Thread: New Guy here, with questions..

Originally Posted by tannywild

DAY 1: Chest / Triceps
DAY 2: Rest
DAY 3: Shoulders / Biceps
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Legs / Back
Day 6: Rest
Day 7: (Back to day 1)

Help me out here, I need to get bigger.. I figure I'm not eating enough... I drink 1-2 gallons of water a day as well.. I must burn everything I eat off at work or something..

Again, any comments/assistance would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks for reading!

- Jared

You need to add up how many grams of protein, carbs and fats you are eating from your diet, but I can still tell yo re not eating enough. We could help you a lot more if you typed out what you accually do in your work out.

Chest:
Barbell Bench Press (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Incline barbell press (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
incline bench fly (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
cable crossovers (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Triceps:
Tricep Pushdowns (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Tricep extensions (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Biceps:
standing bicep curl (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
preacher curl (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
standing hammer curl (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Shoulders:
Dumbbell shoulder press (3 sets 5-8 reps)
dumbbell lat raise (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
dumbbell front raise (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
dumbbell shrugs (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Back:
Chinups (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Seated cable rows (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
lat pull downs (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
one-arm dumbell rows (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Legs:
Leg Extensions
Leg press
Squats
Lying leg curl
Standing leg curl
standing calf raises (all 3 sets, 5-8 reps)

That help at all? Edit at will! Thanks for the fast response

- Jared

One thing I'm worried about is consuming TOO MUCH protein... I dont mind eating a bit, but I just dont know what to fill up on if I cant have protein.. Hell, 1 protein bar just doesnt do it for me.. I wish I could eat 2, that'd be 40g of protein though, I know my body cant handle that.. or at least I think...

- Jared

Originally Posted by tannywild

One thing I'm worried about is consuming TOO MUCH protein... I dont mind eating a bit, but I just dont know what to fill up on if I cant have protein.. Hell, 1 protein bar just doesnt do it for me.. I wish I could eat 2, that'd be 40g of protein though, I know my body cant handle that.. or at least I think...

- Jared

Wow where did you hear that? you should eat around 50 grams per meal. Hell most of my meal have 65 grams each. The only problem with eating to much protein is it's a little hard on the kidneys, but if you drink at least a gallon of water a day its fine.

Originally Posted by tannywild

Chest:
Barbell Bench Press (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Incline barbell press (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
incline bench fly (1 sets, 10 reps)
You had to much volume. Switch out using barbells and dumbbells every week.
Triceps:
Tricep close grip weighted dips/ or skull crushers (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Tricep extensions (2 sets, 5-8 reps)
You didn't have any mass building exercises.
Biceps:
standing bicep curl (3 sets, 5-8 reps)
preacher curl (1 sets, 5-8 reps)
Do back before biceps so they will be pre fatiqued. Then you don't need near as much volume.
Shoulders:
Dumbbell shoulder press (4 sets 5-8 reps)
dumbbell lat raise (2 sets, 5-8 reps)
dumbbell shrugs (3 sets, 5-8 reps)

Back:
Deadlifts (4 sets 5-8 reps)
Bent over rows(3 sets, 5-8 reps)
Chin ups (2 sets, failure reps))
T bar or cable rows (2 sets, 5-8 reps)
Deadlifts are a great mass building compound movement. They also work the hamgstrings a lot. You can do them on leg day, but it's hard to squat and deadlift on the same day.
Legs:
Olympic squats 4 sets 5-8 reps
Leg press 3 sets 5-8 reps
Leg curls 3 sets 5-8 reps
standing calf raises (4 sets, 5-8 reps)

That help at all? Edit at will! Thanks for the fast response

- Jared

Comments in bold. Also, I would change the split to this, but it doesn't matter all that much.
DAY 1: Chest / Triceps
DAY 2: Rest
DAY 3: Back/ Biceps
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Legs / Shoulders
Day 6: Rest

Depending on the tempo (amount of time spent on the eccentric/bottom of the eccentric(I.E. on bench press it would be when the bar is touching your chest)/concentric) and the rest intervals you use, you should change the sets and reps accordingly.

Thanks alot for the info - any comments on what I should eat more of, or when? I'm really disciplined when it comes to eating, just need to know how/what to eat and when. Thanks...

- Jared

Originally Posted by tannywild

I'm pretty fit where it stands now, but I really need to gain some mass... I'm 6"1 and only 180.. I figure maybe I'll post my diet (which I follow very strictly, and have been for the past 3 months)

About your diet.... Let me guess - you like milk?

Seriously though - milk is GREAT and highly anabolic and it will help you grow - but 'man can not live on skim milk alone' - you need to combine it with a sensible diet!

