ddawg

Hi guys, I'm new to this site posting wise but I have been reading this forum for some time now. Just a little background I'm 19, male, 6 ft. tall and 166 pounds. Last year at this time I weighed 293 so I have come a long way. Now that I have lost all this weight, I would like to put on some muscle but also try and lose the last little fat I have left. I am not sure what my bf % is but I still have a little to loose. My goal is to gain muscle as well as lose some fat. I know this has been discussed and many say this is not possible, but I was wondering if this program would work. I read up about it on some website. Here is the program:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm

You basically just need to read the workout and diet section.
I was wondering if this would work.
Thank you so much in advance for any insight you can give me!

Todd_

yeah ddawg that is a solid foundation

youre going to have to fine tune it for yourself but its a good outline

ddawg

The only thing I am worried about is eating all those carbs and calories from the time of the workout till I go to bed. I know I will be limiting my carbs and calories 5 1/2 days out of the week but won't those extra calories and carbs on workout days just put on fat?

Emma-Leigh

Personally, I don't like the look of it (I don't like the look of the whole program)...

ddawg

Thanks for the replies guys.
Emma-Leigh, what type of program would you recommend. I just want to make sure I do everything right because I would really like to put on some muscle and loose some fat.

Emma-Leigh

Personally, I think that as you are young and you are pretty small (166 @ 6'), you should take advantage of your current hormonal status and aim to put on some good quality lean mass. As you add mass, if you do it sensibly, then the level of fat you have will not increase substantially and your BF% may even go down (you add more lean mass and you don't add as much fat mass and your ratio will change).

You don't need anything near a program that is so complex (or severe)... It is rediculous to micro-manage things to that degree at this stage.

I am not saying you have to go crazy on the food - but I would just eat a TINY bit above your maintainence calorie level for most days (just enough to stimulate anabolism) and then train hard. Add a moderate amount of cardio to help with nutrient partitioning etc and you will probably be suprised at the gains you can make.

So first - find out how much food you actually need. To do this, the easiest thing you can do is to weight yourself. Then eat a set amount for ~2 weeks and then weigh yourself again. If you stayed the same weight - perfect, you have your maintence. If not, you will need to slightly adjust calories accordingly.

So to gain some lean mass you eat just over maintainence - I would aim for about 5-10% more calories at first and see what happens over the course of 2-3 weeks. If you don't see any change, increase by the same amount again.

Be sensible and aim to eat a well balanced and healthy diet. Follow the basic diet guidelines - that means:

1. Complete protein in each meal, with roughly the same amount per meal. Aim to eat ~1.5g of protein per pound of lean mass that you want. So, say you ultimately want to be 180 pounds and 10% it would mean you would have 160 pounds of lean mass. So you want to eat ~240g of protein per day. Which is ~40g per meal (if you eat 6 meals).

Stick to proteins such as turkey, chicken, seafood, eggs/whites, game meats (bison, buffalo, ostrish, deer etc), lean red meats and 1% cottage cheese...


2. Aim to get some healthy fats in each meal (except your PWO shake). This will help fill you up between meals and help to stabilise your blood glucose and insulin levels. I would think that ~0.4g/pound desired lean mass would be a good start - so that would be ~65g going on the above figures.

Fats such as those in fish oils (6g/day in capsules), fatty fish, nuts/seeds (walnuts/linseeds especially so), olive oil and avocado are your best options.


3. Get enough high fibre, lower GI 'energy' carbohydrates - Distribute these sensibly as well - so focusing them when you are active and around your workouts...

Sources like legumes (beans, lentils etc), whole grains (oats, barley, rye, brown rice etc), fruits, sweet potato, yam and skim dairy are great options for starchy/sugar carbs.


4. Get enough fibre - LOTS of vegetables (the more the better), legumes, whole grains etc... Help keep you full and have heaps of health benefits. Throw in some brans/psyllium if you can not get enough.


5. LOTS of water



Simple.

ddawg

Wow, thanks a lot for the info emma. I think it would be much easier for me to follow the type of balanced diet that you talked about rather than the one I mentioned. I just bought a caliper so I am going to measure my body fat to see what it really is. I have one more question, what type of cardio should I do and when(workout or nonworkout days) and also what is the % split on the diet (carbs/fat/protien)? I promise this is the last question. Thanks again.

Emma-Leigh

I would probably do 3 days. What type - depends on how fit you are... But I wouldn't do anything 'constantly'. Your body will adapt. So switch it up. Do a mix of:
- Long, lower intensity sessions (45-60 minutes at 65-75% max heart rate)
- medium length, moderate intensity sessions (30-45 minutes at HR at 75-85% max),
- High intensity, short length (20-30 minutes at >80% max heart rate)
- Sprints or High intensity intervals (20 minutes of intervals, HR spiking to >85-90% during sprints)
- combination sessions eg: 15 minutes sprints followed with 20 minutes of moderate intensity...


If you are unfit then there is no point trying to do HIIT - you will not be able to hit the required intensity to make it worth your while.. So you would have to start with the lower intensity sessions.... but as your fitness increases you can incorporate some of the harder sessions in to keep challanging your body.

