Thread: Milk Good Or Evil????

Originally Posted by KittyKat

MILK?????(skim)

Good idea or bad idea when trying to loose weight and gain muscle???

GREAT IDEA!!!

I had a couple of replies to my 'horrible protein powder' thread regarding the taste of promax with water( ) Some said milk good others bad.....

Many people have this wierd idea that milk is somehow 'bad' for you when cutting - something about the 'lactose' being a 'sugar' that is bad for you... In reality it usually does not make a difference to the average person trying to lose weight. And when most people say "I lost weight when I cut out dairy" it is usually because they cut calories...

Sure, to someone in the last few weeks of a competition cut, you might want to cut it out - but this is simply for the effect that it has on water retension (it can cause some subcutaneous water retention in some people).

(Note - The obvious exception is those that are lactose intolerant - in their instance, yes, cutting dairy would be a beneficial thing).

Milk/dairy actually AIDS in fat loss! It helps promote a good body composition through promoting lose of fat mass and it AIDS in lean mass retention. This is through a combination of things (calcium, CLA and some 'unknown' factors)...

It is also HIGHLY anabolic (due to growth factors and it's unique mix of carbohydrate and proteins). And the lactose is actually REALLY beneficial to the body. The glucose component (50%) can go to directly fed muscle tissue whilst the galactose (50%) aims in the maintainence of the body in a fed state - this is really important whilst in calorie deficiency as it helps to prevent the decrease in metabolic rate that is experienced with decreased calorie intake.

It also has GREAT anti-catabolic properties - mostly due to the casein present.

Anyway - here are some articles about it if you are interested in reading them.


Calcium and Dairy Acceleration of Weight and Fat Loss during Energy Restriction in Obese Adults

Mechanisms of Dairy Modulation of Adiposity

Role of calcium and dairy products in energy partitioning and weight management

Role of dietary calcium and dairy products in modulating adiposity.



Here are some other really good reads about the role of dairy in fat loss:

Dietary Proteins in the Regulation of Food Intake and Body Weight in Humans


Manufacture and Use of Dairy Protein Fractions

PS How many people eat protein bars?? Are they ok for emergencies or everyday when making meals with a good protein carb balance is difficult...eg when in work etc..

I don't touch the horrible things. Most of them are pure nastiness pretending to be 'healthy'.

They would be an ok alternative for emergencies - but there are ALWAYS better solutions (eg: always have a little container of ground oats, 3 fish oil capsules and some whey powder in your backpack so if you need to you can grab a water bottle, pour this in and shake). Or, if you are out, you can always duck into a corner store and get a tub of ff/sf yoghurt, an apple and a can of tuna.... (or get a carton of skim milk! ).

You can also make your own bars with oats/oatbran, egg whites, protein powder, cottage cheese, applesauce, PB/nuts etc. and store them in the freezer for when you need a quick meal.

Thank You Emma-Leigh!!!

Great advice again....if you started charging you would be a rich woman (I am persuming your female with the name Emma )

The reply you gave me regarding my diet was great and Ive got fish oils and various other bits and bobs now.

I was wondering if you get chance one day if you could post what you eat.....Im being nosey and want to compare with other girls diets

Yeah I have put the protein bars away and shall make an effort to eat proper food.....

Finally...do you think post work out nutrition shakes are bad news then?

K Kat xxx

What exactly do you mean by pwo nutrition shakes? If you mean whey water (or milk ) with perhaps some oats in there...maybe some other things....than it is great news! If it is a "weight loss nutrition shake" then I would stay away.

Its a big MILKSHAKE that you guzzle after a session...

No its a post nutrition work out shake by Dorian Yates (well endosed by him)
its whey and glucose....is it rubbish??

Better to have a bannanna and a whey shake with water or milk??

I am still abit wary of the old milk still confused Emma sez good someone else on my protein shake thread said its crap for loosing weight...ahhh think Emma-Leigh is on the ball though :

K kat x

Originally Posted by overthepond

What exactly do you mean by pwo nutrition shakes? If you mean whey water (or milk ) with perhaps some oats in there...maybe some other things....than it is great news! If it is a "weight loss nutrition shake" then I would stay away.

What do you do with your oats??

Do you make them into porridge or shakes???

Do you put your readybreak or quaker oats in a shaker dry and add milk/water protein powder etc?? Do they just float around the glass dry and bitty??? You can tell I have never made one before!!

I may have read the nutrition facts for the wrong products in his line but I say scrap them! They have very little protein for pwo and are loaded with sugar. Some simple carbs are okay pwo but complex are needed too. So whey with water oats and a banana or whey with milk and oats

You are right just looking at the ingredients as I type this message....lots of sugar and less whey....so its in the bin for Dorian Yates

Whey it is part water part milk....(its puke with just water )
with bannana or oats...

could you share your shake secret with me then....do you just throw them in and drink them

XXXX

it depends on your taste, some people here do, some people blend it all up in a blender. I don't have a blender so I put the oats in the fridge the night before and they get pretty hydrated, plus they sit around in the shake, if it sits for the length of my workout and the time it takes to get to the gym they aren't so bad, they get pretty bearable.

I would say try the blender first. Grind the oats into powder, add whey+liquid and whatever else you might want (banana, berries, etc). Make it before going to the gym and put it in a bottle of some kind.

