Thread: Pre/Post WO Meals

Originally Posted by Kimber

Hi...just want to make sure I'm doing this right with my pre and post workout meals. My WO is usually at about 5pm. Meal times fall at 3:30 for pre-WO and usually about 6pm for post-WO (depends if its cardio + weights or just weights). This is what I currently have:

3:30 pm: 2 scoops whey (23gP/scoop) with water and an apple
6:00 pm: 1 scoop whey w/ water and an apple
7:00 pm: lean meat, salad +/- complex carb (carb cycling diet)

My guess is that I'm probably better off eating real food for my 3:30 meal since its so long until the next? Maybe a can of tuna instead of the whey? Any advice? Thanks!

If you are carb cycling then you would need to alter your pre-WO and post-WO meals depending on your day.

But - on a carb day you want better carbs both pre and post.

The amount you have would alter depending on your weight but an example woul be:
Pre - 0.5 cups oats, 0.5 apple, 120g tuna, celery
post - 0.5 cups oats, 0.5 apple, 1 scoop whey
meal - lean meat + salad +/- other carbs +/- 0.5 apple

Ok, thanks Emma!

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

If you are carb cycling then you would need to alter your pre-WO and post-WO meals depending on your day.

But - on a carb day you want better carbs both pre and post.

The amount you have would alter depending on your weight but an example woul be:
Pre - 0.5 cups oats, 0.5 apple, 120g tuna, celery
post - 0.5 cups oats, 0.5 apple, 1 scoop whey
meal - lean meat + salad +/- other carbs +/- 0.5 apple

I would recommend some more in the way of simple carbs post workout. A whole apple, not a half. Even a second piece of fruit or a bagel. Sip some juice if you have to. An ectomorph can even get away with some soda or Gatorade if necessary. The body needs some simple carbs post workout and very quickly.

Originally Posted by Egoatdoor

I would recommend some more in the way of simple carbs post workout. A whole apple, not a half. Even a second piece of fruit or a bagel. Sip some juice if you have to. An ectomorph can even get away with some soda or Gatorade if necessary. The body needs some simple carbs post workout and very quickly.

Soda....why the hell would you do that?!?!

There is no need to drink that unless your running in the ironman.

You can choose either simple or complex carbs...its your choice depending on if you want an insulin spike or not. Since emma says she is carb cycling all she gets is half an apple not a full one...just simply restoring glycogen(sp?) stores here.

On Lo carb day I get 40-50gC with my 3 carb meals which comes out to about 30-40%. A small apple + 1 cup oats =42g C. No carb day isn't an issue cuz NO carbs and I try to avoid scheduling WO's on those days. Hi carb day I don't keep track, I just have a piece of fruit before and after, and now oats too at Emma's suggestion. That right?

Deadbolt--I tried the chicken with natty pb...not bad, but the tuna/pb?? that one really must be an acquired taste!

Originally Posted by Kimber

On Lo carb day I get 40-50gC with my 3 carb meals which comes out to about 30-40%. A small apple + 1 cup oats =42g C. No carb day isn't an issue cuz NO carbs and I try to avoid scheduling WO's on those days. Hi carb day I don't keep track, I just have a piece of fruit before and after, and now oats too at Emma's suggestion. That right?

Deadbolt--I tried the chicken with natty pb...not bad, but the tuna/pb?? that one really must be an acquired taste!

Yes you always want carbs pre and post but more then just fructose type fruits. Legumes, oats, brown rice, etc all work fine for pre and post w/o. I wouldn't get into the dext/malto or any of the spiking your insulin just yet. Especially trying to cut some lbs its not the ideal time for it.

Yea chicken and natty pb is ok but my fav is still w/ the tuna. How can you not like it LOL. Its so calorie dense its perfect!! I use to do that with some pasta mixed in...melt the pb down a bit then mix it all with warm tuna and pasta. All mellows together and I pack it up for the road!

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

melt the pb down a bit then mix it all with warm tuna and pasta.

that is foul...

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

Soda....why the hell would you do that?!?!

For SIMPLE CARBS. No, it is not ordinary, but its better than nothing and if someone likes soda and HAS to have it, then taking it for post workout replenishment is better than taking it at other times. It can also depend on one's body type. I referred specifically to ectomorphs. If one is an endo, then no, they probably should not be drinking any sodas.

There is no need to drink that unless your running in the ironman.

I just answered that.

You can choose either simple or complex carbs...its your choice depending on if you want an insulin spike or not.

Not necessarily true. If one takes only low GI complex carbs, they could take too long to get in the system to prevent muscle catabolism.

Since emma says she is carb cycling all she gets is half an apple not a full one...just simply restoring glycogen(sp?) stores here.

The difference between a half and a whole apple is so immaterial in calories and carbs( 40 calories and 10 grams of carbs for a medium apple)...why should one punish themselves by eating a half apple. Eat the whole thing.

