Refeeds and Leptin

**thatguy** · 02-09-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Most people won't need a refeed correct. However, the leaner you get the more often you need to refeed and if you are really lean, then you should incorporate a refeed.

By "really lean", do you mean 5-7% BF?

**Jodi** · 02-09-2005, 01:04 PM

Close to competition lean.

**jaim91** · 02-27-2005, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

As your bodyfat lowers you need to refeed more often.

why?

**SJA** · 02-27-2005, 02:56 PM

Because your leptin levels degrade over time while dieting. You need to revive them or you will begin to catabolize muscle. Keep in mind that everyone has different refeed timing and amounts. You need to experiment.

**jaim91** · 05-01-2005, 01:05 PM

So essentially, what is more effective, carb cycling, or refeeding every 4 days?

**Achilles** · 05-06-2005, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by jaim91

So essentially, what is more effective, carb cycling, or refeeding every 4 days?

It depends on what for diet your on

**jaim91** · 05-06-2005, 05:20 AM

If you're on a normal 2500 calorie a day diet with about 45% coming from carbs, 40 from protein and 15 from fat

**MeLo** · 10-19-2005, 05:47 AM

quick refeed question.

Many people say the count their calories when they do a refeed, while many here says they don't.

What are you take on this?

Second, a person with 8-9% bodyfat looking to get leaner, what would be a appropable refeed frequency.

**Jodi** · 11-29-2005, 10:16 PM

Sorry - I just saw this

The goal is to spill over your glycogen. This will raise leptin and refill your glycogen stores so no, counting is pointless.

An appropriate refeed is to keep your fats as low as possible and on this one day even skip your EFA's - just get plenty of carbs. When I'm dieting and using refeeds, I do 50% complex and 50% simple carbs.

**cpush** · 12-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Jodi, when you refeed, what total % of your calories are coming from carbs?

**Jodi** · 12-11-2005, 01:57 PM

I don't count. It's pointless to as your goal is to overfeed anyway. I just make sure I get appox. 1G protein per lb of bodyweight and keep the fat low and then eat carbs.......alot of carbs.

**FranktheTank** · 12-11-2005, 02:05 PM

by simple you mean the carbs we all like to eat?

**Emma-Leigh** · 12-11-2005, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by FranktheTank

by simple you mean the carbs we all like to eat?

Yup - as long as it is low fat and relatively low in fructose (you need some fructose on a re-feed, but not a lot - and you want to keep it under about 50g) then you can eat up...

So things like kiddy cereal, FF bagels, breads, FF waffles, FF pancakes, FF muffins, FF biscuits, FF ice-creams, pasta, white (or brown if you want) rice, oats etc etc... All good re-feed foods.

**FranktheTank** · 12-11-2005, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Yup - as long as it is low fat and relatively low in fructose (you need some fructose on a re-feed, but not a lot - and you want to keep it under about 50g) then you can eat up...

So things like kiddy cereal, FF bagels, breads, FF waffles, FF pancakes, FF muffins, FF biscuits, FF ice-creams, pasta, white (or brown if you want) rice, oats etc etc... All good re-feed foods.

Mmm sounds good to me. Would I be able to eat these on a high carb day as well, or only if I am doing a refeed? Cause Emma you know Im currently Carb cycling.

**Jodi** · 12-11-2005, 09:37 PM

No, I wouldn't do this on high carb days while carb cycling. This is mainly for people that do keto style diets.

**Moses** · 12-18-2005, 02:00 AM

Hi Jody

I just want to clarify the difference between refeeding and carb cycling high days:

From what I read, if the carb content on days are around the 25% cal intake range, it does not qualify for a "re-feed" as described above. Rather there should be a carb high day with the standard complex carbs (oatmeal, brown rice etc at 50% or so). If the carb content on regular days are extremely low (to the ketogenic stage) then you should refeed as described in your original post. Is that correct?

Also, with the refeed, should any adjustments be made to the exercise schedule? Does it really matter what day / workout the refeed lands on? I am referring to a week schedule of both cardio and resistance training and an off day.

Lastly, in one of Twin Peak's posts, he refers to a supplement LeptiGen (http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/pr...p?productID=5). Any comments about this supplement?

Thanks!!

Moses

**Jodi** · 12-18-2005, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Moses

From what I read, if the carb content on days are around the 25% cal intake range, it does not qualify for a "re-feed" as described above. Rather there should be a carb high day with the standard complex carbs (oatmeal, brown rice etc at 50% or so). If the carb content on regular days are extremely low (to the ketogenic stage) then you should refeed as described in your original post. Is that correct?

