J.K.

Hey Gang,

Currently I get up in the morning - have a two scoop Protien Shake plus some coffee and then hit the gym. (Lifting - 1 hour and 15 minutes) On occasion after the lifting I also do some cardio. (15-30 Minutes)

My question is, "Would it be better to have my post-workout shake right before or after the cardio?"

Also, here is what I'm drinking.. Objective is fat-loss at this point.

Thanks.

"Just multiply it by zero." ~ Some unknown Buddha.

SpinQueen

That's an excellent question. I would love to know the same thing. On many occasions, I'll lift for an hour, and then immediately do cardio following. Sometiems I do 45 minutes on the elliptical, or I may have to teahc an aerobics class, which lasts an hour. Post workout shake before or after cardio is what I'd like to know.

G-man

After working out, your muscle are in a state of what I think is called hyperabsorbtion.
This state usually last about a half hour. This is why you usually want to consume your PWS as soon as possible after you work out. This will help maximize muscle gain. If you are doing your cardio for weight loss then I would do it first thing before you work out or eat anything. If you are just cooling down afer the work out then do just 15 min cardio then PWS should be fine.

DeadBolt

Id say stick to taking in the carbs after the cardio. Your glycogin(sp?) storage will be its lowest after training so that is the ideal time for cardio. What form of cardio are you doing...high intensity or low intensity?

If you are performing low intensity add some fats to your pre workout shake to saturate the muscles and give them plenty of fuel for your workout. If your workouts are kept to an hour or less carbs will not affect you pre workout. If you are performing high intensity cardio you may want to throw some pre w/o carbs in there to preserve some LBM followed by a post w/o shake of carbs and whey after the cardio.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

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Tha Don

weights --> cardio --> post workout shake

there is no point in drinking your shake inbetween your weights and cardio, if you do that it is not even a post workout shake but more of a mid-workout shake... which i'm not familiar with? but the drop in heart-rate and intensity of throwing a 20 min break in your workout for a drink won't be good for fat loss

also your body is gonna have to put work into absorbing and digesting the shake, when all of the water and blood in your body should be in your muscles where needed (or something like that!)

plus there is no way you'll be able to drink a PWO shake then right after go an do cardio, it takes me a good 30 mins for me to drink my PWO shake so i don't get bloated walking up the stairs to my uni apartment, if i had to down it in the middle of a workout i would no doubt!

peace

DeadBolt

Good god 30mins?!? LOL....My shake and oats are down in no time...minutes after it is ready. It takes me more time for my oats to cool down then it does for me to eat them and down my shake.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

J.K.

Wow - Thanks!!!! - I've been looking for an answer to this for months...


I'm doing interval training. (stairmaster or eliptical) It seems then I should do this..
One more follow-up though.

Any specific kind of carbs? Oatmeal for both? Malto or Dextrose for one? etc?-

"Just multiply it by zero." ~ Some unknown Buddha.

G-man

My PWS is also downed immediatly after I work out. I also agree with young d about not drinking in between workout and cardio, thats why I reccommended cardio 1st.

DeadBolt

How long have you been training? I have tried the insuline spike post w/o and liked the way I felt but didn't like the way it made me look. I felt I looked soft. It may not have been the post w/o spike but in my mind it was set at that lol. I will try it after myc ompetition again to see how it works out.

I would suggest just for now b/c weight loss is your goal to do oats or whole grains like beans/brown rice. Some people can stomach those in the morning(me) and some can't. Do whole grains/complex carbs both pre and post w/o and you should be fine.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

G-man

J.K, is there any way you could split up your workout routine at different times of day.
I ask this because if your goal is to lose fat , you probably want to do do more cardio at this point, and doing it 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach will maximize your fat loss. Therefore your pre workout meal would work against that goal. Then do your weight training in the evening.

DeadBolt

Not true...the reason you do cardio first thing in the am (empty stomach has no proof to be shown affective) is b/c the glycogins are at the all time low from the entire nights sleep. This same affect is achieved through strength training...at the end of a workout session your body's glycogins are depleted so this would be the ideal time to do cardio...which is the same as in the morning.

For those who cannot seperate their training and cardio post w/o is fine for cardio. IMHO it is equal to do it at either time.....diet is more of a factor in weight loss then cardio.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

G-man

Deadbolt, Im not arguing with you, but if he can split his routine then it can only help him. If he cant then I would still suggest cardio 1st. And its glycogen

DeadBolt

Yea my spelling is horrible....lol I always forget which way its spelled.