Originally Posted by KittyKat

MILK?????(skim) Good idea or bad idea when trying to loose weight and gain muscle???

i thought all kittykats loved milk? hee-he...

i had no idea about Milk (and the benefits of..) until i started out on my Fitness Journey not long ago.... and surprising statistics about milk it was? i too found, "Say, YES 2 MILK 4 BF loss and 4 LBM Gain!"

Milk 4 Weight Loss?

Michael Zemel, PhD, director of the Nutrition Institute at the Univ. of Tennessee at Knoxville, has been known to have published many papers on this subject.

He claims when we try to lose weight and cut dairy from our diets, "we are shooting ourselves in the foot?" and is not a good thing to remove milk and/or dairy from our diets. He explains how dairy contains (hundreds of compounds) that not only has a Positive effect on our bodies, but also enhances our fat burning machinery. In other words, Milk & Dairy help to start our "fat burning Engines!"

Why?
In the words of Nutritional expert, Michael Zemel, "When we cut dairy products, we send the body a signal--to make more fat." (ouch! )

How?
Zemel also states the, How it happens, effect..."when your body is deprived of calcium, it begins conserving calcium. That mechanism prompts your body to produce higher levels of a hormone called calcitriol, and that triggers an increased production of fat cells."

____________________
....so it's ok 2 drink ur milk, kittykat.
Me-ow-ww!!

I think dairy is great, when the fat content is low...FF SF Yogurts can brighten a morning meal and are great in occasional shakes, milk is well, milk, it's awesome...FF cottage cheese consumption drills a large hole in our monthly food budget, I use it everywhere, awesome before bed or anytime for that matter with fruits like berries or in veggie lasagnas(whole wheat pasta of course!!lol) or my special tuna casserole (kids dont know its "healthy"! They love it!!).

Pre and post w/o, u might want to consider mixing ur shakes with water, for faster consumption...I have the following every single morning 1/2 hour before I train, in the blender: 0.75 cup water, 4 of raspberries, 1/3 cup dry non grinded oats and 2 scoops(40 g) strw. flav. protein powder...Usually, a shake with only water makes me puke, but with the oats and fruit, its freaking yummy. I have the exact same thing the instant i put down the weights...I bring all the ingredients in little containers and just add water.

Hey some great advice guys!!!!

I am going to buy a blender so I can get shaking!!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally Posted by KittyKat

Thank You Emma-Leigh!!!

Great advice again....if you started charging you would be a rich woman (I am persuming your female with the name Emma )

You are welcome!

... And yes, I am female!

I was wondering if you get chance one day if you could post what you eat.....Im being nosey and want to compare with other girls diets

My diet is pretty consistent (sometimes pathologically so! )... At the moment, on weekdays it is usually something like:

Pre workout (I workout at 6am, so I get a quick shake at ~5.30am):
yoghurt (natural, FF)
whey

Post workout: ~ 7.30am
skim milk
oats
whey

Meal 1: ~ 8am
Oatbran
Grain mix of kibbled scotch oats, barley, wheat, rye and flaxseeds
1% cottage cheese

Meal 2: ~11am
Oats
Apple
Egg whites
1% cottage cheese
2 x fish oil capsules

Meal 3: ~2pm
A whole grain (eg: barley) or legumes (eg: kidney beans)
Tuna
About 3 cups of salad (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, mushroom, herbs, baby spinach) Usually with a dressing of black pepper, juice (lemon or lime) and ACV, salt-reduced tamari or amino-acid spray
Apple
2 x fish oil capsules

Meal 4: ~5pm
Home-made slice (flaxmeal, protein powder, egg whites, brans)
1% cottage cheese
walnut butter (just like almond butter, but made from walnuts)
celergy sticks (usually about 3 large peices)

Meal 5: ~8pm
Salmon +/- some egg whites/whole egg
About 3 cups of vegetables (broccoli, zucchini, spinach, mushrooms, bok choi, brussel sprouts, chinese broccoli, celery)
+/- shirataki noodles (made from the root of a japanese yam - pure fibre)

Meal 6:~10pm
1% cottage cheese
walnut butter
2 x fish oil caps


On the weekends I can workout a little later so I have a solid meal pre workout (oats, oatbran, cottage cheese and protein powder) and will usually have fruit (berries, banana), yoghurt and whey PWO.

Yeah I have put the protein bars away and shall make an effort to eat proper food.....

Good stuff!

Finally...do you think post work out nutrition shakes are bad news then?

If they are pre-made - yes. Anything with a prepared carb source in it is usually not my idea of an optimal PWO shake. You want A LOT more from a PWO shake that just 'sugar' and 'protein'. You want to re-hydrate yourself, you want to restore electrolytes, you want to limit and prevent oxidative damage (via anti-oxidants, such as those in fruits), you want to restore glycogen and restore total body glucose levels (via replenishing muscle stores and liver stores), you want to stimulate growth factors and anabolism and you want to provide amino acids to restore the amino acid pools in your muscles and you want to prevent catabolism of muscle proteins (via whey +/- a tiny bit of casein).

And in my opinion natural food sources (fruits, skim dairy, higher GI foods) are much better at doing these.

Fantastic

Cheers for that......

Sounds good.

K Kat xxx

what is amino acid spray?