Yes, this is positively correct

Good job.

Also, with the refeed, should any adjustments be made to the exercise schedule? Does it really matter what day / workout the refeed lands on? I am referring to a week schedule of both cardio and resistance training and an off day.

Some people like to workout on refeeds in hopes to help keep fat gain to a low. However, personally, I like to workout the next day because that is when I have the most energy.

and the best workouts.

Lastly, in one of Twin Peak's posts, he refers to a supplement LeptiGen (http://magazine.mindandmuscle.net/pr...p?productID=5). Any comments about this supplement?

I used this supplement. It's a supplement that you don't actually notice effects from until the end of your cut. However, during cutting, Leptigen is great from keeping hunger pangs away!

A good thing while cutting.

**Thunder** · 12-18-2005, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

No, I wouldn't do this on high carb days while carb cycling. This is mainly for people that do keto style diets.

Refeeds are just for keto diets?

**Jodi** · 12-18-2005, 01:57 PM

Did you read my article?

People on low carb diets and keto diets.

**Thunder** · 12-18-2005, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Did you read my article?

People on low carb diets and keto diets.

No

What if someone is on a moderate carb diet but low cals? Would you suggest them in that case?

**Moses** · 12-18-2005, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Some people like to workout on refeeds in hopes to help keep fat gain to a low. However, personally, I like to workout the next day because that is when I have the most energy.

and the best workouts.

Hi Jodi

Thanks for the quick response!!

It seems like its a personal preference for the high carb day or refeed whether the workout is on that day or after. However, I am assuming that most people refer to "workout" as resistance training. What if the workout that day is a cardio session? Will having a high carb day on a cardio day be ineffective? or does it matter?

I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I currently do my cardio in a fasted state early AM with my 1st meal 1 hour after. If this would be my high carb day, I would be also at 5% below my maintenance cal intake. Normally I am at 30% below. I'm not sure if by doing intense cardio, the high carb day's effectiveness will be reduced. Again, fat loss is my primary goal.

Thanks!!

Moses

Edit: I should note that I am also doing my resistance training in the morning also in a fasted state (with small dose of protien right after workout, and complete meal 30 mins after). However, after reading many carb cycling articles, they suggest that a high carb meal both *precede* and follow the resistance workout. Would you also suggest this to make the most out of a "high" day as the next day to follow could possibly be cardio, then an off day (for ex. Fri - high carb/weights, sat - lowcarb/cardio , sun low/carb-off...3:1 cycle)

**Jodi** · 12-18-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Thunder

No

What if someone is on a moderate carb diet but low cals? Would you suggest them in that case?

Maybe you should read it.

I would suggest them to increase their cals, not have a refeed. Someone that has been on a low calorie diet for a while can't expect to just have a surge of calories, from a refeed or for that matter even a huge increase in calories, and not expect to have not gained fat. Low calorie diets are not the way to diet.

**Jodi** · 12-18-2005, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Moses

Hi Jodi

Thanks for the quick response!!

It seems like its a personal preference for the high carb day or refeed whether the workout is on that day or after. However, I am assuming that most people refer to "workout" as resistance training. What if the workout that day is a cardio session? Will having a high carb day on a cardio day be ineffective? or does it matter?

I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I currently do my cardio in a fasted state early AM with my 1st meal 1 hour after. If this would be my high carb day, I would be also at 5% below my maintenance cal intake. Normally I am at 30% below. I'm not sure if by doing intense cardio, the high carb day's effectiveness will be reduced. Again, fat loss is my primary goal.

Thanks!!

Moses

You are getting too anal

It's your choice. Try it out all ways and do what works best for you.

**Moses** · 12-18-2005, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

You are getting too anal

It's your choice. Try it out all ways and do what works best for you.

Haha

Very true. Master the basics then the details they say. Ill do just that, try it out all ways!

Thanks!

Moses

**Thunder** · 12-18-2005, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Maybe you should read it.

I would suggest them to increase their cals, not have a refeed. Someone that has been on a low calorie diet for a while can't expect to just have a surge of calories, from a refeed or for that matter even a huge increase in calories, and not expect to have not gained fat. Low calorie diets are not the way to diet.

