Thread: splitting hairs.

What type of simple sugars?

currently maltodextrin...I have a 5 lb tub to get through.

this is the protocol that I follow.

when training early am and do not have the time to wait for solid foods to digest:

whey protein & maltodextrinm, then I hit the gym in 20 minutes

when training any other time of the day:

whole protein & complex carbs - wait 1.5 hours then consume whey & water (or 20 grams BCAA's), then hit the gym

Post WO:

hydrolized whey protein, maltodextrin & dextrose, 100 mg r-ALA, 6 grams EPA & DHA - wait 30 minutes then consume 20 grams BCAA's

I love maltodextrin.
Anyway, IMO option 1, without the "during workout shake" is the best choice.

Originally posted by sentricyphen
Currently I am eating a pre w/o solid meal, and a post w/o solid meal, with a during w/o shake--consisting of simple sugars and whey...

I know this will require some subjective replies...

Which, in your personal oppinions is optimal...

A pre & post shake, 45 mins before & after workout, with no during workout shake --or-- the way I am currently using?

A during WO shake would only be necessary if you were doing a long training session, like 1.5-2 hours. Then it would help to reduce catabolism but you would most likely still have elevated serum cortisol levels after even with the use of a post WO insulin spike...

So LAM, you would also say to go with pre/post shakes & no during shake--except maybe on leg day?


My reasoning for not having pre and post shakes is simply that it would seem better to have more "real" food in the diet. Still considering the options.

nah...no need for that, unless your leg day is unusually long.

pre WO is what's most important to reduce and possibly eliminate muscle catabolism during the training session. and post WO is optimum for recovery so the body can get back to a anabolic state ASAP...

You mentioned you use a pre workout shake with malto. Wouldn't you burn out in the middle of a workout?

i eat solid foods an hour before, drink a during shake, but only with like 5-10 minutes left in my workout, then a bowl of cream of wheat with a banana right after i workout, then about 30 minutes after that i eat a solid meal of about 60-75 grams carbs, and 35-40 grams protein. Is this pretty good protocol, i have been having relatively good success with this. Also how long does it take a whey and dextrose shake to reach your muscles after your workout?

i go with the fast absorbing whey before and after my workouts. i dont do a during shake because my workouts really arent even that long. on back day i'm done in 35-45 mins.

pre shake- 1 scoop whey, 3 tbs maltodextrin, 2tsp glutamine
post shake- 2 scoops whey, 8tbs maltodextrin, 2 tsp glutamine

Originally posted by LAM


pre WO is what's most important to reduce and possibly eliminate muscle catabolism during the training session. and post WO is optimum for recovery so the body can get back to a anabolic state ASAP...

werd

Originally posted by LAM
this is the protocol that I follow.

...

Post WO:

hydrolized whey protein, maltodextrin & dextrose, 100 mg r-ALA, 6 grams EPA & DHA - wait 30 minutes then consume 20 grams BCAA's

LAM, you seem like a very knowledgable guy and you've helped educate me with many of your posts. But, since the title of this thread is "Splitting Hairs", I have to question your use of the Omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, with your Post Work Out meal. I agree that we need them. It simply seems like bad timing to me. Taken at this time, they would tend to slow down the the shuttling of protein to muscles, wouldn't they?

I also try not to consume fat and carbs simultaneously to avoid the possibility of fat storage. Do you consider this possibility rather negligible PWO?

Originally posted by sentricyphen
You mentioned you use a pre workout shake with malto. Wouldn't you burn out in the middle of a workout?

for early AM weight trainers it's common practice. but it's something that you have to experiment with to find out if it is optimum for you. you don't have to worry about insulin spiking as the release of catecholamines at the onset of exercise prevents that.

IMO.. for early am training low GI carbs just take to long to be digested. if I were to eat a serving of oats (which take 1.5 hours to be completly digested) I would be finished the WO and home before the majority of the glucose from them would be available for energy..

Originally posted by Downtown Guy
LAM, you seem like a very knowledgable guy and you've helped educate me with many of your posts. But, since the title of this thread is "Splitting Hairs", I have to question your use of the Omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, with your Post Work Out meal. I agree that we need them. It simply seems like bad timing to me. Taken at this time, they would tend to slow down the the shuttling of protein to muscles, wouldn't they?

I also try not to consume fat and carbs simultaneously to avoid the possibility of fat storage. Do you consider this possibility rather negligible PWO?

I know that the consumption of Omegas 3's will slow gastric emptying when consumed with whey and glucose bases sugars. however I have found that when I combine EPA/DHA with my BCAA's supplementation PWO I have completely eliminated DOMS.

Personally, I have no desire to be sore everyday so it stick by that protocol for myself...

Originally posted by LAM
I know that the consumption of Omegas 3's will slow gastric emptying when consumed with whey and glucose bases sugars. however I have found that when I combine EPA/DHA with my BCAA's supplementation PWO I have completely eliminated DOMS.

Personally, I have no desire to be sore everyday so it stick by that protocol for myself...

I dont have trouble with DOMS... Maybe it has to do with the immense ammount of sleep I get, as well as many other factors, but I think if I start this I will go without the EFAs.

ever since i started chowin' down a crap load of carbs in my pwo window i have noticed that i don't get sore anymore, especially after leg days

Originally posted by sentricyphen
I dont have trouble with DOMS... Maybe it has to do with the immense ammount of sleep I get, as well as many other factors, but I think if I start this I will go without the EFAs.

I don't have a problem with DOMS "except" when I am cutting. I am now at 2,750 cals a day my lifts are still increasing and I have zero DOMS...

Originally posted by LAM
I don't have a problem with DOMS "except" when I am cutting. I am now at 2,750 cals a day my lifts are still increasing and I have zero DOMS...

why are the calories so low?

i seem to not be losing anything anymore myself...
i'm either going to take a week of maintenance, b/c ive been cutting for about a month.... or I will have to drop cals more, I'm really not sure what to do, since I've never gotten stuck like this before, and this is probably my 10th cut or something...any advice on that one?

since I'm not working right now my energy expenditure outside of the gym is nothing besides cooking. I'm right around the bare minimum for cals for my size, plus I really don't like to eat..

Originally posted by sentricyphen
why are the calories so low?

i seem to not be losing anything anymore myself...
i'm either going to take a week of maintenance, b/c ive been cutting for about a month.... or I will have to drop cals more, I'm really not sure what to do, since I've never gotten stuck like this before, and this is probably my 10th cut or something...any advice on that one?

maybe you should try overfeeding for a week (cals at 110% of maintenance) then go back down.

what type of cardio are you doing if any ?

yeah I will consider that.

I might be eating too many calories myself, as I am in the same situation as you...I used to be BW*17, that was right after I finished bulking, and during school... I'd hate to waste more time trying to calc maintenance...it took like 2 weeks last time...I guess I will just slowly drop cals after taking a week off, regardless of the fact that I have no acurate way of knowing my maintenance.

I do 30 mins of cardio 2X a week. moderate intensity, I do it on the elpitical.

Id like to do it 3x but, the gym is only open 6 days a week.

Originally posted by LAM
plus I really don't like to eat..

LAM that is almost sacreligious, i love eating, and if i didn't workout and eat healthily i would easily weigh 225+, I guess it also works out well cause i enjoy cooking so i can combine both

the more you eat the fuller your muscles will look, and less chance of muscle breakdown.

i dont like eating either though.

damn i love eating co much i could easily chow down 5,000-5,500 of clean food