Thread: Cutting Diet

Ditch the Oj

Add some EFA's

Originally Posted by Cold Iron

Ditch the Oj

Add some EFA's

Pretty much, yeah.

Just make sure you add some EFA's with your shake in your last meal. I personally feel you would be better off with 1% cottage cheese for this meal instead of a shake.

Thats the 2nd time jodi has agreed with me lately, I feel special

Thank you very much for your responses, both of you.

EFA's, ok.
I really don't like cottage cheese, or I would totally do it. Is there a good alternative?
By saying ditch the OJ, I'm assuming you are saying ditch all sources of simple sugars, correct?

I know this is a lot of questions already, but I also wanted to know if ya'll thought the calorie/carb/protein amounts were about right.

Originally Posted by thatguy

I am going to start cutting in a few weeks, and I'm starting to work on a diet. I did something like this a while back, and it seemed to lean me up, but I want your professional opinions.

Meal 1: 6 egg whites, bowl of oatmeal, orange juice
Meal 2: grilled chicken breasts (9-10 oz.), one cup of brown rice, one cup of veggies
Meal 3: MRP (you know, your standard MRP, nothing special)
Meal 4: same as meal two
Meal 5: same as meal two
Meal 6: protein shake (before bed)

Supplementing with a multi, a thermogenic, and creatine.

I know that's a lot of chicken and rice, but that's something I don't really ever get sick of. If I'm pressed for time, I might replace Meal 4 or 5 for another MRP.

Tell me what you think.
Please.

Can't make specific comments due to your lack of ratio info/quantity info or info on your particular stats but bump on the general advice so far.

1/ Remove Oj.
2/ Add EFA's.
3/ Replace protein shake with cottage cheese + EFA/healthy fats. But if you must use a powder then use a casein powder, not whey.

Yes, the oj is simple sugars. You would be better off with a small piece of fruit like an apple.

Originally Posted by thatguy

I really don't like cottage cheese, or I would totally do it. Is there a good alternative?

As I said, ou can try a casein protein powder.... Also, foods such as salmon, whole eggs, LEAN red meat or (if you can stomach it) more chicken (add fats) would be ok... If you could find a hard cheese with very little fats and carbs that would be ok (there is stuff you can get here in Australia that has 35g protein, 0g carbs and 6g fat per 100g... I am not sure what you have over there).

By saying ditch the OJ, I'm assuming you are saying ditch all sources of simple sugars, correct?

All simple sugars?? Hmmm (me and Jodi disagree a little here).

Basically, it comes down to how strict you are and what works for you. Some people are fine with a bit of simple sugars, others cut it out completely.

OJ is just a really highly concentrated form of energy without the benefits of whole fruit (fibre, water, phytochemical and it often has far less vitamins and minerals due to the processing). If you want some fruits then you might want to go for apples, berries etc (high fibre, low calorie). A banana might be ok after a workout or for breakfast (once again, this depends on your personal preference and your bodies reaction to certain foods).

I know this is a lot of questions already, but I also wanted to know if ya'll thought the calorie/carb/protein amounts were about right.

Well - if you gave quantities for everything that would help! (Along with your stats...).

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Can't make specific comments due to your lack of ratio info/quantity info or info on your particular stats but bump on the general advice so far.

1/ Remove Oj.
2/ Add EFA's.
3/ Replace protein shake with cottage cheese + EFA/healthy fats. But if you must use a powder then use a casein powder, not whey.

Ok, well here are some personal stats and approximations:

Height: 6'2", 210 lbs., about 12% BF, 21 YO

Each meal has about 50 g of protein, 5-7 g of fat, and 40-50 g of carbs.

Each MRP has 50 g of protein, 2 g of fat, and 35 g of carbs.

Protein shake has 50 g of protein.

Totals for the day are about 250 g of protein, 155-185 g of carbs, 17-20 g of fat, and about 2300 calories. (add EFA's to fat total)

Doesn't sound like enough calories, does it?

Originally Posted by thatguy

Ok, well here are some personal stats and approximations:

Height: 6'2", 210 lbs., about 12% BF, 21 YO

Each meal has about 50 g of protein, 5-7 g of fat, and 40-50 g of carbs.

Each MRP has 50 g of protein, 2 g of fat, and 35 g of carbs.

Protein shake has 50 g of protein.

Totals for the day are about 250 g of protein, 155-185 g of carbs, 17-20 g of fat, and about 2300 calories. (add EFA's to fat total)

Doesn't sound like enough calories, does it?

Oops, I left out breakfast which has about 30 g protein, 25 g carbs, 2 g fats, and maybe 500 more calories.

