Thread: On off days

Your off days should contain carbs to replenish your broken down muscle tissue!!

After training your body desperately needs carbs and protein for repair.

depends on what your goals are. but don't expect to grow much with no carbs on recovery days...

ive been growing alot of muscle in chest region and every saturday and stunday i have no carbs but no cardio..just lots of protein and fat..which leads me to my next quesiton..jack daniels , scotch, and other drink contain lots of carbs right? i have a few drinks of this every saturday night...is that a bad thing?

Originally Posted by joey2005

ive been growing alot of muscle in chest region and every saturday and stunday i have no carbs but no cardio..just lots of protein and fat..which leads me to my next quesiton..jack daniels , scotch, and other drink contain lots of carbs right? i have a few drinks of this every saturday night...is that a bad thing?

Alcohol is going to hinder your gains, period. Either deal with the consequences or don't drink; it's a simple as that.

However, I would definitely be eating plenty of carbs every day if gaining mass is your goal.

well my goal is to lose fat

Yes any alcoholic drink contains carbs however that is not the real problem with consuming alcohol is that alchoal is a poision itself and that is obviously far worse than any carb not that carbs are bad even if you are trying to lose fat.
The theroy behind cutting carbs to lose fat is a debated one however the truth behind it is. Carbs are basically suger in the form of Glucose this is also the bodys main fuel source and helps carry nutrients and water round your system. If you cut carbs out completly (even if it is just your day off and your on a cut) this will cuase you to lose a lot of water weight as theres no glucose to carry this vital nutrient round your body causing you to be more catabollic and dehydrated. Also when you cut carbs out of your diet your muscles will litarally be getting used as fuel when you cut your bodys main fuel source out your system struggles to find another fuel source it will turn on your Amino Acid storage (ie muscles) Your energy levels will also drop along with your bodys abillity to function correctly and your energy levels in the gym as Amino Acids are not as efficent at providing energy as Glucose.
If you are thinking "no it will not,my body will choose to use fat as the main fuel source in the absence of carbs". This is actually a myth as muscles are only a short term energy supply your body does not know when its going to get decent fuel again and after all mucles take up a lot of energy just to maintain and are a lot easier to convert into fuel.Fat however represents long term survival and your body will only use this as its main fuel source when glucose is absencent when its eaten up your Amino Acid pool.

Originally Posted by joey2005

well my goal is to lose fat

To cause fat loss, you need to be consuming less calories than you use, period. To optimize fat loss, you need to have periods of depletion, so no, you do not want to be eating carbs (especially "lots" of them) on your off days. To the extent you can muster some cardio, keep it brief.

I respectfully disagree,as his body has not recovered from the previous days training,therefore carbs are essential as is protein.

I`m all for cycling carbs for fat loss,but I don`t agree with no carbs unless you have reached a fat burning plateau,and then only for a max of 3 days,and only for a pre-contest bodybuilder.

It would be wiser in my opinion,to schedule higher carb days on off days.

Just my opininion,as are all of the above statements everyone elses opinions.

In any event,yes,a calorie deficit must be created but the absence of carbs to aid in recovery is not the best scenario.

this is my scheduel as far as carbs go

Monday(legs)- Low Carb day
Tuesday(shoulders/triceps-high carb day
Wednsday(off)-no carb day *30 minutes HIIT cardio*
Thurday(back)-Low carb day
Friday(chest/biceps)-High carb day
Saturday(off)-No carbs *30 minutes of HIIT cardio*
Sunday(off) Low carb day---Absolutely no Exercise

I would advice 3 low carb days in a row ,followed by two higher days.

Example:
150
100
50
125
200
Repeat,regardless of heavy,light,or rest days.

Originally Posted by tjwes

I respectfully disagree,as his body has not recovered from the previous days training,therefore carbs are essential as is protein.

I`m all for cycling carbs for fat loss,but I don`t agree with no carbs unless you have reached a fat burning plateau,and then only for a max of 3 days,and only for a pre-contest bodybuilder.

It would be wiser in my opinion,to schedule higher carb days on off days.

Just my opininion,as are all of the above statements everyone elses opinions.

In any event,yes,a calorie deficit must be created but the absence of carbs to aid in recovery is not the best scenario.

Unfortunately, it is not only about "opinion." There is quite a bit of physiological justification for fat loss.

So, that said care to explain some of your statements. Most notably, I'd love to hear the reasoning behing the following:

Originally Posted by tjwes

I respectfully disagree,as his body has not recovered from the previous days training,therefore carbs are essential as is protein.

I'd like to hear your definition of recovered. Once that is explained, I'd enjoy hearing why carbs are necessary for "recovery."

In fact, they are not "necessary" for muscular recovery from breakdown of resistance training. They are "useful" for replenishing glycogen stores, which *may* become depleted from training. Consuming carbs on the day of and after you will accomplish this. Perhaps not ideally, but as originally stated, the goal here is not muscle growth, but rather fat loss.

Originally Posted by tjwes

I`m all for cycling carbs for fat loss,but I don`t agree with no carbs unless you have reached a fat burning plateau,and then only for a max of 3 days,and only for a pre-contest bodybuilder.

Are you aware of all the internal inconsistencies of this statement?

Originally Posted by tjwes

It would be wiser in my opinion,to schedule higher carb days on off days.

From a basic physiological standpoint, this is retarded. Excercise, and resistance training in particular, is perhaps the single greatest nutrient partitioner know to man. To intentionally consume carbs (and most of your calories) away from times of exercise, is, well, not very wise.

well ive been gaining muscle and losing fat...from appearance..and Im following a carb cycle ..the one i stated above...I dont think its logical to go higher on carbs on off days

Twin Peaks,I think retarded was a bit harsh, but if YOU say so I guess it`s gospel!!

