confusedBuilder

Hi guys,

I'm 22, weigh:145, ht:5-6. I've been trying to bulk up since the last month and have been eating like 4000 calories a day(abt 6 meals, 65%carbs, 25%protein, 10%fat). And I am working out 4 days a week. I am gaining mass, but also my stomach is expanding so much. I just wanted to know from people who have been doing this bulking/cutting for a long time as to if this is normal?? Will my stomach contract during the cutting phase???

Because I'm already short, the last thing I need is a tummy on top of that.
Any information wud be greatly appreciated and help me solve my dilemna as to if I should continue with this program

Thanks!!
confusedBuilder

Kracin

eating a ton during bulking, will obviously expand the stomach. and depending on how long you cut for, it will go down again, but once you build some decent abs the stomach wont show as bad when your bulking

confusedBuilder

Thanks for the response man ... thats what I thought wud happen .. but wanted to double check with people who'd been on that road. The other problem with my abs is, I can feel them when I flex them, but cant see them coz of a small layer of fat. Hopefully that will change when I'm cutting down my body far :-) I will stick to this routine come what may.

BTW. Kracin I checked out your other posts and saw how you totally transformed yourself. Awesome job man!!! Keep going!!

LAM

65% is a hell of a lot of carbs. if resistance training is the only sport you are envolved in, IMO that's way too many carbs. if you are a competitive athlete in season, that is a different story.

personally I would NEVER go under 30% protein.

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

njdevil13

i couldnt even get 65 percent carbs. i go by a 30/50/20 deal, and its still hard for me to get my carbs in. dammmn, you must be consuming at least 2400 cals just from carbs..

Smoo_lord

drop the carbs dude, fair enough you are bulking, but 65% is insane.

maybe down to 45% and then up the protein accordingly

Emma-Leigh

Ok - Firstly I just have to quickly say that I although you probably do need less carbs, I don't neccessarily agree with people saying 'drop your carbs' on the basis of ratio's alone... We need more information on you to tell you whether or not this level of carbs is appropriate and dietry ratio's are not that important in terms of what you need... What you eat and how much of each macronutrient you eat needs varies on an individual basis - it should be altered according to your lean mass, your daily activities (how much, type, intensity, duration etc), your physiological status (age, hormone levels etc) and your genetics (your metabolism and natural energy output). Not your calorie intake....

So.... Anyway - To get to your question:
Well - how 'normal' it is depends on how 'dirty' you like to bulk. If you bulk dirty, then you have to live with some extra pudge around the stomach... But, yes, you can clean that up in your cutting phase (although it is much more of a hassle if you let it get out of hand).

Now.... Your fat to muscle gains will depend on lots of things - like how lean you are when you start to bulk, your age, your training intensity and your diet...

If you have a high BF% now, then you tend to gain a higher proportion of fat mass (sucks, but it is what happens)...

In terms of your age - you are 22 - so you are still at a great age for adding lean mass.

For training - what are you doing? You are training 4 days/week but what does this involve? Are you doing any cardio? Usually - as long as you are not doing anything entirely stupid then this will be ok....

So you probably want to look at your diet.

4000 cals is a lot for someone who only weighs 145 pounds.... Why so are you eating so much? How did you come to the conclussion that you need to eat that much? Also, at 4000 cals, with 65% carbs, 25% protein and 10% fat, that means you are eating 650g Carbs ( ), 250g protein (boardering on the highish side for someone your size), and 45g fat (a little low).

For 145 pounds, at your age, I would think you have a maintainence of about 2500 to 3000 cals (unless you are really active or you have a really fast metabolism) - so, you would be better off with calories down between 3000 and 3500...

So - firstly, lower your calories... If you want to stall your fat gains then I would suggest you drop back to about maintainence (so 3000 cals or so - but you would want to decrease to this level over the course of a few weeks) and stay at that for a few weeks. Allow your body to 'rest' and recompose a little and then gradually increase calories again (but probably not to the same level).

Otherwise, take off about 500 cals and then monitor yourself for a few weeks

I would also council you to reconsider how much fat you are getting - at 145 pounds, you want to be getting a minimum of about 45g of fats for a healthy diet (although you may want a little less than this when in the last few weeks of cutting)... So I would suggest you go up to a healthy figure of at least about 0.4g/pound if you are trying to gain mass. This means you want about 60g. Realistically, 0.5g/pound (73g) or, if you are REALLY active, then 0.6g/pound(90g) would be ok. To get these you want to add your poly-unsaturated fats (eg: fish, nuts, seeds) or mono-unsaturated fats (eg: olive oil, avocado).

Your protein intake is ok... anywhere between 1.0g and 1.5g per pound is good... Which means, 180g and 220g for 145 pounds...

So, if you drop your intake back down to ~3000-3500 cals (so, say we pick 3200 to start) this would mean that:
65g of fat (585 cals)
250g protein (1000 cals)
Which leaves you ~400g of carbs.

