanilla essence and cinnamon. Heck, I'll even eat it plain. I love the taste of oats.

Peace.

Originally posted by Premo55
Yes, keep adding calories gradually until you start noticing gains. If you're gaining fat, tweak your diet accordingly to suit your needs, it's all about finding out what numbers work for you, man, some cats I know can go as high as x20 or even x25 in order to gain LBM....Personally I stay at x15-18....usually on the lower end.

Peace.

Wow! With multipliers like 20 and 25, I'd be bigger than an elephant on steroids! Currently, my calories are just over 15 X bodyweight, at the lower end of your scale. I'll clean 'em up and gradually raise them. I'm seeing some minor gains now, but hopefully will do much better with the great nutritional advice you guys offer.

Originally posted by Premo55
Honestly you'll get used to it. Personally that 40-50g from oats is nothign to me, I could easily eat three times that amount in that time span, but I love my oats. If I could have a cheat meal, I'd eat four cups of oats (measured before cooking), cooked with a crap load of Splenda, vanilla essence and cinnamon. Heck, I'll even eat it plain. I love the taste of oats.

Peace.

Two great minds running in the same channel! I'm with you on the oats. Eat them for breakfast almost every day. I like them plain, or garnished with banana, blueberries or walnuts. But I could not eat more than 1 cup and still consume 40 grams of protein at the same meal. Any more than that and I'd blow up like a tick on a houndog.

When you suggested oats with a protein shake, you meant uncooked, didn't you?

Originally posted by Premo55
I personally strongly advise you to take in carbs for two post-workout meals, one immediately after workout, and the second an hour to an hour and a half post-workout. Your body replenishes glycogen with phenomenal effectiveness with very little room for carb spillage/subsequent fat gain within six hours after your workout, so theoretically according to some nutritionist you can orient ALL your carbs to within six hours PWO, but personally I play it safe and stick to two PWO meals, and breakfast, with the other three to four meals being exclusively P+F.

Peace.

Premo, if the body is this efficient at glycogen replacement for six hours after a workout, wouldn't it be in a bodybuilder's best interest to work out as many days as possible?

I am currently concentrating on building mass with a Hardgainer routine based on intense full-body workouts which concentrate on the big compound movements; such as squats, deadlifts, chins, dips, rows and bench presses. My body requires 72 hours of rest after such a workout. My concern is that my body won't handle the carbs nearly as well on my rest days. Thus, the body would process carbs much better by working out 5 days a week than by working out only twice a week. In your opinion, is that a good enough reason to change workout routines/splits?

I realize comparisons of workout routines probably shouldn't be discussed here, but I'm concerned about how the number of workouts per week affect glycogen storage and therefore the diet/nutrition plan.

Originally posted by Downtown Guy
SImple, but superb advice, Jodi! I will try it out several ways to see what works best for me.

Premo has given me enough info to convince me to try to force down some fairly serious carbs immediately after my workout and then do it again an hour later. Might require an adjustment period. As you suggested, I'll customize it for my own needs. Thanks againh for your help!

Most excellent I love seeing people willing to accept changes and understanding that we all need to find what works for each of us. Very cool because although we can provide advice and give the basics, only you can figure out what works, what your going to stick to and the road to get there. Nice. I'm pleased your willing to try things to find your optimal results