Soda is shit and there is absolutely no reason what so ever for her to drink it....there are a million other options even for simple carbs then soda. Thats the dumbest thing I've heard someone suggest.

Low GI carbs are fine post wo...it takes far to long to go into catabolism. Your talking like it takes 5 hours for the carbs to digest. Because she is consuming a pre w/o meal anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour before the workout then a post w/o meal directly after she isn't going to be going any longer then 3 hours without food. There are plenty of people who don't spike post w/o and only use low gi, complex carbs and they don't face the problem of catabolism nor do I. Or let me guess your still the person that workouts for 4 hours thinking your going to grow more?

A medium apple is roughly 70-80 calories, 20-25 carbs, and about 15 sugars. All you need is half of that...you don't want to be taking in to many sugars. When dieting there is no room for those extra calories...40 calories here and there add up during the day...when you eat apple at every carb . Read up on the principles behind carb cycling before suggesting material you know nothing about.

Obviously you don't understand her goals here...I know your intentions are in the right place but there are times for certain pieces of advice. She can't afford any additional sugars or crap such as soda in her diet right now because she is cutting.

Originally Posted by LAM

that is foul...

Don't knock it till ya try it brotha!!

Mix the warm pasta, tuna, natty pb, veggies, some water from the pasta to loosen it all up and seasonings to taste. Its awsome...sorta tastes like tai peanut sauce lol.

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

Soda is shit and there is absolutely no reason what so ever for her to drink it....there are a million other options even for simple carbs then soda. Thats the dumbest thing I've heard someone suggest.

You are entitled to your opinion, but in magazine articles, Craig Titus, Lee Priest and Flex Magazine( " A Day in the Life") all did not rule out soda and/or Gatorade as post workout simple carbs, IN MODERATION, of course.

Low GI carbs are fine post wo...it takes far to long to go into catabolism. Your talking like it takes 5 hours for the carbs to digest. Because she is consuming a pre w/o meal anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour before the workout then a post w/o meal directly after she isn't going to be going any longer then 3 hours without food. There are plenty of people who don't spike post w/o and only use low gi, complex carbs and they don't face the problem of catabolism nor do I. Or let me guess your still the person that workouts for 4 hours thinking your going to grow more?

. Again I disagree, but it seems like we can argue for six months over this and will still be at the same point. I can only point to results and I would bet that most of those who do not take simple carbs post workout do not progress and will still look the same anatomically a year from now compared to those like me who are putting on pounds of muscle each year at over 40 years old without using any drugs.

And by the way, I train three days a week. I know enough that the body grows OUTSIDE the gym, not in it. The less I train, the more I grow, so much for that....

A medium apple is roughly 70-80 calories, 20-25 carbs, and about 15 sugars. All you need is half of that...you don't want to be taking in to many sugars. When dieting there is no room for those extra calories...40 calories here and there add up during the day...when you eat apple at every carb . Read up on the principles behind carb cycling before suggesting material you know nothing about.

I know all about carb cycling and have done it myself. But I am also not an advocate of no or low carb dieting when one is training unless it is in the last stages of contest prep and only for short periods of time. If one is carbing so low that 10 carbs will make a difference, then it is too extreme. And besides, I am talking post workout nutrition. If the 10 carbs to be made up, do at some other time of the day when catabolism is not an issue.

And again, I think it is obsessive and extreme to be taking something as small as an apple, cutting it IN HALF and then eating what, two little bites. Healthy lifestyles are not about such micro managing and forcing one to deprive themselves so extremely. That is exactly why the fad diets fail.

Obviously you don't understand her goals here...I know your intentions are in the right place but there are times for certain pieces of advice. She can't afford any additional sugars or crap such as soda in her diet right now because she is cutting.

OK, I will agree that she should not be drinking soda and no I am not intimately familiar with her goals. But I was speaking in the context of 1) if the trainee absolutely feels the need to drink the stuff and cannot help themselves, then the lesser of 2 evils is to take it after a workout and 2) for ectomorphs, they can bend the rules more than other fattier body types. Read my original post again. It was used as an example, not necessarily saying it applied in all cases like hers.

I've seen alot of stupid shit in some of those magazines...most of those authers should be taken behind a barn and forced to go through electro shock to their balls they are so useless. Its just another way for them to advertise another god damn drug. Gatroade I can agree with you sometimes it has its place but soda....never! There are many other better options for better carb choices.

You have to be joking right? You are saying that the only way you can add LBM is if you use simple carbs post w/o? I've never seen someone talk so much out of their ass as you are now. Are you telling me that my gains were just part of my imagination? There are a ton of people here that do not use simple carbs post w/o and still have phenominal gains. What scientific proof can you provide saying that you only gain LBM if you consume simple carbs post w/o? I have to read this b/c if you can provide one I'm gonna be the next biggest medical study out there to prove them wrong....as well as many other people in this world.

