To Whey or not to Whey, that is the question?

BulkMeUp · 08-11-2004, 09:40 AM

I have been reading some of the threads on whey and need a clarification about my protein powder.

Presently i only use whey. I do one scoop, 3times a day. this us my current diet briefly to show protein sources:
Meal1-breakfast : 1cup (dry) oatmeal + 1scoop whey+ 1cup whole milk
Meal2-protein from chicken/meat
Meal3-1scoop whey+ 3tbsp olive oil + 1apple
Meal4-
(on off days)1 cup pasta + 3tbsp pasta sauce + 1scoop whey
(on workout days) 3slices ww bread + veggie spread as preworkout and 1scoop whey +2tbsp dextrose + creatine as a PWO shake
Meal5-protein from tuna
Meal6-protein from cottage cheese.

This diet is being analysed/reworked but my question regards M1, M3 and M4. As a PWO shake i understand the whey is fine. What about the other times? should i buy egg or casein protein for those meals, or are the combinations in which they are taken ok?

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 02:04 PM

Whats your weight/height? And are you bulking?

BulkMeUp · 08-11-2004, 02:58 PM

Weight 175/bf26% (according to a bf scale).. presently bulking, but will be transitioning to a cut in 3-4 weeks. The protein scoops and meal combos in my cut plan are almost identical to the above meals, except i shall be gradually reducing carbs n fats.

QuestionGuy · 08-11-2004, 04:04 PM

i didnt read you thread, but i say " WHEY !!! u idiot !!!

lol, sorry jk

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 04:12 PM

For the original question, yeah, whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein, which might give slightly more stable insulin levels... but its minimal to the point of being insignificant imo. Especially so when you consider the price and the fact that youre bulking.

And that diet does need some help.

atherjen · 08-11-2004, 04:28 PM

how much protein per scoop?

you diet needs a bit of overhaul as well....
-switch the whole milk to at least 2% or less.
-add some veggies to meal 2, as well as some of that olive oil in meal 3. 3tablespoons at once is far far too much.
-meal 3, as said decrease the olive oil. Add them to meals 5 and 6 equally. I also wouldnt rely on olive oil as your main EFA source all the time. try to alternate other sources.
-what sort of pasta in meal 4?
-why no protein in meal 4 on workout days? Personally I wouldnt be relying on ww bread as a carb source so often... whole grain would be better. or even better brown/wild rice or sweet potatoes or oatmeal.

Jeff98 · 08-11-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

For the original question, yeah, whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein, which might give slightly more stable insulin levels... but its minimal to the point of being insignificant imo. Especially so when you consider the price and the fact that youre bulking.

And that diet does need some help.

Whey IS a Milk Protein dude. 20% of the protein in milk is whey the other 80% is casein.

http://www.wheyoflife.org/faq.cfm#1

Jeff98 · 08-11-2004, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atherjen

... olive oil in meal 3. 3tablespoons at once is far far too much.

Absolutely, ~360 fat calories in one slam dunk.

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff98

Whey IS a Milk Protein dude. 20% of the protein in milk is whey the other 80% is casein.

http://www.wheyoflife.org/faq.cfm#1

wtf?

There is no casein in whey. "milk protein" typically refers to something like this: http://www.blackstarlabs.com/?products_id=337

Whereas whey refers to something like this: http://www.blackstarlabs.com/?cPath=21&products_id=150

Think about it... why the fuck would i say "milk protein" instead of the whey?

Jeff98 · 08-11-2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

wtf?

There is no casein in whey. "milk protein" typically refers to something like this: http://www.blackstarlabs.com/?products_id=337

Whereas whey refers to something like this: http://www.blackstarlabs.com/?cPath=21&products_id=150

Think about it... why the fuck would i say "milk protein" instead of the whey?

Both casein and whey are "Milk Proteins", that's WTF.

aggies1ut · 08-11-2004, 05:23 PM

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly Jeff98. You are correct that whey is derived from milk, but when most speak of "milk protein," they are referring to casein or blends of protein powder containing casein.

Jeff98 · 08-11-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggies1ut

I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly Jeff98. You are correct that whey is derived from milk, but when most speak of "milk protein," they are referring to casein or blends of protein powder containing casein.

Monolith started out by saying that "...whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein..."