Which would give you a ratio of 18% fats, 32% protein and 50% carbs.

KarlW

ya dude 4000 is heaps. I know everyone is different but a clean bulk for me is around 3000 and I'm 160.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

LW83

Are you serious?

I'm 173ish 5'10" and I'm eating 3850cals a day VERY fuckin' clean (see my journal) I'm barely gaining 1/2 of a pound a week.

monkeyd

everyone is different... depends on your metabolism.

I went from 163 -> 205lb eventually eating 4000 clean cals a day in 7 meals, that took a year with 30lb in the final 6 months.

thajeepster

I am actually gaining, all beit slowly, on about 2500 cals a day, im 150, although next week i may go up another 3-500. I get in around 300+ carbs a day. Seems plenty to me.

KarlW

Beats me, I guess everyone is even more different than I thought.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

KarlW

eg Here's what I ate today. I never once felt hungry or craved anything:

8am
1 multi and 2 fish oil caps
1 egg and 4 whites
1/2 cup oatmeal
1/2 scoop whey in water (with the oatmeal raw)
small handful blueberries

9am
workout

10am
PWO - 1/2 cup oatmeal in 100ml skim milk, 1 scoop whey in water

11am
2 fish oil caps
1 small chicken breast
1/2 cup cooked brown rice
8 almonds
2 cups veges

2pm
1.5 scoops whey in water
1 small apple
3 teaspoon NPB

5pm
2 fish oil caps
150g tuna
6 strawberries
5 half walnuts

8pm - chicken meatloaf
150g minced chicken breast
1/2 cup cottage cheese
1/4 cup oatmeal
veges

11pm
50g turkey breast
25g low fat cheddar cheese
10 almonds


From my calcs that's about 2300 calories, have I got it wrong?

I do intend to incorporate higher carb days into this btw.

What this means is that when we drop a ball and it falls to the ground, it wasn't the ball that moved (down to the ground), but the ground that moved (up to the ball)

shiznit2169

the same thing sort of happens to me. I am 18 years old, 6'1 and 170 pounds.

I have been bulking for about 2-3 weeks now and eating 3200-3700 calories a day. However, even though i work on my abs a lot and feel them when i flex, it seems like my stomach is expanding as well. I'm afraid im going to get fat and too bulky before its too late to cut. I have a very fast metabolism though and ive always been skinny even when i eat a lot of junk food before i started training. I dont know if my mind is playing with me telling me im getting fat or im still the same and just worry too much.

confusedBuilder

Yea ... i was tired of being skinny .. so I sought some help from a trainer at 24hr fitness. This was the meal-plan he suggested for my bulking up phase. Please note than other i sit at the desk all day. My workout is the only form of activity for me.
and also my workout schedule involves 4 days(60 min) of weight training and 2 days(30min) of low intensity cardio

9AM - 1 cup oatmeal + 1 bagel
11AM - 4 scoops protein powder + 16oz Orange Juice
1PM - 1 Banana + protein bar
3pM - 4 scoops protein powder + 16oz Orange Juice
6PM - A plate of pasta
8pm - workout
9:15 - 4 scoops protein powder + 16oz Orange Juice
10:15 - 1 chicken breast + plate of pasta

The above plan added up to 4300 calories(65c/25p/10f)

I followed this plan for a whole weak religiously .... and as Emma explained, I was gaining more fat than muscle (I was at 15%BF before I started). So I cut down some of the portions and now i am down to about 3800 calories.

But even this seems too much for my metabolism I think. I'm definitely eating more than what my body needs. I'll probably try going at 3200 calories a day to see how my body responds.
Maybe that will put me on a path to a cleaner bulk....whats the point in putting on fat and then spending countless hrs at the gym to take it off again :-)

I'm kicking myslelf that I didnt know abt this forum earlier. You guys give very valuable advice, but the trainer at 24hr fitness asks me to continue the same plan every time I talk to him. He says getting fat is NORMAL during bulking.

Thanks for all the great advice guys!!

LAM

that is a horrible diet...

at 145 lbs you should have started at around 2900 cals. then you increase cals by 10% each week until weight gain occurs

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

Stu

agreed. thats one of the worst diets i've seen

you've only got one complete protien source (chicken), the rest is all in the form of shakes

you've have hardly any complex carbs, no vegtables, no efas

your meals are not balanced at all

you have no protien pre workout

your breakfast (the most important meal of the day) is seriously lacking protien

i would start a new thread in diet&nutrition post your diet up and ask for opinions

Stu

your trainer clearly does not know shit

ST240

im 19 years old... 154 lbs. i dont gain permanent weight from 3200 per day which is what im at now.... sure ill go up to 159... but if i slack on one day, the next morning im down to 154 again

edit: its hard to eat more than 3200 becuase i get so full and also im a full time student in university (although i know thats no excuse )

actually im going to make a complete diet thread some time soon