To make a total of 280 g protein, 200 g carbs, and 2800 calories

I think that is enough calories. 2800 cals to start a cut is pretty damn good.

I'm not a fan of store bought MRP's. When progress slows down I'd consider making your own MRP with whey, oats and pb instead.

Originally Posted by Jodi

I think that is enough calories. 2800 cals to start a cut is pretty damn good.

I'm not a fan of store bought MRP's. When progress slows down I'd consider making your own MRP with whey, oats and pb instead.

Why is that?

Originally Posted by thatguy

Ok, well here are some personal stats and approximations:

Height: 6'2", 210 lbs., about 12% BF, 21 YO

Each meal has about 50 g of protein, 5-7 g of fat, and 40-50 g of carbs.

Each MRP has 50 g of protein, 2 g of fat, and 35 g of carbs.

Protein shake has 50 g of protein.

Totals for the day are about 250 g of protein, 155-185 g of carbs, 17-20 g of fat, and about 2300 calories. (add EFA's to fat total)

Doesn't sound like enough calories, does it?


Oops, I left out breakfast which has about 30 g protein, 25 g carbs, 2 g fats, and maybe 500 more calories.

To make a total of 280 g protein, 200 g carbs, and 2800 calories

Ok - that doesn't add up....

Breakfast = 30g protein + 25g carbs + 2g fat = 238 cals
Meal 2, 4 and 5 = 50g protein + 45g carbs + 6g fat = 434 cals (150P, 135C, 18F)
MRP = 50g protein + 35g carbs + 2g fat = 358 cals
Shake = 50g protein = 200 cals

TOTAL = 2098 cals (280g P, 195g C and 22g fat)



Anyway - It doesn't look too bad. A few things:
1/ You might want to increase the carbs in your first meal (25g is not nearly enough). Your breakfast (along with pre & post-workout meals) are when you WANT the carbies. I would consider increasing this. This would also bring your total carbs up to over 1g per pound - which is a better place to be too... Once you hit under about 1g per pound you get into depletion type states (esp if you are doing a bit of cardio) and you might have to start thinking of re-feeds. While you are there add some essential fats (eg: 1 tbs flax) and a little more protein. This will also bring your overall calories up to a more respectable level.

2/ At 210 pounds 2800 cals is not too bad a place to start (but certainly NOT 2100!!!). This would also depend on your current intake level. Don't drop it substantially in one go otherwise you run the risk of stalling early on in your cut.. It also leaves you little room to adjust as time goes on.

3/ In terms of adding EFA's - your fats are pretty low at the moment (22g!!! Arggg - this is not even enough for a 120 pound person!). So you want to add MUCH more. 10g of fish-oil caps a day would be a good start. Then I would consider adding fats to your breakfast (eg: flaxmeal) and your last meal as well - something like 1 oz nuts.

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Ok - that doesn't add up....

Breakfast = 30g protein + 25g carbs + 2g fat = 238 cals
Meal 2, 4 and 5 = 50g protein + 45g carbs + 6g fat = 434 cals (150P, 135C, 18F)
MRP = 50g protein + 35g carbs + 2g fat = 358 cals
Shake = 50g protein = 200 cals

TOTAL = 2098 cals (280g P, 195g C and 22g fat)



Anyway - It doesn't look too bad. A few things:
1/ You might want to increase the carbs in your first meal (25g is not nearly enough). Your breakfast (along with pre & post-workout meals) are when you WANT the carbies. I would consider increasing this. This would also bring your total carbs up to over 1g per pound - which is a better place to be too... Once you hit under about 1g per pound you get into depletion type states (esp if you are doing a bit of cardio) and you might have to start thinking of re-feeds. While you are there add some essential fats (eg: 1 tbs flax) and a little more protein. This will also bring your overall calories up to a more respectable level.

2/ At 210 pounds 2800 cals is not too bad a place to start (but certainly NOT 2100!!!). This would also depend on your current intake level. Don't drop it substantially in one go otherwise you run the risk of stalling early on in your cut.. It also leaves you little room to adjust as time goes on.

3/ In terms of adding EFA's - your fats are pretty low at the moment (22g!!! Arggg - this is not even enough for a 120 pound person!). So you want to add MUCH more. 10g of fish-oil caps a day would be a good start. Then I would consider adding fats to your breakfast (eg: flaxmeal) and your last meal as well - something like 1 oz nuts.

Wonderful information! Ok here are a couple of things:
My caloric intake is right now about 3500 (I'm bulking). Is dropping to 2800 going to be too much?
What would be a good range to bring my fats to?

