Thread: What is the downfall of no carbs in Post workout meal

You dont supply the muscles with nutriants to grow....its like whats the downfall of not watering your plants after several days of intense heat and lack of water?

When you are working out, you are burning up your muscles glycogen stores, the form of carbohydrates that you muscles store for energy, VOLUME, and RECOVERY. When you are done working out, your muscles are thirsty and depleted of their glycogen stores, so any simple carbs that you intake are rapidly absorbed by the muscles, thus having no impact on blood sugar levels because they don't stick around in the bloodstream. If you don't take in any carbs, you will not have much muscle recovery and your muscles will look flat due to low glycogen stores. SUMMARY- You have to take in simple carbs in you post workout shake/meal.

Originally Posted by joey2005

??? Always wondered.

i don't really get this?

if your asking what I think you are.. which is: why do I need to eat carbs after a workout? then you should really find where your common sense has ran off to

you workout, you burn energy, you replace burned energy by eating carbs so you can grow

no carbs = no growth

simple stuff man

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

When you are working out, you are burning up your muscles glycogen stores, the form of carbohydrates that you muscles store for energy, VOLUME, and RECOVERY. When you are done working out, your muscles are thirsty and depleted of their glycogen stores, so any simple carbs that you intake are rapidly absorbed by the muscles, thus having no impact on blood sugar levels because they don't stick around in the bloodstream. If you don't take in any carbs, you will not have much muscle recovery and your muscles will look flat due to low glycogen stores. SUMMARY- You have to take in simple carbs in you post workout shake/meal.

simple and logical. Thanks
some people like me who have been working out (not really body building) are still learning about nutrition and posts like these are very helpful

some people do protein/fat post workout. The main thing is just never have the whey alone. It is absorb to quickly and you can loose 30% of to to gluconeogenesis.

Originally Posted by P-funk

some people do protein/fat post workout. The main thing is just never have the whey alone. It is absorb to quickly and you can loose 30% of to to gluconeogenesis.

how about whey in water and 3 or 4 fish oil caps. And maybe a small piece of fruit or oats?

High amounts of fat post workout will slow the digestion of your whey, amounting in a slower absorption of the protein into your muscles. You need to get it in there as quick as possible. It is ok to mix your whey with water if you are trying to avoid lactose, but you need to eat more than a small piece of fruit. You need to get at least 75g of simple carbs in you post workout shake if you had a decent workout. I try to get around 100g in mine with a banana, milk, and honey.

I've stopped using most carbs post workout, and I'm still gaining. I usually only use whey protein with low fat milk, or I have a small real meal.

Per Larrian Gillespie MD, author of The Gladiator Diet...

From: ab_lowcarb Aug-21 7:39 pm
To: Minotaur (MINOTAUR101) (9 of 25)

208.9 in reply to 208.8

You're misunderstanding about the "insulin spike"....when insulin rises, it pushes sugars into the muscle....so after a workout, the muscles are depleted and you may need to increase gluconeogenesis in the first hour...I did this with Michael Flatley and his performing..and trust me...it's a different mechanism for a completely different purpose...endurance NOT muscle building. So...this is only the technique for a runner/dancer who does short sprints and exhausts the glucose in the muscle and needs to reperform right away.....otherwise, for everyone else, you DO NOT want an insulin spike....as it doesnt spike ...it hangs in there, causing insulin resistance.
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From: Minotaur (MINOTAUR101) Aug-22 4:48 pm
To: ab_lowcarb (10 of 25)

208.10 in reply to 208.9

Thanks. So another gym myth bites the dust! Then I'm glad I stopped using simple carbs post workout.

If I had a quarter (adjusting for inflation) for every person who ever said you need simple carbs post workout for that insulin spike to push protein into the muscle cells, I could hire my own team of nutritionists and trainers.

Btw, I've watched Michael Flately... there are no words to describe! In the early days of his performing, he'd go through a pair of boots every night (the heels and soles shot to crap). Then someone came up with a heel and sole that could stand the pounding and intensity of his dancing.