I was simply trying to point out that casein and whey are BOTH milk proteins. I was simply trying to make this clear to anyone who did not already know this. Monolith made it sound like casein or milk protein was an alternative to whey, when in reality, they are both milk protein. That's all.

BulkMeUp · 08-11-2004, 05:45 PM

Monolith:

Quote:

For the original question, yeah, whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein, which might give slightly more stable insulin levels... but its minimal to the point of being insignificant imo. Especially so when you consider the price and the fact that youre bulking.

And that diet does need some help.

thanks, if there is negligable diff in doing other kinds of protein, then i might as well stick to the whey. The reason i asked the question in this thread about whey is coz i read in another thread that it was suggested to go for egg or casein pro powders while on a cut. If it would make a significant diff, i would do it. ALso being an ecto, eating whole foods is not very easy for me. Hence the whey shakes.

Actually i hv been getting my upcommng cutting diet in shape here http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=35035 (Need help with my first cutting diet, please!)

atherjen:

Quote:

--add some veggies to meal 2, as well as some of that olive oil in meal 3. 3tablespoons at once is far far too much.
-meal 3, as said decrease the olive oil. Add them to meals 5 and 6 equally. I also wouldnt rely on olive oil as your main EFA source all the time. try to alternate other sources.
-what sort of pasta in meal 4?
-why no protein in meal 4 on workout days? Personally I wouldnt be relying on ww bread as a carb source so often... whole grain would be better. or even better brown/wild rice or sweet potatoes or oatmeal.

meal 3 was 1cup (dry) oats.. but i felt very bloated with all those carbs and decided to get the cals from olive oil as my fat intake was below 25%. But u are right, i should spread it out more evenly. I also do 4 fish oil caps (2 per meal) in addition to the olive oil.
Pasta is just regular pasta. i know i should be doing ww pasta. but couldnt get some at my local grocer. Will look elsewhere for it.
Protein in m4 is shown differently above as on workout days i take it as a pwo shake, otherwise with the rest of my meal. Also i will ditch the bread for potato.

Jeff98 :

Quote:

Absolutely, ~360 fat calories in one slam dunk.

I agree. I felt quite bloated with the carbs and decided to get my cals through the oil. But, yes, i will spread it out.

BulkMeUp · 08-11-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff98

Monolith started out by saying that "...whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein..."

He probably meant "...buy some sort of casein or egg protein..." As that is what i was asking about in my original question. But thanks for the clarification, though.

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff98

Monolith started out by saying that "...whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein..."

I was simply trying to point out that casein and whey are BOTH milk proteins. I was simply trying to make this clear to anyone who did not already know this. Monolith made it sound like casein or milk protein was an alternative to whey, when in reality, they are both milk protein. That's all.

Let's try and simplify this, shall we?

Example:
"I enjoy riding ducati's, but you might prefer a harley." Now, using your bumblefuck logic, you'd reply to that with "BUT DUED WAIT DUCATI'S AND HARLEYS R BOTH MOTORCYCLES!!! U LOSE!!!" Slightly reminiscent of something an inbred monkey living in chernobyl might grunt, eh?

Regardless, why the fuck are you still arguing about such a retarded subject after i already told you what i meant? If you'd stop swinging from my nuts for 5 minutes and go notice that Milk Protein is labeled as Milk Protein on just about every supplement website, maybe you would have shut the fuck up by this point.

Vieope · 08-11-2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

Let's try and simplify this, shall we?
Example:
"I enjoy riding ducati's, but you might prefer a harley." Now, using your bumblefuck logic, you'd reply to that with "BUT DUED WAIT DUCATI'S AND HARLEYS R BOTH MOTORCYCLES!!! U LOSE!!!" Slightly reminiscent of something an inbred monkey living in chernobyl might grunt, eh?

The correct analogy would be if one of those where known as motorcycles and if the other wasn´t, which doesn´t happen, like casein is known as milk protein, which has two, I said two, denominations A=protein B=milk, so you really can´t use the motorcycle example, because it just has one, I said one, denomination. You see Monolith ? I just wanna waste your time.

aztecwolf · 08-11-2004, 08:17 PM

why do you want to bulk at 26% bf?

Vieope · 08-11-2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztecwolf

why do you want to bulk at 26% bf?

