Thread: Theory vs. Practice...

It could also be that you have amazing metabolism and it doesn't really matter what you eat, you will be thin.

Originally posted by Spency234
It could also be that you have amazing metabolism and it doesn't really matter what you eat, you will be thin.

not quite.

I agree with you about these:
- carbs before bed: you can eat carbs at any time, as long as they fit your carb intake for the day and your caloric ratios

- carbs before cardio: Who the heck came up with this "cardio first thing in the morning" theory? If you're looking to destroy muscular tissue, I guess that would be a good idea.

Peace.

basically... you just keep at your maintenance or below...you'll lose fat along with muscle... you eat well spaced through your day with carbs earlier in your day you will cut and retain more muscle as opposed to getting 3000 cals eating garbage 2 times a day

of course along with lifting day in and day out

i like my fruit and lots of milk which a lot of people don't like, it is kinda weird but when i don't eat fruit i seem to gain weight(bad weight). i like to chow an apple preworkout and a banana post workout.
as for carbs i try to limit my carbs around bedtime cause i use up most of my carb limits pre and post wo, and i got really cut up doing the morning cardio sessions before eating

I agree with nate to a certain degree. I think it all depends on the person and there matobolism though. For me if I wanted to I could eat bad carbs late a night without it being a problem, but for how long? Only you are going to know this. I have eaten krispy kream donuts late a night along with startchy carbs and never gained weight doing it. That is me though and its not done every night or every week just once in while. Again I think its has to do with what you can get away with. What might work for you is probablly not going to work someone else. This is my 2 cents. Oh and the whole protein bar thing. I have eaten protein bars for the last 7 months and I love them. I do agree that they are not the best source of protein or food for you.

Here is my take on this...everyone is different but I think people are WAY TOO PARANOID of carbs.

I eat carbs (slow burners like oatmeal) before bed during a "regular" cut and am fine...just fit them into your daily numbers.

I consume Cottage Cheese during a cut...and before bed....I think it's a great food...I'm skeptical about the whole water retention thing you hear...maybe a few weeks out from a comp but not for the normal cutting plan.

Protein bars are fine in moderation...if you can do it like that...I myself find they trigger me to overeat.

Cardio anytime is better than none at all....so if that means eating beforehand...eat. Although I think it helps to do it w/o the carbs...just me.

Fruits are fine to eat in a cut and bulk.....just avoid tropical fruits.

Aspartame is totally fine including on a comp diet until maybe a weeek or two out.

THERE ARE MORE...but I can stop here.

Key is do things in moderation and in such a way that allows you to stay on track.

AND THESE ARE JUST MY OPINIONS ON HOW THINGS WORK FOR ME....so it could be different for others.

also i might suggest if you are successful while not listening to theory.... what could you do if you listened?

Theories work differently for different people....we all need to try different strategies to see what works best.

Originally posted by Jemal
also i might suggest if you are successful while not listening to theory.... what could you do if you listened?

i addressed that in my initial post. it makes no difference, that's the point of this thread.

also, sometimes i eat about 6 slices of whole-grain bread in place of things such as sweet potatoes, brown rice and oatmeal. i've noticed that for ME this makes no difference, as long as carbs remain constant.

and fit freak, exactly. that's the idea i'm going for in this thread. i've dieted perfectly before...to the t. but i've since learned that I can do certain things, like the things i've mentioned, and get by just as well.

So true....that's why theory doen't also apply universally for everyone...truth is I think many more people could try different things but get caught up in what the "articles" say...often...actually much of the time...there's very very little evidence to support bodubuilding theories.....most of the time the studies are flawed (snall sample, not controlled, too many variables, etc) or they're purely based on ANECDOTAL evidence.

This is an interesting thread, would you guys care to elaborate on what other things might not be critically important for some people ?

I'm all for experimenting to see which things are important for me, and no-one should have to live with a spartan diet if certain things are not critical for them.

For example I too stopped limiting carbs to earlier in the day, and I think it actually helped me. Now I have a bowl of porridge before bed everynight, and I think it gives me important energy for muscle building during the night, along with my casein.

(On a side note, there's nothing wrong with too much porridge is there? I eat like 2 - 4 bowls a day - inside my calorific allowance obviously).

Nice Thread

The biggest thing that people have trouble with is finding what works for THEM. I've learned what works for me and what doesn't and protein bars, am cardio and carbs at bed DO NOT work for me but it doesn't mean that it won't work for others. People don't take the time to experiment. They just want results fast so they follow ridiculous canned diets and then wonder why they didn't get the same resuts as so and so. We are all different and finding your niche` is part of the fun in this.

