Thread: Post Work-Out Shake...Too Late?

What are you trying to achieve Cut/Bulk?

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Question: I work out quite late in the evening and finish around 8:30/9:00PM. I’m currently bulking and need to build more lean muscle mass. Is it ok to have a protein shake in which the suggested serving has 85gm of carb and 35 gram of protein that late? I go to bed around 11:30PM.

Could I take ½ a serving of that and a ½ a serving of carb-free protein shake?

I would go with that shake and see what kind of results you get. what kind of meal are you going to have before you go to bed ?

...I’m currently bulking...

Like LAM said, drink your shake and see what happens. Now, when you move into your "cutting" phase things will probably radically change.

Well I'd eat something like egg whites and veggies...really light since I would've had a shake with a lot of carb and I'm going to bed soon after that meal...

Of course when I'm cutting, I wouldn't have something with that much carb that late at night.

make sure to get some healthy fats in with your protein in that last meal

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Question: I work out quite late in the evening and finish around 8:30/9:00PM. I’m currently bulking and need to build more lean muscle mass. Is it ok to have a protein shake in which the suggested serving has 85gm of carb and 35 gram of protein that late? I go to bed around 11:30PM.

Could I take ½ a serving of that and a ½ a serving of carb-free protein shake?

85g of carbs per serve!! Is that a pre-made weight gainer type powder? If so I would consider not using it and using a good quality whey powder and adding your own quality carbohydrates.

Also, how much mass are you hoping to add? What is the rest of your diet like? At 120 pounds you might find that 89g of carbs in one sitting is a little much, even if it is post-workout.... Although if you are not having carbs in your following solid meal then this might be fine...

Finally, as LAM said, you might want to add some fats to your last meal (seeing that it is pre-bed).

Originally Posted by LAM

make sure to get some healthy fats in with your protein in that last meal

Question for ya, I been told to not have fats with my post-workout meals because it will interfere with the absorbtion of protein... does this have any merit?

Originally Posted by BritChick

Question for ya, I been told to not have fats with my post-workout meals because it will interfere with the absorbtion of protein... does this have any merit?

fats slow gastric emptying but do not actually effect the absorption of most proteins. post workout you only want proteins and carbs...

Originally Posted by LAM

fats slow gastric emptying but do not actually effect the absorption of most proteins. post workout you only want proteins and carbs...

Thanks LAM.

Eat your standard post workout meal, and then 30-45 minutes before bed you should eat another meal containing some EFAs and protein. I'm a huge fan of cottage cheese and peanut butter. I'm going to eat some in a few minutes.

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

85g of carbs per serve!! Is that a pre-made weight gainer type powder? If so I would consider not using it and using a good quality whey powder and adding your own quality carbohydrates.

Also, how much mass are you hoping to add? What is the rest of your diet like? At 120 pounds you might find that 89g of carbs in one sitting is a little much, even if it is post-workout.... Although if you are not having carbs in your following solid meal then this might be fine...

Finally, as LAM said, you might want to add some fats to your last meal (seeing that it is pre-bed).

Yeah, I'm not going to use this protein shake, I found out it has creatine in it and it is a weight gainer. A trainer at the gym suggested that I keep taking my low carb protein and also have some gatorade to get dextrose into my system. Does that sound ok?

With regards to EFAs before bed, how much should I have?

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Yeah, I'm not going to use this protein shake, I found out it has creatine in it and it is a weight gainer.

I thought it sounded like one of those... Arggg... Evil things!!

A trainer at the gym suggested that I keep taking my low carb protein and also have some gatorade to get dextrose into my system. Does that sound ok?

If you go for the insulin spike route then this is fine. Personally, I always prefere real food (offers you more in terms of nutrients and does not spike your insulin as much), but it is a matter of personal preference.

You could always combine gatorade with real food (eg: A banana, some skim milk or fat-free yoghurt and some thinly rolled oats).... That way you get a good mix of higher GI instant carbs with the nutritionally dense real food options.

With regards to EFAs before bed, how much should I have?

Well, this depends to some degree on your overall daily intake... A fat intake anywhere between 3g (eg: if you took 3 fish oil capsules) up to 15g (eg: from an oz of walnuts) would probably be fine.

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Well, this depends to some degree on your overall daily intake... A fat intake anywhere between 3g (eg: if you took 3 fish oil capsules) up to 15g (eg: from an oz of walnuts) would probably be fine.

Maybe the question I should ask then, is how much EFAs should I be intaking in a day. Do I include this fat intake in the % of fat I should be getting out of my daily calories. For example, if I'm supposed to have 20% of my calories from fat, do my EFAs count toward this 20%?

I've been intaking around 32-35 grams of fat from EFAs. How should this be spread out over the course of a day? I've been taking 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 pre-workout. Didn't realized I should have some before bed.

Well, this depends to some degree on your overall daily intake... A fat intake anywhere between 3g (eg: if you took 3 fish oil capsules) up to 15g (eg: from an oz of walnuts) would probably be fine.

One more question: Can you provide me with sources of EFAs?