The weights won't lift themselves.

No one ever drowned in sweat.


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From: Goal199lbs Aug-22 5:32 pm
To: ab_lowcarb (11 of 25)

208.11 in reply to 208.9

So if the spike increases sugar into the muscle cells wouldn't protein also be pushed into the cell and promote protein synthisis? I hear so much about the "60 minute window" after a workout where your muscles are soaking up everything they can. To take full advantage of this an insulin spike is needed. Just trying to get the facts straight.




Bill

Started:
256/219/199
64.9% of goal

BF% 33.2% start
BF% 19% 8/20/04



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From: ab_lowcarb Aug-23 9:15 pm
To: Goal199lbs (12 of 25)

208.12 in reply to 208.11

You dont need an insulin spike to do that post workout....the energy gradient is such that carbs/protein are all in a positive flow IF you have enough complex carbs/protein in your metabolism..which is why for his performing I did a specific hydration schedule along with food plans before the performing and geared throughout the duration of the show and then right afterwards...

re his shoes....so true....I wrote a feature article on him which you can find on the web.....it's very revealing abou him and was responsible for the press turnaround before LOTD premiered....he says it's his favorite article. It was sent to EVERY important person before publication...made me feel good as a writer about that one!

Visit my Websites:
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The Goddess Diet
The Hormone Diva
Special Reports. . .

Thyroid Report | Soy Report
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Originally Posted by Purdue Power

You need to get at least 75g of simple carbs in you post workout shake if you had a decent workout. I try to get around 100g in mine with a banana, milk, and honey.

A:Whether the workout was decent or not you still did the same thing...breaking down of muscle...so regardless you still need post workout nutrition.

B:The amounts dont vary on how "good" your workout was but rather you weight, BF%, goals, and intensity of the workout.

C:Your post workout shake may work for you but for someone like me in my situation that would have the opposite affect....that is almost my daily intake of carbs not to mention the loads of sugar in the shake. I do not benefit from milk, honey, or bannanas...so please refrain from stating things such as you did b/c everyone is different and they need to contour a diet to their likings and needs.

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

C:Your post workout shake may work for you but for someone like me in my situation that would have the opposite affect....that is almost my daily intake of carbs not to mention the loads of sugar in the shake.

What he said.

With so much conflicting theoretical advice... listen to your body. I take in protein, simple carbs and even a small amount of fat. All text book info aside, after working out my body screams to be replenished with food.

good stuff, I will just have to tailor my PWO shake to fit my goals as I go along.

I usually have a zero carb whey based shake, piece of fruit and PB. I work out in the AM so I take this in around 8am. Not only are the carbs important to refuel but it's also my second meal of the day.

Originally Posted by P-funk

some people do protein/fat post workout.

Isnt it recommended no fats pwo?

i dont have fats post but it seems to work for lis

Minotaur, given this:

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I've stopped using most carbs post workout, and I'm still gaining. I usually only use whey protein with low fat milk, or I have a small real meal.

and this:

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Thanks. So another gym myth bites the dust! Then I'm glad I stopped using simple carbs post workout.

Does it mean you are not using carbs? or only a small amount if complex carbs pwo?

Originally Posted by shutupntra1n

I usually have a zero carb whey based shake, piece of fruit and PB. I work out in the AM so I take this in around 8am. Not only are the carbs important to refuel but it's also my second meal of the day.

I work out in the morning also, I don't find many people who also do this. Except my workout time is about 6:15am The PWO shake for me is also my second meal of the day. Good to know

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

High amounts of fat post workout will slow the digestion of your whey, amounting in a slower absorption of the protein into your muscles. You need to get it in there as quick as possible. It is ok to mix your whey with water if you are trying to avoid lactose, but you need to eat more than a small piece of fruit. You need to get at least 75g of simple carbs in you post workout shake if you had a decent workout. I try to get around 100g in mine with a banana, milk, and honey.

I totally agree with this!

My current PWO shake is 50g whey isolate, 40g dextrose, 40g maltodextrin and ripe bannana, gives me around..