He measured in a digital scale, which is probably wrong. Probably he is not even near that.

BulkMeUp · 08-11-2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztecwolf

why do you want to bulk at 26% bf?

Exactly what Vieope said.

As per the booklet that came with the scale, above 25% is considered obese. I dont think i am obese and have always been a skinny-ass

, but i am presently a bit thick in the middle. So take a peek at my pic in my gallery and tell me if u think i am obese or living in denial

When i started this bulk on 22feb04 i was 155/26% (height 6ft). if i lost any weight, i would be nothing more than a walking noodle!! So i decided to forget looking great for now and concentrate on bulking. In the past 5 and half months i calc (with my present stats) i put on 14lb lbm and 6lb fat. I think that is pretty good. But let me know if u think otherwise.

Vieope · 08-11-2004, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Exactly what Vieope said.

Thanks for fixing that up.

**P-funk** · 08-11-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aztecwolf

why do you want to bulk at 26% bf?

there is always room to bulk up.

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vieope

The correct analogy would be if one of those where known as motorcycles and if the other wasn´t, which doesn´t happen, like casein is known as milk protein, which has two, I said two, denominations A=protein B=milk, so you really can´t use the motorcycle example, because it just has one, I said one, denomination. You see Monolith ? I just wanna waste your time.

"People like Vieope are weird, but brazilians are pretty cool."

Does that work?

Vieope · 08-11-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monolith

"People like Vieope are weird, but brazilians are pretty cool."

Does that work?

Hey, who said that?

Monolith · 08-11-2004, 09:34 PM

P-funk

Vieope · 08-11-2004, 09:37 PM

I knew it!

**Pirate!** · 08-14-2004, 01:56 PM

Milk naturally has approximately 20% whey and 80% casein, just like the kind Monolith posted a link of. "Milk" protein shakes should be derived directly from milk and therefore have these amounts of each of the two proteins found in milk. Milk protein is not something blended after the fact. It naturally occurs with that ratio.

bulletproof1 · 08-14-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff98

Monolith started out by saying that "...whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein..."

I was simply trying to point out that casein and whey are BOTH milk proteins. I was simply trying to make this clear to anyone who did not already know this. Monolith made it sound like casein or milk protein was an alternative to whey, when in reality, they are both milk protein. That's all.

jeff, i believe your point is irrelevant. i knew what monolith meant by his post when i first read it. he is a person who likes a slower protein like casein on occasion. read more posts and you will learn very quickly which types of things different people live by around here.

aflexaholic · 08-14-2004, 03:47 PM

bulk me up,

If i was in your position i would not worry about "bulking up" you can build yourself quality muscle without gaining any more bodyfat. I would focus on possibly gaining weight while holding the same bodyfat or even decreasing it a smudge. If your nutrients are timed right this is definitly obtainable. This is what GOPRO had me do when he first started working on me. I was getting angry because i wasnt even gaining weight but then i checked my bodyfat and it was down 3 percent and i hadnt lost a pound. This means i gained a fair amount of muscle without risking more fat

BulkMeUp · 08-15-2004, 10:02 AM

Thanks aflexaholic.
By "bulking up" i meant increasing lbm and simultaneously keeping fat gain to a min. Do u have a link to the thread where u discussed your diet?

LAM · 08-15-2004, 12:35 PM

you need to eat more whole food protein source to aid in loss of body fat. they have a much higher thermogenic effect than protein powders. they will also keep you satisfied longer which definetly helps to control the appetite and makes it easier to stick to a lower calorie diet...

08-11-2004, 02:04 PM	#2
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Whats your weight/height? And are you bulking? http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

08-11-2004, 02:58 PM	#3
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,636	Weight 175/bf26% (according to a bf scale).. presently bulking, but will be transitioning to a cut in 3-4 weeks. The protein scoops and meal combos in my cut plan are almost identical to the above meals, except i shall be gradually reducing carbs n fats. Last edited by BulkMeUp : 08-11-2004 at 03:17 PM.