You DON'T need simple carbs post w/o....some don't need to trigger an insulins pike for hypertrophy. Everyone is different and respons differently to carb choices, just because you have great experiences with simple carbs and soda post w/o doesn't mean that its the only way to go and all others who don't do it will never gain LBM.

For her current situation spiking her insulin would not be ideal...you want to maintain the levels as to try not to trigger fat storage at all...especially during the last few stages of a cut.

So because you are not a fan of cutting or low carb diets means she shouldn't do it? You may not enjoy it but because she is doing it means you should try to help her any way possible not try to change her methods. If you know so much about carb cycling then you would know it is an overall count of calories throughout the week. By her taking in that extra 160 calories every carb day add up at the end...even if she is doing the standard h/l/n/h/l/n/l thats an additonal 700 calories she doesn't need.

Post w/o is no exception for someone to go out and splurge during a cut b/c...Oh no we don't want catabolsim. No the apple is not for a source of carbs just the restore you glycogen and leptin levels in the liver thats all. Half of an apple is plenty to do its job so why eat the extra calories and sugar? Fruits will hinder fat loss at a certain stage so the excess of it would not be beneficial. Her primary carbs are coming from the oats, brown rice, and legumes. There is no room for simple carbs in this diet.

We're not talking about a fad diet here....she is cutting currently whether it be for a competition of simply to lose a couple of lbs but regardless that doesn't change how the whole concept of this works. If that were the case she could replace everything to suit her wants and still lose weight. There are reasons to why this works and if you try changing it all you change the whole science behind it.

Originally Posted by DeadBolt

I've seen alot of stupid shit in some of those magazines...most of those authers should be taken behind a barn and forced to go through electro shock to their balls they are so useless. Its just another way for them to advertise another god damn drug. Gatroade I can agree with you sometimes it has its place but soda....never! There are many other better options for better carb choices.

You have to be joking right? You are saying that the only way you can add LBM is if you use simple carbs post w/o? I've never seen someone talk so much out of their ass as you are now. Are you telling me that my gains were just part of my imagination? There are a ton of people here that do not use simple carbs post w/o and still have phenominal gains. What scientific proof can you provide saying that you only gain LBM if you consume simple carbs post w/o? I have to read this b/c if you can provide one I'm gonna be the next biggest medical study out there to prove them wrong....as well as many other people in this world.

You DON'T need simple carbs post w/o....some don't need to trigger an insulins pike for hypertrophy. Everyone is different and respons differently to carb choices, just because you have great experiences with simple carbs and soda post w/o doesn't mean that its the only way to go and all others who don't do it will never gain LBM.

For her current situation spiking her insulin would not be ideal...you want to maintain the levels as to try not to trigger fat storage at all...especially during the last few stages of a cut.

So because you are not a fan of cutting or low carb diets means she shouldn't do it? You may not enjoy it but because she is doing it means you should try to help her any way possible not try to change her methods. If you know so much about carb cycling then you would know it is an overall count of calories throughout the week. By her taking in that extra 160 calories every carb day add up at the end...even if she is doing the standard h/l/n/h/l/n/l thats an additonal 700 calories she doesn't need.

Post w/o is no exception for someone to go out and splurge during a cut b/c...Oh no we don't want catabolsim. No the apple is not for a source of carbs just the restore you glycogen and leptin levels in the liver thats all. Half of an apple is plenty to do its job so why eat the extra calories and sugar? Fruits will hinder fat loss at a certain stage so the excess of it would not be beneficial. Her primary carbs are coming from the oats, brown rice, and legumes. There is no room for simple carbs in this diet.

We're not talking about a fad diet here....she is cutting currently whether it be for a competition of simply to lose a couple of lbs but regardless that doesn't change how the whole concept of this works. If that were the case she could replace everything to suit her wants and still lose weight. There are reasons to why this works and if you try changing it all you change the whole science behind it.

OK DB, I've been trying to be nice, but I'm fed up. You are an ass.

There has been plenty written to document my points. Simple carbs are necessary post workout. No, there may be exceptions to every rule and you say you are one. But the fact remains, are MY GAINS a figment of my imagination? NO. And many others who know about pre and post workout nutrition also show gains, while many gym rats and others who either don't know better or are misguided (95% of the people in the gyms I go to) continue to train and train and train and get nowhere.

No, I am not saying add 700 calories a week. I am saying EAT THE APPLE AFTER THE WORKOUT AND CUT THE CARBS IN ANOTHER PART OF THE DAY, asshole. Read what I write, or maybe you can't read...

You can write and rant however much you want from here on out. I'm outa here...this is my last post here on anything you have to say. The others here can decide what they want to do. I've spoken my piece....

Oh Christ. The insulin spike debate again. You do not need to spike your insulin post workout to see results. That is complete nonsense. Does it help? Yeah, I'm sure plenty of people benefit from doing it. However, it is certainly not necessary.