Carbs don`t necessarily make you fat but carbs in excess can.

The day after training ,you`re tissues are in a total state of disrepair that`s why I think protein and carbs are needed to aid in replenishment and repair.

To think otherwise is wrong!!


You will not add fat as long as you are not taking in excessive amounts.

Do you have proof that I am wrong,if so I`d like to see it.

A carb is just a carb it`s not going to make you fat unless you are ingesting more than your body can properly utilize for repair/replenishment.

Tim, you didn't respond to a single question I posed.

I have to agree with TPizzle on this dizzle.

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Tim, you didn't respond to a single question I posed.

Peaks,and I`m not going to either!!

I simply offered advice to the person asking for suggestions,and not to debate this issue with you yet again.

It`s clear that we disagree, and have done so before, but the dogma of your "theories" get`s a bit tiring.

There is more than one way to lose fat you know,and I use my way and you use yours.

An open mind is a terrible thing to lose dude.

I will say this about my recommendations,I myself, and many people that I have trained,both for fat loss, and for contest prep,have done quite well following the carb cycling plan I have outlined.

It is setup differently than yours, but that doesn`t mean that it doesn`t produce results.

I`ve been training for decades, and only post what I know from my own personal experience,I never parrot info from others, unless I have tried it myself, and find it effective.

I typically get down to 4-5 % bodyfat following my plan, so I see no reason to stop now.

I`ll post pics in 2005 of my condition.

Not to boast,but I must be doing something right as I have won 46 trophies in the NPC.
I do not sayt this to brag, because it`s no big deal,but I am adding in to show that I am credible as is my advice.

They don`t give trophies to fat men in bodybuilding contests...........usually anyway.

My question to Dale Mabry is have you ever tried to carb cycle for an extended period in order to lose bodyfat?

If so great,if not ,how can you possivbly agree with TP?

I`m outa` this thread ,good luck Joey!

Wow.

Yes I have and I still agree with TP.

Originally Posted by tjwes

I respectfully disagree,as his body has not recovered from the previous days training,therefore carbs are essential as is protein.

Tim, just so you know, we're not all ganging up on you here. But i am curious why you look upon recovery as being a one-day thing after the previous day's training.

Do you not view recovery as a continuous strategy of the body over several days?

Oh, I was not ganging up on him either, I just follow the same school of thought as TP in this area. Either one could be right, but my cards fall in line with TP. Both can work, I am of the school of thought that total cals is far more important than anything else.

Also, I read somewhere that optimally, GLycogen is replenished at a rate of 5% per hour. Assuming you do not completely deplete glycogen it shouldn't take more than like 16 hours to replenish. I also feel that if you are eating carbs right up to the time of your workout glycogen use is less since you will have some glucose already present in the bloodstream.

Chicken Daddy,Of course I realize that recuperation will take more than just one day,but I still stand by my post that carbs should not be at zero,especially at this time where I think they should definately be included.

Just my opinion,and I base it on personal experience.

Why would a person exclude a macro that will help him to recover optimally?

I do think however, that carbs should never be mega-high during a fat loss diet, but should always be included in some amount, in most cases, most of the time.

I also wanted to make it clear that I wasn`t trying to be rude to Twin Peaks,as I know he is well respected here,and I too respect him,but we have had this debate before and it solved nothing,except to show that we have different opinions.

I`m not saying that with zero carbs you won`t lose fat, but I am saying I do not think it`s usually necessary, and there is also the possibility of losing hard-earned muscle,consistant eating, while carb cycling over time, is far more important in my opinion.

You have to be dedicated in your eating habits,and this will make a world of difference,as most people aren`t!

Thanks for the input also Dale,I just asked about your experience or lack thereof, because I post on several forums, and a lot of people jump on the bandwagon without even having tried the methods in question.

Not so in your case................thanks!


I could post my article on carb cycling, but I have done so in the past, and ended up in a pissing match, which just confused the origanal poster more than he was already!!

Anyway thanks for the input, and I`ll just leave it as a "to each his own" type of thing.

My oribginal intention was just to offer Joey a suggestion that I think would help him.

Peace!

Originally Posted by tjwes

but we have had this debate before and it solved nothing,except to show that we have different opinions.

No, we haven't. Tim, you need to better focus on the discussion at hand.

We have discussed different methods of carb cycling. That was a purely dietary/nutritional discussion on how to optimize fat loss. An issue that we disagreed about.

That is not the issue here.

The issue here is about, among other things, nutrient timing. More precisely, it is about the importance of timing carbs, and calories, in relation to your workout.

You made several statements (or "opinions"), not the least of which was your contention that if you lift weights on Day 1, you are better off eating no carbs on day one and lots of carbs on day two then the reverse.

Well, that is patently untrue, and not subject to "opinion."

There are other mistatements you have made above, Tim, such as why "carbs are necessary for recovery"; but you have chosen not to even attempt to explain why. On the other hand, both Dale and myself have explain (a part of) their roll in recovery and why timing them on the day of training, is superior.

Rather than address any of these points, you have engaged in pure puffery. Implying that somehow your "credentials" make your "opinion" fact, without ever explaining why you believe what you do. Or how, physiologically, it is important to eat in the manner you suggest. Instead you dredge up some old conversion about a largely unrelated topic (which, by the way, I did not even recall was with you until you brought it up) in order to "explain" why you won't pony up with at least some logical backing for your recommendations.

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Rather than address any of these points, you have engaged in pure puffery.

How do you know he is smoking the ganj?

Originally Posted by tjwes

I wasn`t trying to be rude to Twin Peaks,as I know he is well respected here

since when?