50g protein, 100g (fast and medium digesting) simple carbs and zero fats

i'm thinking about adding honey to this too, and eventually i will up the dextrose (however my shaker is pretty crammed already)

basically PP is correct, you need to replenish muscle glycogen straight after a workout (whether its weights, HIIT or playing sports), you obviously want high protein (for muscle growth and repair) and high simple carbs (to shuttle these nutrients into your system fast), you want to avoid fats as fats slow digestion

that is the insulin spike method of PWO nutrition, i gotta say for me that makes sense, why consume slow digesting nutrients? this is the one time of day when they are not beneficial at all to your system so adding fats and slow digesting carbs post workout? - that really dosen't make sense to me

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Minotaur, given this:

and this:

Does it mean you are not using carbs? or only a small amount if complex carbs pwo?

Only a small amount of complex (actually low glycemic) carbs pwo. I am trying to drop fat, and I may be insulin resistant and gluten intolerant (yeah, I got issues ). So I have to monitor my carbs.

For what its worth.

Barry Sears, Phd, wrote the Zone Diet.
He said that if your carbs were too high after your workout, the insulin
spike would snuff out any Growth Hormone that you had coursing thru
our veins. His defintion of too high was back to his 40:30:30 ratio or
somthing close to it.

Need to factor in high glycemic carbs versus low glycemic too.
Presumably low would not cause the same spike and you could have
more of them.

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Isnt it recommended no fats pwo?

depends on your goals, metabolic type, etc.....

Towards the end of my diet I always switch to protein/fat post workout. The whole idea being to just keep blood sugar levels stable and to spare the whey protein with something (in this case fat). I had a lengthy post here on how it is not NECCESSARY to spike insulin levels post workout. Jodi has made several posts on it. I no longer spike my insulin levels post workout. I used to do it all the time. I didn't really benefit form it at all and saw no difference. I'd rather keep my levels stable. I go with whey and oats and then like I said, the last few weeks of a diet (maybe 3 or so) I switch to whey and flax.

Originally Posted by P-funk

depends on your goals, metabolic type, etc.....

Toward the end of my diet I always switch to protein/fat post workout. The whole idea being to just keep blood sugar levels stable and to spare the whey protein with something (in this case fat). I had a lengthy post here on how it is not NECCESSARY to spike insulin levels post workout. Jodi has made several posts on it. I no longer spike my insulin levels post workout. I used to do it all the time. I didn't really benefit form it at all and saw no difference. I'd rather keep my levels stable. I go with whey and oats and then like I said, the last few weeks of a diet (maybe 3 or so) I switch to whey and flax.

Yep. i remember reading that thread. Though i admit, i dont remember it in detail. It did contain a lot of info.
I too am considerting not doing the spike on my next bulk. Just whey and oats. (ratio 1:2 = 1scoop whey + 2 scoops ground oats)
Do you consider those cals as part of your daily cals or leave them out?
Also what is the purpose of fats +whey pwo. Isn't the purpose of the pwo shake to replenish glycogen stores efficiently? and fats are said to slow down the digestion process hence delaying glycogen replenishment.

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Yep. i remember reading that thread. Though i admit, i dont remember it in detail. It did contain a lot of info.
I too am considerting not doing the spike on my next bulk. Just whey and oats. (ratio 1:2 = 1scoop whey + 2 scoops ground oats)
Do you consider those cals as part of your daily cals or leave them out?
Also what is the purpose of fats +whey pwo. Isn't the purpose of the pwo shake to replenish glycogen stores efficiently? and fats are said to slow down the digestion process hence delaying glycogen replenishment.

Ofcourse I count those calories in my daily totals.

Yes, fats slow down digestion. The idea is just another way to spare the protein and keep blood sugar levels stable. Also, at times I think that the bigger picture is more important....ie, total caloric/macronutrient intake at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by P-funk

Ofcourse I count those calories in my daily totals.

Thanks P-funk. On off days, do you intake more cals since you are not doing the pwo shake. or do you simply look at a sorta weekly average?