Du

Heres something thats been bothering me...

Like most lifters, I take a whey shake after lifting. My problem is, I live about 20 min away from my gym. By the time I get in and mix it up, thats at least 30 or so min after I stop lifting.

I hear people talking about chugging their whey AS SOON AS theyre done lifting. How do you guys do this? I cant keep it in the car, its too hot. I cant get it at my gym, its a YMCA.

Any suggestions?

My IronMag Journal

LAM

is there some way you can freeze a portion of the water needed so by the time you are done training it will all be liquid and still cold ?

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?

Du

Thats a good thought... I like to use milk though, not water.

My IronMag Journal

LAM

you shouldn't be using milk most workout, it slows the absorption of whey proteins. the purpose of using whey proteins is that they enter the bloodstream very rapidly in about 20 minutes when mixed with water and consumed on an empty stomach. when there is a sharp increase in amino acid (AA) concentration in the bloodstream protein synthesis is increased.

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?

Du

Well then.... frozen water it is

Thanks very much.

My IronMag Journal

squanto

and hey.. if that doesnt work out, its not gonna kill you waiting 30 minutes. i dont even use whey, so its sometimes almost an hour before my post workout meal. post workout shakes are helpful, but you dont NEED them by any means.

LAM

sure you don't need them but if want to make the best out of your training you will use whey & carbs post workout. the data is out there and can not be disputed...

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?

Purdue Power

You could always pack it in a small cooler. I put my shake in a shaker bottle and surround it in ice in a pitcher and leave it in my car. Even on hot days, there is still plenty of ice left.

5'8 1/2, 225lbs

Your M1T Info Source

Dream as though you'll live forever,
Live each day like it's you last.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Tomorrow is never promised.

Robboe

I put powder into my shaker and use the taps at the gym to fill it with cold water.

Piece of piss.

Being held down by The Man

nikegurl

if i'm not running late (i frequently am) i'll blend the shake at home in the blender, pour it into plastic container and put it in my little cooler w/an ice pack. (i use cold water and ice cubes in the blender)

otherwise - i toss the powder in the container, add water from the fountain at the gym and drink it clumps and all.

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

Emma-Leigh

Yup - T'is what I do too and it gets the job done. it is simple and means I can start to drink with in a few minutes of stopping my workout.

As for milk post-workout: Well, it is all a matter of personal choice.

It doesn't interfere with whey absorption that greatly (meaning it does not slow down it's digestion and utilisation to any significant degree) and milk is highly insulinogenic (stimulates a high insulin release) and therefore helps in that regard too (that is, it will help blunt cortisol and help in energy uptake into muscles). It is also a good, natural source of proteins, carbs and electrolytes (as well as vitamins and mineral) and has a multitude of growth factors, immune-modulating factors and many other useful things in it - all good things which aid in recovery...

Anyway - Milk in general is a highly anabolic food sources (you think of what it is actually created for!!), so I say if you want it, have it post-workout...

LAM

how can you say that it is a mattter of personal choice when all of the ALL of the recent studies use whey and/or a BCAA combo only for post workout to maximize the anabolic window ? precision timing is what taking advantage of the anabolic window of oppurtunity is about.

there is not one study out there that shows caesin is superior for post workout to maximize anabolic activity and increase MPS...anybody who is serious about building LBM will use a whey protein fraction for post workout

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?

Purdue Power

She is just referring to the choice of milk or water in your whey protein shake. Not saying that whey or not whey is a matter of choice.

5'8 1/2, 225lbs

Your M1T Info Source

Dream as though you'll live forever,
Live each day like it's you last.
Love like you've never been hurt.
Tomorrow is never promised.

Mortality

i use tap water.

http://home.bigblue.net.au/ykwa876/ga54.jpg
"What the fuck are YOU looking at?!"

soxmuscle

I used to have a post workout shake that included milk but have since then changed, and to be honest, I don't see much of a difference besides the fact that I try and chug the whey so fast so I don't have to taste it.

Nonetheless, I will continue to do it the way I am doing it.

Emma-Leigh

Yup - thank you for clearing that up!

I feel whey is optimal in terms of your protein source PWO, but that using milk in your PWO shake is a personal choice!

My point was that milk has highly anabolic properties that some people like to utilise following a workout, especially when combined with the anabolic potential of a whey powder (which presents the body with those all important BCAAs).

Why??
Milk, especially in combination with the highly insulinogenic amino acids found in whey, will lead to a synergistic increase in insulin output. This is of great benifit to the post-workout goals of rapidly decreasing cortisol and rapidly replenishment of muscle glycogen stores. So, for example, if you were a person that used 'high GI foods for their insulin stimulation property' in the post-workout window, milk would provide a more nutritionally dense (and more anabolically advantagous) alternative to the 'dextrose/malto' thing.

Milk also has a huge capacity to stimulate growth factors - and this is to a much greater degree than whey alone. In fact, this is actually partially because of the casein in milk, which maintains the integrety of IGF-1 in milk, allowing it to make it to the blood un-denatured (allowing it to be absorbed in this state). Casein is also highly anti-catabolic (again, more so than whey), something also of benifit in the post-workout window!

Milk is also a natural 'electrolyte solution' (with protein and carbs as well... and fat droplets if you have whole milk - which I DO NOT suggest you have post-workout due to the fat content )... But these vitamins and minerals are excellent for post-workout recovery - adding once again to the overall benifit of milk post-workout.

Thus - whey + milk can actually work well together in the post-workout window to aid in recovery and to give an anabolic, anti-catabolic hit all at one!