Jodi...WELL SAID.

Originally posted by Fit Freak
Protein bars are fine in moderation...if you can do it like that...I myself find they trigger me to overeat.

yes, moderation.. maybe 1-2 bars a week

what's you'r favorite bar?

Don't really have a favorite since a rarely eat them...so most taste ok when I DO decide to get one....but to try and answer....Detours are OK...but there a new kind out...forget who makes them....that uses actually granola and whole wheat and stuff....very evry good...just cannot remember the name. I cannot stand U-Turns, Meso Tech or Nitro Tech bars, oh...I like most of the Labrada bars esp the peanut butter....and the peacan pie

I usually save the bars for times when I'm going out with friends and need to bring something along without looking like a whacko and bringing tuna...lol...or when going to a movie or something.

So the trainer was right, when he said that I can eat anything I want as long as I stay with my calories recommendations and use 20-25 %protein, 60-65% carbs, 15% Fat ratio and that will lead to fat loss and muscle gain

Originally posted by Fit Freak
but there a new kind out...forget who makes them....that uses actually granola and whole wheat and stuff....very evry good...just cannot remember the name.

You mean Trioplex??


I usually save the bars for times when I'm going out with friends and need to bring something along without looking like a whacko and bringing tuna...lol...or when going to a movie or something.

Not necessarily...I still recommend eating quality foods...but it's the timing that I'm less picky on...I feel that as long as cals and macros are within your limitsand you eat quality natural foods...carbs are ok later in the day and night....it'll depend on your metabolism though.

I'm not sure if I have a high or slow metabolism

Originally posted by Nate
Sometimes I feel like people make too big of a deal about certain things with respect to diet/nutrition; the GI of a certain carbohydrate, the timing of nutrient intake, etc. I think the human body is a far more efficient machine than we tend to give it credit for.

What do you do that's frowned upon in theory, but when applied to yourself it has little if any negative effects on your goals?

For me I do each of the following and I've still achieved considerable success:

I eat protein bars with glycerin and sugar alcohols probably five times a week.

I eat carbohydrates before bed.

I eat carbohydrates before a morning cardio session when I'm trying to lose weight.

I have a few more but they've slipped my mind at the moment.

Now, before you go on asking the question "well, what if you DIDN'T eat carbs before your morning cardio? i bet that would accelerate fatloss." well, that's not true. i've tried it. it makes no difference. it's the macronutrient ratios at the
end of the day that matter for me.

I look forward to your responses.

All these factor do not matter IMO. Though I am anti pbar. During this cut I have included my PW spike which includes 50+ of simple carbs. I am loosing 1 lb a week. It is overall calorie balance which will allow weight gain or weightloss.

I am over 40 and I want every “edge” I can get working for me. In my opinion once you are over 30 it’s all about quality nutritional intake, growth inducing activities and coaxing your metabolism to remain high with every trick you can think of. I liken it to “banking” your fitness level. I want to keep improving and leveraging the natural concept of “momentum” to work for me. But even with momentum, if I break habit and deviate more than a week and do not stay on top of my plan %110 percent then my bio-engine wants to wind down to a much lower set point. Even when I am “in the groove” progress is often a stair-step like pattern – fat loss-plateau-fat loss etc. When I fall out of the groove it’s similar – fat gain-stability-fat gain etc. Each person has their own tolerance factors for different kinds of foods and change of activities. It’s never a static relationship. It all changes dynamically with age, attitude/mental-state, general health (e.g. sickness), stress (both constructive and destructive forms) and rest. In a matter of speaking, the way I see it, you are either growing or you are dieing (dieing defined as: getting fat, atrophying, reducing quality of life, weakening your immune system and setting yourself up to develop various diseases or medical conditions).

A simple mental model is to think of the metabolism as a large flywheel that spins at a certain RPM sufficient to sustain your daily needs. It gradually spins up faster to regulate more energy for increased demand (it needs to spin less proportionally fast the more mass the wheel has). No matter how efficiently your personal bio-engine operates it will always take a certain percentage of its fuel from each source: circulating blood-sugars/glycogen, protein sources (indirectly), and fat stores (indirectly). The trick is trying to figure out personally what foods and activities are best able to induce your body to convert larger and larger percentages of fat as a preferred fuel. As you age the fly wheel wants to slow down (have my own theories on why). If you begin to lose lean tissue through atrophy then it’s even worse – the flywheel gets smaller and looses mass and you will need to increase activities to produce the same daily energy load or it slows down (E=1/2MV^2) and provides a feedback (biological signals from various hormones) to the brain to reduce activities or slow down. If my mechanical analogy holds even in part you get most “bang for the buck” by keeping the speed up (metabolism) due to the power-of-two factor. This probably accounts for why the thin guys are not as impacted as negatively by eating proportionally large quantities of food since they are always in “high-gear” and constantly very mobile and active.