08-11-2004, 04:12 PM	#5
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	For the original question, yeah, whey is fine. If you were feeling especially anal, you could buy some sort of casein or milk protein, which might give slightly more stable insulin levels... but its minimal to the point of being insignificant imo. Especially so when you consider the price and the fact that youre bulking. And that diet does need some help. http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

08-11-2004, 04:28 PM	#6
atherjen DS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: MS Posts: 5,757	how much protein per scoop? you diet needs a bit of overhaul as well.... -switch the whole milk to at least 2% or less. -add some veggies to meal 2, as well as some of that olive oil in meal 3. 3tablespoons at once is far far too much. -meal 3, as said decrease the olive oil. Add them to meals 5 and 6 equally. I also wouldnt rely on olive oil as your main EFA source all the time. try to alternate other sources. -what sort of pasta in meal 4? -why no protein in meal 4 on workout days? Personally I wouldnt be relying on ww bread as a carb source so often... whole grain would be better. or even better brown/wild rice or sweet potatoes or oatmeal. " To dream anything you want to dream: That is the beauty of the human mind. To do anything you want to do: That is the strength of the human will. To trust yourself to test your limits: that is the courage to succeed." NPC Southern Classic, June 3rd NPC Cajun Classic, June 10th NPC Mississippi State July 22nd

08-11-2004, 08:17 PM	#17
aztecwolf Sackin' up every day Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: san diego Posts: 1,267 Photos: 3	why do you want to bulk at 26% bf? -Sack Up- "If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall

08-11-2004, 09:40 AM	#1
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,636	To Whey or not to Whey, that is the question? I have been reading some of the threads on whey and need a clarification about my protein powder. Presently i only use whey. I do one scoop, 3times a day. this us my current diet briefly to show protein sources: Meal1-breakfast : 1cup (dry) oatmeal + 1scoop whey+ 1cup whole milk Meal2-protein from chicken/meat Meal3-1scoop whey+ 3tbsp olive oil + 1apple Meal4- (on off days)1 cup pasta + 3tbsp pasta sauce + 1scoop whey (on workout days) 3slices ww bread + veggie spread as preworkout and 1scoop whey +2tbsp dextrose + creatine as a PWO shake Meal5-protein from tuna Meal6-protein from cottage cheese. This diet is being analysed/reworked but my question regards M1, M3 and M4. As a PWO shake i understand the whey is fine. What about the other times? should i buy egg or casein protein for those meals, or are the combinations in which they are taken ok?

08-11-2004, 04:04 PM	#4
QuestionGuy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,741	i didnt read you thread, but i say " WHEY !!! u idiot !!! lol, sorry jk

08-11-2004, 05:23 PM	#11
aggies1ut NorCal Elite Member* Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sacramento, Ca. Posts: 3,580 Photos: 19	I'm not sure what you are referring to exactly Jeff98. You are correct that whey is derived from milk, but when most speak of "milk protein," they are referring to casein or blends of protein powder containing casein.

08-11-2004, 09:34 PM	#24
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	P-funk http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

08-11-2004, 09:37 PM	#25
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,967 Photos: 10	I knew it!

08-14-2004, 01:56 PM	#26
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,172	Milk naturally has approximately 20% whey and 80% casein, just like the kind Monolith posted a link of. "Milk" protein shakes should be derived directly from milk and therefore have these amounts of each of the two proteins found in milk. Milk protein is not something blended after the fact. It naturally occurs with that ratio. My 1-Andro RX Journal

08-14-2004, 03:47 PM	#28
aflexaholic HM Gear-ALRI-AGR PM for $ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ventura (next door to ironman) Posts: 41	bulk me up, If i was in your position i would not worry about "bulking up" you can build yourself quality muscle without gaining any more bodyfat. I would focus on possibly gaining weight while holding the same bodyfat or even decreasing it a smudge. If your nutrients are timed right this is definitly obtainable. This is what GOPRO had me do when he first started working on me. I was getting angry because i wasnt even gaining weight but then i checked my bodyfat and it was down 3 percent and i hadnt lost a pound. This means i gained a fair amount of muscle without risking more fat

08-15-2004, 10:02 AM	#29
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,636	Thanks aflexaholic. By "bulking up" i meant increasing lbm and simultaneously keeping fat gain to a min. Do u have a link to the thread where u discussed your diet?

08-15-2004, 12:35 PM	#30
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	you need to eat more whole food protein source to aid in loss of body fat. they have a much higher thermogenic effect than protein powders. they will also keep you satisfied longer which definetly helps to control the appetite and makes it easier to stick to a lower calorie diet... Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

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