I wasn't arguing with you....I just wanted to clear that up b/c alot of people have some false ideas stuck in their head.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

J.K.

Hey Gang... - Again, thanks a million.. Man, I'm glad I joined this forum.

For six months... I've got a before-after photo up if you'd like to check.. Somewhere between the ages of 35 and 40 I kinda let myself go to pot. lol However, prior to age 36 I'd always been in what I'd call pretty good shape. I'm currently 41.

As per the split routine, thanks too G-Man. I'd like to be able to do that, and in fact, I've even thought about it. What's kept me from moving to that though is just what I guess I'd call the 'enjoyablity factor.'

As I have my workouts set up now, they're usually the high-point of my day. I'm having a blast going to the gym. Somehow however, - mentally - if I turn em' into two-a-days, to me, instead of looking like something fun it starts to look like 'work.'

And I'm a slacker..

"Just multiply it by zero." ~ Some unknown Buddha.

G-man

Typically you do cardio to cut fat/lose weight and weigh lifting for adding muscle/weight. The best conditions for fat loss are usually the worst for muscle gain. That is why you see people cycling, bulking cycle for muscle gain and cutting cycle for fat loss. Its hard to do both at the same time. I would suggest that if you are going to only do 1-a day workouts, you do cardio on "off days" and limit your cardio on "on days" to no more than 20 min (that is if you are doing cardio after your work out). As for your PWS I still feel that the 30 min rule would apply. Now for your cardio sessions, 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach. Like Deadbolt said your glycogen stores are depleted 1st thing in the morning, and your cortisol levels are high (this is an optimal environment for fat loss, but poor for muscle gain), therefore your body will be looking for an alternate source of energy/fuel, stored fat.

J.K.

Ahhh.. Now that makes even more sense.

I think without me even mentioning it you picked up why I asked this. On those days where I was doing 1 hour 15 minutes on the iron and 30 minutes on the stairmaster I was freaking out over the possibility of muscle loss.

I don't know why I'd not thought of doing it instead as you've suggested - but that's what I'm going to do. I think I may also switch to 4 days heavy lifting too rather than 5 (which has also been suggested to me) and try adding in 2 "off days" of cardio only..

Again, thanks guys.. This has been a lot of help..

"Just multiply it by zero." ~ Some unknown Buddha.

G-man

Thats what wer'e here for

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One more thing I can add your fat loss doesn't have to be off the hook running your ass into the ground. your body will ditch the weight at 60% of your max hr and this only about 107-120 bpm's at 41 yrs young. Another thing no one has mentioned is well not just bad but shity news after you pass the age of about 30 ish you loose the abillity to create more muscle mass so you have what you have and fight to maintain it. So get a personal trainner and if you start to top out litteraly just accept it and focus on lossing the dead weight. I am not being sinacle just realistic cuz you mentioned the Fun factor in your work out. Some of us like it hard and horrible and others like it fun and beating your head into a brickwall is no fun at all

DeadBolt

Can't produce muscle after 30??? Bull...your test levels lower and it is more difficult but you can still grow. I'm not arguing here but hey c'mon you can still grow at that age...theres guys in my gym who from the age of 30-40 have grown and changed dramaticly and they are natural. Id agree it becomes more difficult and nutrition starts to play an even bigger role but I don't think compelete muscle groth is brought to a hault.

"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson

´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

G-man

Wow Slider, where did you hear this from? Im over 38 and have been putting on muscle mass, in fact easier than when I was in my teens & twenties. Wherever or whomever you got this misinformation from, I would seriously suggest you disregard for future advice.

LAM

according to what medical data ?

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

CowPimp

It wouldn't hurt to have something between the weights and cardio, then again after the entire workout has been completed.

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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It is in all my new text books I am not saying you cannot make your current mucle fibers thicker to make you stronger. your body just won't promote the formation of more fiber. I haven't done the research on this cuz I don' tfollow comps but my exercise physiology teacher says that is why most power lifters top out around 35-40 ish. if yo are simply maintaining for appeal as in body building then you can maintain all your want. but you can't physicaly promote the growth of new muscular fiber. So it becomes what you have built over the years and what you physicaly have now.

G-man

Well if thats true then Ill just buy some at this place!!
http://www.cambrex.com/catnav.oid.486