Just some of my thoughts to spin up the boards.
OD

Good thread...

Protein shakes keep me more satisfied than eating meat while dieting. They limit food binges. Normally the opposite is suggested, especially for an ecto to gain mass. Drink the cals.

Fat may have a 'decent' long term satiety signal, but does little to limit my appetite. The same can be said of most protein sources.

I have had no problems cutting with a high saturated fat intake and with the inclusion of large amounts of dairy products (generally low carb though).

Processed diet foods, sugar alcohols, promise butter (veggie oils +rice starch), all work fine cutting. Same goes for artificial sweeteners, diet sodas, sf jello and all the other standard diet aids.

Eating clean foods (like oatmeal and brown rice) with a moderate caloric surplus does not necessarily lead to a lean bulk.

Others I may think of.

-C

Originally posted by OceanDude
I am over 40 and I want every “edge” I can get working for me. In my opinion once you are over 30 it’s all about quality nutritional intake, growth inducing activities and coaxing your metabolism to remain high with every trick you can think of. I liken it to “banking” your fitness level. I want to keep improving and leveraging the natural concept of “momentum” to work for me. But even with momentum, if I break habit and deviate more than a week and do not stay on top of my plan %110 percent then my bio-engine wants to wind down to a much lower set point. Even when I am “in the groove” progress is often a stair-step like pattern – fat loss-plateau-fat loss etc. When I fall out of the groove it’s similar – fat gain-stability-fat gain etc. Each person has their own tolerance factors for different kinds of foods and change of activities. It’s never a static relationship. It all changes dynamically with age, attitude/mental-state, general health (e.g. sickness), stress (both constructive and destructive forms) and rest. In a matter of speaking, the way I see it, you are either growing or you are dieing (dieing defined as: getting fat, atrophying, reducing quality of life, weakening your immune system and setting yourself up to develop various diseases or medical conditions).

That's very well put.

I've reached a point where I think it's best for me mentally and physically to maintain my current bodyweight and bodyfat percentage. If I had to wager a guess, I'd say that I carry about 8-9 pounds more muscle than my body would like to (genetic setpoint) and probably about 4-5% less bodyfat than it would like to. I've found that because of the reasons you've listed, it's very difficult to
maintain a certain look. The body is in constant fluctuation and maintaining exactly what you have is virtually impossible. IMO, it's most difficult to maintain because there isn't anything you can do radically to your diet to produce the desired results. For example, when adding muscle mass, we simply increase weight and calories, and when we want to lose some fat we decrease calories and increase activity, generally speaking. But to maintain is far trickier. I have to manipulate my diet on a daily basis given the environmental changes thrown at me. I constantly fight my body's desire to replace muscle with fat. If I go too low on calories for too long, that's usually what happens, and if I go too high I'll slowly add to my waistline with perhaps a small bit of muscle gain. But for me personally, with such small fluctuations, it's generally fat that'll be dominant. I've also found that if I have a controlled cheat and try to make up for it with cardio, my body fights back and it fights back hard. What will happen is, I'll end up storing say 30-40 grams of fat as a result of a cheat, then the next morning I'll wake up, do cardio, and end up burning 20 grams of fat and 20 grams of muscle. Not good. It's tough, but my advice is this. LEARN WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!

any more thoughts?

Personally I know that I "get off" on counting calories and eating the best foods. For me it is another way to challenge myself both mental and physically. I know that I am in 100% control of my body.

I hate eating. I am fortunate as both of my parents where health nuts and athletes in college. I was raised to treat food as fuel. My father used to make my drink protein drinks, BCAA, Arginine/ Ornithine and take EFA's since back in the early 80's. Because of the dieting practices that I have learned and follow I can achieve maximum gains on the minimum amount of foods that I consume. I don't really care how the foods that I cook taste. shit I'm 240 @ 11% right now and only consume 2750 cals a day...

^ Wow. How do you manage to do that? That's how much I maintain with at 175 pounds.

Peace.