I would also try to do the cardio on the days you are not in the weights room.

I don't. Those % splits are stupid... What your body needs is different to what % calorie split it makes up - doing it as a % split of overall calories can lead you to be horribly deficient in something (or in far excess of your needs as well).

Stick to my suggestions and base it on your desired lean mass. That is:
1.5g per pound DESIRED lean mass
Something between 0.4 and 0.5g fats per desired lean mass

Then fill in the rest of your calorie requirements with carbohydrates.

eg: to take my example from before - 180 pounds and ~10% BF means 160 pounds LEAN mass and you were eating ~2600 cals to maintain... Which means you would want to eat ~2800 cals/day to start to add some mass.

Therefore you want:
1.5 x 160 pounds in grams protein = 240g protein (960 cals)
0.4 to 0.5 x 160 in fats = 65-80g fat (585-720 cals) - say 70g (650 cals)
Which leaves you ~300g carbs (1200 cals)

Which, if you must know, comes out at a ratio of: 43% carbs, 35% protein, 22% fats.

Arrhar!!

hmm...yea...ok

Ka-Boom!

ddawg

Ok, I just kind of constructed an outline of my diet and I obviously need a little help. I am shooting for around 2700 calories but as you will see I'm not quite there. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks. (cals,fat,carbs,prot.)
Meal 1--7:00 am
60g Oatmeal (230, 3.8, 40.2, 9.6)
1 Can Tuna (125, 1.25, 0, 32)
1 Scoop Whey (110, 1.5, 3, 23)
2 Fish Oil Caps (20, 2, 0, 0)
Totals (485, 8.55, 43.2, 65)

Meal 2--9:30 am
4 Egg Whites (66, 0, 1, 14)
1 Slice Fat Free Cheese (30, 0, 2, 5)
3 Cups Brocolli (75, 0, 12, 6)
1 Medium Apple (81, 0, 21, 1)
1.5 Tbs. Natty PB (158, 12, 4.5, 6)
Totals (410, 12, 41, 320)

Meal 3--1:00 Lunch/Pre-Workout
40g Oatmeal (154, 2.5, 27, 6.4)
1 Scoop Whey (110, 1.5, 3, 23)
Totals (264, 4, 30, 29)
Need some help here!

Meal 4--Post-Workout
5oz Sweet Potato (128, .3, 29, 2.8)
2 Scoops Whey (220, 3, 6, 46)
60g Oatmeal (230, 3.8, 40.2, 9.6)
Totals (578, 7.1, 75, 58).

Meal 5--7:00 pm
2 Salmon Fillets (220, 7, 2, 38)
1/2 Cup Brown Rice (170, 1.5, 34, 0)
3 Cups Brocolli (75, 0, 12, 6)
Totals (465, 8.5, 48, 44)

Meal 6--9:30 pm
60g Oatmeal (230, 3.8, 40, 10)
1 Tbs. Peanut Butter (105, 8, 3, 4)
2 Fish Oil Caps (20, 2 , 0, 0)
Totals (355, 14, 43, 16)

Grand Totals
2557 calories, 54g fat, 280g carbs, 244g protein
19%/43%/38%

So I definitely need a little help.
What else should I add to my diet. Some other foods I have around the house are beans(kidney, black, great northerns), mushrooms, green beans,blueberries, chicken,etc.

Anything I should buy?

crazy_enough

You could add lotsa meat in there, like in meals 3 and 4 perhaps. Whey is great, but getting your nutrients from food is even better!

Life is what you make of it, not what it makes you...TAKE CHARGE!

http://www.boners.com/content/791433.1.jpg

BulkMeUp

Congratulations!

As Emma said. since you are starting out, You dont really need to follow a strict regimin.

Your diet could use a bit of tweaking. here are some pointers that might help you : http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...9&postcount=14 (Critique Me)

I'm presently 6'/158 . Here is my diet, which might help give you some clues as well. : http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...6&postcount=70 (Mr.10%)

ddawg

What types of meat would you recommend....lean beef, turkey, chicken?

Emma-Leigh

You don't need that much protein. What about:
60g oats
1 scoop whey
0.5 cups blueberries
1 whole hard-boiled egg (or 2 whites + 1 tbs flax seed meal)
2 fish oil caps

3 cups broccoli! Good to see a man who likes his vegetables!
Why not have that tuna from breakfast here - something like:
1 can tuna
1 cup kidney beans
1 medium apple
2 (or 3 if you want) cups broccoli
0.5 tbs olive oil
2 fish oils

Olive oil would be better than overdosing on PB - you don't want too many omega-6 fats (lots in PB).

What about:
60g oats
0.5 med banana
1 scoop whey

Dump the Sweet potato - you don't need it PWO. Try:
60g oats
1 cup skim milk
0.5 banana
1 scoop whey

Great.

Dump the oatmeal here. Go for protein and your healthy fats +/- more vegetables if you want.

eg:
1 cup 1% cottage cheese
1 tbs PB
2 fish oils


But it looks great!