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by thatguy

Wonderful information! Ok here are a couple of things:
My caloric intake is right now about 3500 (I'm bulking). Is dropping to 2800 going to be too much?
What would be a good range to bring my fats to?

Thanks again!

Ok - If you are bulking at about 3500 cals then 2800 to 3000 sounds like a good starting point for your cut (I would not drop more than about 500 cals though).

Do you have a particular 'time' you want to be ready for?

I would decrease slowly over two weeks to about 3000 cals and then use that as an official starting point. eg: move from there by decreasing 200 more cals over another few weeks and watch your progress in the mirror. Once progress stalls, decrease more calories.


In terms of fats - For health I usually recommend 0.3g per pound [there are exceptions to this, eg: sometimes when you are cutting people drop a bit below this]... Usually people like somewhere between 0.3 and 0.4g per pound. But if you prefer lower carb diets then this of course would need to go up (I like to cap fats at about 0.5 to 0.6g per pound)...

Personally, I would consider increasing your total to at least 55-60g (which is ~0.26 to 0.28g per pound OR 0.29 to 0.32g per pound lean bodyweight). But up to 80-85g would be ok (as long as your overall calorie intake was in check).

This would mean adding about 30-40 grams to your total - which could be achieved with 1 oz walnuts with your last meal (16g) + fish capsules capsules (10g) + and 2 tbs flax meal to your breakfast (8g). [Total = 56g] Then if you added some more oats to your breakfast (eg: 1 cup oats instead of half a cup) and swapped your last shake for cottage cheese or real food then this would add another few grams and bring it up to closer to 60-65g.

This would also bring your fats up to another 'standard' people use for fats (which is at least 15% of your dietry calories... With most prefering 20% as a minimum).

If you started with 2800 cals then maybe think about starting at 280-300g protein (1.3 to 1.4g of protein per pound) and 60-65g fat (0.3g per pound), which then leaves you with ~250 to 270g of carbs to play with (1.2 to 1.3g per pound).

Of course, this all has to be individually 'fitted' to your body type and activity level...

If you could find a hard cheese with very little fats and carbs that would be ok (there is stuff you can get here in Australia that has 35g protein, 0g carbs and 6g fat per 100g... I am not sure what you have over there).

Where do I get that stuff?????

wow...that's a cutting diet? I'm obviously severely UNDER-eating right now...as I'm on a bulk...and not eating that much, i don't think.

can anyone link me to a a few options for a 3500 cal bulk diet. I like to see things in specific quantities and types. It helps me to see it all laid out. Thanks.

Honestly, right now I'm eating the exact diet I listed for cutting, except I'm eating twice as much brown rice, more carbs at breakfast, and weight gainer instead of an MRP. 3500 cals isn't as hard as you think.

what weight gainer are you using, and how many cals does it provide?

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Ok - If you are bulking at about 3500 cals then 2800 to 3000 sounds like a good starting point for your cut (I would not drop more than about 500 cals though).

Do you have a particular 'time' you want to be ready for?

I would decrease slowly over two weeks to about 3000 cals and then use that as an official starting point. eg: move from there by decreasing 200 more cals over another few weeks and watch your progress in the mirror. Once progress stalls, decrease more calories.


In terms of fats - For health I usually recommend 0.3g per pound [there are exceptions to this, eg: sometimes when you are cutting people drop a bit below this]... Usually people like somewhere between 0.3 and 0.4g per pound. But if you prefer lower carb diets then this of course would need to go up (I like to cap fats at about 0.5 to 0.6g per pound)...

Personally, I would consider increasing your total to at least 55-60g (which is ~0.26 to 0.28g per pound OR 0.29 to 0.32g per pound lean bodyweight). But up to 80-85g would be ok (as long as your overall calorie intake was in check).

This would mean adding about 30-40 grams to your total - which could be achieved with 1 oz walnuts with your last meal (16g) + fish capsules capsules (10g) + and 2 tbs flax meal to your breakfast (8g). [Total = 56g] Then if you added some more oats to your breakfast (eg: 1 cup oats instead of half a cup) and swapped your last shake for cottage cheese or real food then this would add another few grams and bring it up to closer to 60-65g.

This would also bring your fats up to another 'standard' people use for fats (which is at least 15% of your dietry calories... With most prefering 20% as a minimum).

If you started with 2800 cals then maybe think about starting at 280-300g protein (1.3 to 1.4g of protein per pound) and 60-65g fat (0.3g per pound), which then leaves you with ~250 to 270g of carbs to play with (1.2 to 1.3g per pound).