Ok, my use of the word low was not appropriate. I'm aware that low cal diets are not the way to diet, although I don't believe someone can get fat in one day regardless of circumstances.

Guess I don't see why a refeed can't be used on a moderate carb diet. Then again, my use of the term 'moderate' is rather ambiguous. I'll give it a read.

Edit - well written.

**FranktheTank** · 12-22-2005, 02:18 PM

quick question for high carb days....

i always have plain oatmeal on my low days and was wondering if having maple and brown sugar oatmeal on my high days is bad?

also, basically i can have the carbs i want on high days (except bread) as long as it does not have high fructose corn syrup in it or a lot of carbs coming from sugar right..?

**jillybean** · 12-23-2005, 06:58 PM

So long story short I have severe reactions to sugar these days. It started soon after my 2nd baby-with caffeine-now sugar. After winding up in the hospital for a 'panic attack' I gave up all stimulants-now my dr. says I have to give up sugar due to its effects on my heart/body. So low carb looks like the way to go for me-I've just started today. So my question is-how will I have energy to exercise be it running or weight training? What carbs can I eat and when-I'm all confused but I realize I can't eat sugar anymore-so I've discovered stevia for when I get a sweet tooth--also if I do have fruit I have to combine it with protein/fat-like apples with peanut butter-sugarfree ofcourse! Any input would be appreciated--also I can't take any suppliments due to the stimulation effects on my body which lead to my 'panic attacks'-I don't think they're panic attacks but I just think it's my body rejecting the stimulants be it caffeine or sugar.

**MeLo** · 12-23-2005, 07:28 PM

welcome to IM jillybean.

Firstly, you dont need stimulants on a cut. You need to avoid sugar because of your condition, however, that shouldnt stop you from eating complex carbohydrates.

The list of apporpable carbohydrates can be found in the sticky in the nutritin forum.

Keep avoding caffiene and sugar since your body doesnt need them to survive anyway.

For your refeed, eat complex carbohydrates too. You may need to refeed for a longer time.

Unless you are 200lbs or more, i would start with 250g of carbs to start with. Don't jump into a keto/low carb, you will not be able to stick to it.

From 250g/day, you can cut calories slowly...going down to 200g will give you another deficit of 200 calories when you plateau. Until you are eating less than 1g per pound of bw, i would stick with have a couple of cheat meals(2) a week.

Maybe you dont have a choice of dessert becasue of the sugar. Still, a moderate serving of pizzas(about 4 large slices per cheat meal) looks good.

**Jodi** · 12-23-2005, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by jillybean

So long story short I have severe reactions to sugar these days. It started soon after my 2nd baby-with caffeine-now sugar. After winding up in the hospital for a 'panic attack' I gave up all stimulants-now my dr. says I have to give up sugar due to its effects on my heart/body. So low carb looks like the way to go for me-I've just started today. So my question is-how will I have energy to exercise be it running or weight training? What carbs can I eat and when-I'm all confused but I realize I can't eat sugar anymore-so I've discovered stevia for when I get a sweet tooth--also if I do have fruit I have to combine it with protein/fat-like apples with peanut butter-sugarfree ofcourse! Any input would be appreciated--also I can't take any suppliments due to the stimulation effects on my body which lead to my 'panic attacks'-I don't think they're panic attacks but I just think it's my body rejecting the stimulants be it caffeine or sugar.

Actually, I think refeeding is a bit advanced for you right now. First you need to develop a healthy diet and get sugar out of your diet. I would suggest starting here

Guide to Cutting, Bulking & Maintenance

**jillybean** · 12-24-2005, 04:45 AM

Thanks you guys for replying. I plan to avoid sugar which kinda sucks and kinda doesn't. I grew up on sugar-always binged on it-as a skinny kid and thin adult now I had no reason to stop-but now I do and since now I have 2 kids under 3, I have to take it seriously. I really want to start working out and eating healthy-but low carb since I do and feel so much better when I do. I'm glad I can still eat whole grain oatmeal! I can't eat breads so much as they affect the way I feel. But I do plan on never giving up pizza-after all I'm a NYer!! But I think I'll go 4 days without pizza/breads-then as a 're feed' day I'll have my pizza! Something to look forward to. But now I will dedicate myself to working out-I used to run a lot but stopped due to knee problems-will start lifting weights again and speed walking. I do Billy Blanks Ultimate Boot Camp dvd-have any of you tried it-cardio/weights all in one-awesome! Nice to meet you all!!

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