I am not saying people have to use milk, I am just saying it is an option for the post-workout period and that it should not be dismissed so suddenly.

I certainly do not advocate milk alone!

But, if your workouts are intense then maybe consider whey + milk + oats + fruit as a great combination for your post-workout shake - it would give you the BCAAs and anabolic potential of the whey, the anabolic/anti-catabolic and insulinogenic potential of the milk, the nutrient dense carbohydrates of the oats and the blood glucose restoring, anti-oxidant potential, nutrient dense benifits of the fruit...

But (just to finish) in my opinion, any combination of any of the above foods (as long as whey was in the equation) is fine... Different people feel more comfortable with different foods post-workout and will also have different goals - so their choice on post-workout shake ingredients will be made with those things in mind.

BulkMeUp

Ditto!

BulkMeUp

Isnt it suggested to have a 'faster' carb post workout? Due to that suggestion i do dextrose instead of oats in my shake. Or is that only a matter of personal choice?

Robboe

Ahh...But what about the whole whey protein pre/during workout and casein post workout jive?

It's gonna depend on what you've eaten prior to the session and how long before the session too place too though.

Being held down by The Man

aztecwolf

i throw my whey with a scoop of gatorade into a sandwich plastic baggy, I take my bottle with me at the gym to drink water out of, then when the time comes i pour out the contents of the baggy into the bottle and consume

-Sack Up-

"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall

Emma-Leigh

Yes and no.

Yes, faster digesting carbohydrate sources are the best in terms of 'maximising rapid recovery' in the post-workout period. They not only help to increase insulin secretion (thus blunting cortisol release quickly) but also increase the speed at which glycogen is replenished (via increasing the immediate availability of glucose)... However, if you think about it - what else does dextrose offer you? Zip. It is nutritionally pointless. There are other sources of high GI carbs that can provide you with this function and a lot more - as I feel your post-workout recovery should encompass things such as restoring blood/whole body glucose levels, restoring electrolytes, decreasing the rate of oxidative damage (seen to be much heightened following strenuous exercise) stimulating anabolic/growth factors and decreasing catabolism...

Dex is not really good for doing any of those things.

For the insulin response - Well, you do not really need to do the 'high GI' thing. Insulin, although related somewhat to the GI of the food, is also released to other things. Both milk and whey stimulate an insulin response - a large insulin response. Infact, when used in combination it is actually a synergistic effect and you will increase insulin more so than the individual substances. You can get more than the required response from these things.

For the glucose availability thing - well, both milk and fruits will have natural dextrose/glucose in them (I believe skim milk has about 7g per cup, the average medium banana has about 6g glucose, a cup of blueberries has about 7g glucose and a cup of grapes has about 12g of glucose). These things are also much more nutritionally valuable - having vitamins, minerals, water etc etc and MANY other benefits that pure dextrose does not have.

Oats - well, yes, they don't have a lot of glucose but they are not as 'low GI' as many believe. This is only really some times of oats. Yes, both scotch oats and oatbran are low GI (less than 55) and THICK cut wholegrain rolled oats (esp those in Australia ) are lowish to intermediate (40 to 58) , however, most rolled oats (esp thinly rolled oats and those that have been de-hulled) are actually intermediate to high GI (ranging around the 65-75 and up to 80). You could even go for oat-flour porridge which has a GI of about 75! Sure, not as high GI as dextrose, but still in the range that they will provide energy to the body. So they are highish GI and do offer your body energy... but they also offer you the nutritional benefits of the oats.

If the GI of oats is not 'high enough' for your likings then why not look for something else NATURAL that is - eg:
Dates!: They have a GI of 104! They also have 20-35g of glucose per 100g (depends on the type)... But they also give you magnesium, potassium, vit B6 and lots of other nutritional benefits...
Potato: *shock*.. Yup.. Potato... often shunned for it's high GI why not USE this as an advantage? It is much more nutritious than dextrose as they also give you significant levels of magnesium, Vit B6, folate and potassium.
Millet: High GI (up around 80 and above) and a great source of your B vitamins and magnesium. They are also high in phosphorus, which, if you think about it is essential in things such as DNA formation, bone formation AND ATP formation!

??? Why not think outside the 'dextrose or nothing' square?

And a word on fruits.... Yes, most are lower in GI (even banana's are only intermediate GI) however, they offer vitamins, minerals, water, anti-oxidants and phytochemicals which are all amazingly useful in the post-workout time frame. They will help repair oxidative damage, restore minerals/electrolytes that have been lost during sweating and will also restore BLOOD/WHOLE BODY glucose which is essential in whole-body recovery and in preventing catabolism! Also, you do have higher-glucose options such as bananas, pineapples, grapes etc - these give you the benefit of the fruits and that glucose that you need...



Just some food for thought....

Du

Damn, where do you get all this from?


Wow.....

My IronMag Journal

BulkMeUp

Thanks for all the grreat info Emma.
I was doing the whey with apple juice, it was tasty, but i was advised against too much fructose (i used about 300-400ml juice) post wo and hence switched to dex and water. Am not sure if i could eat a banana (or any whole food) immediately after a wo. Besides i have a solid [carb(potato)+pro(tuna)+veggies+a fruit] meal about an hour after. I guess i shall try and either grind some oats or use oat flour in the shake instead of dex. It is only that i already consume 2 cups oats/day and will have to stuff my face with more.

I love fruits. Dates, grapes..yum.. i guess i should incorporate more with the solid meal post wo on my next bulk when i recalc my diet.