Of course, this all has to be individually 'fitted' to your body type and activity level...

Thanks so much for spending time on this!

As far as what I'm preparing for, I'm getting married in late June and I wanted to be a very low body fat. Especially since we're going on a "beach" honeymoon. I was hoping to start cutting in the second week of February until mid April, and then see where I stand. If the fat has come off easily, I would consider doing a light bulk for about 6 weeks to put on a few more lbs of muscle and then cut again before the wedding. If it is coming off really slowly, I'll just cut until I get where I want to be and then maintain.

To some competitors on here, that probably seems like a ridiculous reason to cut, but oh well. I would like to consider competing some day, so doing a cutting cycle to see how I would react is never a bad idea, either. I've never put thought into cutting before - always bulking and then I'd think, "I need to eat less now." That was my cutting.

I plan on doing cardio 3-4 times a week.

Originally Posted by ChrisROCK

what weight gainer are you using, and how many cals does it provide?

I use ON's Serious Mass. I only take a half serving because a full serving with skim milk is like 1500 calories. My half serving with milk gives me about 750.

Originally Posted by KarlW

Where do I get that stuff?????

Coles and woolworths:

'Shape' cheese

Comes in a clear package with green writing... Either as 500g blocks or 250g blocks.

Originally Posted by thatguy

As far as what I'm preparing for, I'm getting married in late June and I wanted to be a very low body fat. Especially since we're going on a "beach" honeymoon. I was hoping to start cutting in the second week of February until mid April, and then see where I stand. If the fat has come off easily, I would consider doing a light bulk for about 6 weeks to put on a few more lbs of muscle and then cut again before the wedding. If it is coming off really slowly, I'll just cut until I get where I want to be and then maintain.

I plan on doing cardio 3-4 times a week.

Sounds like a solid enough reason to me!

I think what you have sounds good. So go with that.... You also have plenty of time! So if things are not progressing as you would like you will have lots of opportunities to change as required.

Good luck.

That...nothing is stupid..Honeymoons are just as important!

Originally Posted by thatguy

As far as what I'm preparing for, I'm getting married in late June and I wanted to be a very low body fat. Especially since we're going on a "beach" honeymoon. I was hoping to start cutting in the second week of February until mid April, and then see where I stand. If the fat has come off easily, I would consider doing a light bulk for about 6 weeks to put on a few more lbs of muscle and then cut again before the wedding. If it is coming off really slowly, I'll just cut until I get where I want to be and then maintain.

Right on! actually that is the whole reason I started a journal, getting married in May and on to Hawaii for the Honeymoon

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Coles and woolworths:

'Shape' cheese

Comes in a clear package with green writing... Either as 500g blocks or 250g blocks.

Hey thanks heaps for putting me onto this. Don't mind a bit of cheese at night, just not that cottage stuff unfortunately . Imagine, a hard cheese with only 6.4g of fat per 100g.

Originally Posted by KarlW

Hey thanks heaps for putting me onto this. Don't mind a bit of cheese at night, just not that cottage stuff unfortunately . Imagine, a hard cheese with only 6.4g of fat per 100g.

Welcome!

The problem with juices isn't just the sugars, it's that there are so many calories in such an overall deficient food. Vitamins are great, but when you're cutting you concentrate a lot on carbs, which juices have a lot of, and protein, which they have none of. I used to love pineapple juice, but when I started my cut I had to ditch all juices, gatorade, powerade, etc..

Sorry to drag this out again, but...

I started cutting a couple of days ago, and I've taken your advice on everything (I think). This is how my diet has looked so far (info from fitday.com):

Meal 1:
5 egg whites, 1 whole egg
1 cup (uncooked) oatmeal
1 medium apple
6 Fish Oil Caps
F-16, P-36, C-73

Meal 2:
1 MRP w/ water
1/2 cup (uncooked) oatmeal
F-4.5, P-51, C-49

Meal 3:
9.5 oz grilled chicken
1 cup broccoli
1.5 cups brown rice
6 Fish Oil caps
F-14, P-71, C-80

Meal 4:
Same as Meal 2

Meal 5:
Same as Meal 3 except sometimes I'll replace the chicken with a whey protein shake out of lazyness.

Meal 6:
1 Tbsp Natty PB
Casein protein shake w/ water
F-9, P-27, C-4

Totals: Calories-3012, F-59, P-293, C-331 (19%, 40%, 41%)

Is there anything here you think I need to change before I go further? I figured I'd start out at around 3000 calories and reduce if needed.

Thanks in advance for your input.