I currently take udo's oil, and I eat almonds. If I use oil to cook with, I use coconut oil. Is natural PB a source of EFA?

CP -- If EFA's have any effect in the digestion of protein as LAM has stated, do you recommend I continue eating EFA's with my cottage cheese and milk before bed?

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

CP -- If EFA's have any effect in the digestion of protein as LAM has stated, do you recommend I continue eating EFA's with my cottage cheese and milk before bed?

EFA's (well, all fats really) simply slow the digestion of your protein (they delay the rate at which food leaves your stomach) - so the protein will still be absorbed, just at a slower rate.

Adding fats to your pre-bed meal is therefore a good thing. It will slow the digestion even further, resulting in a slow release of the protein from your stomach during the evening. It will also provide your body with a 'fuel' to use during the evening (as apposed to relying on your bodies internal fat and glycogen stores) - which is beneficial if you are trying to grow and maintain lean muscle.

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

One more question: Can you provide me with sources of EFAs?

I currently take udo's oil, and I eat almonds. If I use oil to cook with, I use coconut oil. Is natural PB a source of EFA?

There are only 2 'real' EFA's (essential fatty acids) - these are the ones that your body can not make. They are Linoleic Acid (which is an omega-6 fatty acid) and Alpha Linolenic Acid (which is an omega-3 fatty acid).

However, in terms of benefits in the body, you can not go passed the other omega-3 fatty acids - EPA and DHA. This is because, although the body can produce these from ALA, it only does this to a limited degree and we usually do not get enough to fill our requirements.

In terms of sources:
You can get LA from lots of plant (eg: most seeds and nuts, grains and legumes, vegetables) as well as some animal sources. PB is a good source, as is sunflower seeds, walnuts, flaxseeds, seseme seeds and vegetable oils (sunflower esp so).

ALA you get in high amounts in things such as walnuts, linseeds, some oils (soybean oil, hemp oil, flaxseed oil), avocado (well, a little bit anyway) and some animal sources (eggs, grass fed game meats).

But in terms of the other omega-3 fats, DHA and EPA (which, in my opinion are VERY important to make sure you get - even more so than the LA - just because you tend to get a lot of this from your daily foods), you are looking at seafood (salmon, mackrel, sardines and tuna) and fish-oil caps as your two sources.

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Maybe the question I should ask then, is how much EFAs should I be intaking in a day.

How much - Well, I would supplement with 6 to 10g of fish oils a day. Then try to eat a good balance of omega-6 and omega-3 fats (flax, walnuts, fatty fish) in your diet (Generally you should try to get a 1:1 ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 fats...).

Overall fat levels in your diet should be ~0.3 to 0.6g of fat per pound bodyweight, so that means your fat intake on a daily bases (from all sources) should be between 36 and 72g (depending on your goals and prefered fuel source).

From that, try to limit your saturated fats (some saturated fats are ok, but you generally do not need to go 'searching' for these, they are usually provided in your diet regardless) and aim to get most of your fats from poly-unsaturated (eg: Your essential omega-3 and omega-6 fats) and mono-unsaturated sources (eg: olive oil, avocado).

Do I include this fat intake in the % of fat I should be getting out of my daily calories. For example, if I'm supposed to have 20% of my calories from fat, do my EFAs count toward this 20%?

Yeah they do count. So, if you take suppliments to fill your needs (eg: Fish caps) then you need to count these in your totals. 1 capsule usually = 1g of fish oil or 9 calories (1g fat).

I've been intaking around 32-35 grams of fat from EFAs. How should this be spread out over the course of a day? I've been taking 1/2 in the morning and 1/2 pre-workout. Didn't realized I should have some before bed.

32-35g! Are you taking this as supplements as in fish oil caps or are you just talking all your fat sources combined (eg: PB, nuts, capsules, oils etc).

Anyway, you should spread capsules roughly equally through the day (eg: if you take 6 caps then 2 caps with breakfast, two at lunch and two at an evening meal) then also spread your dietry fats through the day (esp in those meals where you do not get a lot of carbs and in your pre-bed meal).

The only times I generally refrain from any fats is pre-exercise (if you eat within 1-1.5 hrs of the meal, as the fat will delay absorption of the meal) and post-workout (as it will also delay absorption).

eg: an example if you eat 5 meals before you workout
Meal 1: Carbs + protein + dietry fats
Meal 2: Carbs + protein + EFA supps
Meal 3: Carbs + protein + dietry fats
Meal 4: Carbs + protein + EFA supps
Meal 5 (pre-workout): Carbs + protein
PWO Shake: Carbs + protein
Meal 6 (pre-bed): Protein + dietry fats + EFA supps

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

EFA's (well, all fats really) simply slow the digestion of your protein (they delay the rate at which food leaves your stomach) - so the protein will still be absorbed, just at a slower rate.

Adding fats to your pre-bed meal is therefore a good thing. It will slow the digestion even further, resulting in a slow release of the protein from your stomach during the evening. It will also provide your body with a 'fuel' to use during the evening (as apposed to relying on your bodies internal fat and glycogen stores) - which is beneficial if you are trying to grow and maintain lean muscle.

What she said.