Your protein levels look ok (rather unbalanced, but it seems ok) - but your fats are WAYYY too low and you could do with more carbs as well... If you knew your BF% I could give you an indication of what quantities you might need... But to give you a rough idea of how you could change your diet:

Breakfast:
1 Cup Oatmeal, Banana, 1 Scoop Whey, 8oz skim milk
MegaMen Multivitam

This is fine - add some fats here though. What about some linseed meal and some fish oil capsules?

Pre-workout:
met-rx big 100 protein bar, 1 tsp creatine w/ 8oz grapejuice..

Drop the protein bar. These are absolute crap. If you MUST eat them, don't eat them around your workout.

How soon before your workout is this meal? If it is less than 30 mins before you workout then just add a scoop whey to your grapejuice. If it is more than ~45-60 mins then adding some solid food would be more ideal (move the eggs from the next meal here... Adding something like oats would also be more ideal than just your grape juice...).

Post workout:
7 egg whites, 1 yolk, 2 cups white rice, 1 tsp L-glutamine w/ 8oz grapejuice

Drop the eggs (you certaily don't want yolk PWO) and replace it with 1 scoop whey. The white rice and grape juice is fine.

The glutamine... Well... I am not going to start... But take it if you want...

2 hours later:
Protein bar, 8oz milk, 1 tsp L-Glutamine w/ 8oz grapejuice

Drop the grapejuice and the protein bar (and the glutamine)... The milk is fine if you want it but you want a good solid meal here - something like Milk + sweet potato + chicken breast + vegetables + fish oils.

2 hours later:
2 chicken breast, salad (no dressing), 8oz milk

Have this meal a little later - 2 hrs is too soon (overkill).
You also don't need 2 whole chicken breasts here.
You also want to add some fats here.

So what about chicken breast + brown rice + apple + salad + olive oil (home made dressing).

2 hours later (before bed): 12oz milk, 1 scoop whey protein...

A little milk before bed is fine (esp when bulking) but the whey is not the best idea for pre-bed - It is too rapidly digested. You want to take the opportunity to eat a slowly digesting protein. So what about some milk, some 1% cottage cheese and some PB or walnuts?

Here is a diet i used for two months to gain abotu 10 pounds. Im about your size 6'3, 177.

Meal 1
Omlete - 1 yolk, 6 whites (172, 28, 5) + mushrooms/spinach
1 cup oats (310, 13, 5)
1 cup skim milk (86, 8, 0)
0.75 cups 1% CC (130, 21, 2)

Meal 2
1 cup oats (310, 13, 5)
1 scoop muscle milk(with water) (175,16,9)
1 banana (100, 0, 0)
1 cup skim milk (86, 8, 0)
2 fish oils (18, 0, 2)

Meal 3
1 cup of cooked brown rice (220,5,2)
1 cup of spinach(50,6,0)
Half of a chicken breast (150,26,6)
2 fish oil caps(20,0,2)

Meal 4
Other half of chicken breast(150,26,6)
1 cup cooked brown rice(220,5,2)
1 cup of spinach(50,6,0)
1 tbs olive oil(120,0,14)

Meal 5
1 cup of raw oats (310, 13, 5)
1 cup skim milk (86, 8, 0)
2 fish oils (18, 0, 2)
Half of chicken breast(150,26,6)

Meal 6
other half of chicken breast(150,26,6)
Can of mixed vegetables(80,3,1)
2 fish oil caps(20,0,2)

Meal 7
1 cup Cottage Cheese(160,26,2)
15 almonds(100,10,5)

Total Cal:3441
Total Protein:293
Total Fat:89

Great information here, I'm loving it. I've learned more here in 2 days then in 3 months of researching online hehe...

Emma, you seem really confident about everything, so here's a few questions..

Where's a good way to get "fish oils".. I have the pills, is there any other way to get 'em though? Whats so bad about Glutamine? I already wasted the money on it, so I'm going to finish using it hehe...

Not going to buy any more protein bars after what ya said hehe, I'll just use em as a snack at work. Because I barely have any time to eat at work.

I love eggs, and yes, I love milk. 2 of my favorite things... I'd eat up to 20 egg whites a day if I could, but I dont think I'd be gettin enough variety there....

Again, thanks a bunch for the information, really appreciated...

And also, I'm more or less just looking to tone up.. I really dont care how much I can lift, I just want to look good basically...

If that can give you any idea of my goals.

Originally Posted by tannywild

Where's a good way to get "fish oils".. I have the pills, is there any other way to get 'em though?

The pills are fine. The only other ways are via liquid (if you can stand downing a tsp of the stuff) and with fresh or canned fatty fish (salmon, sardines etc).

But 6-10g of fish oil capsules is fine.

Whats so bad about Glutamine? I already wasted the money on it, so I'm going to finish using it hehe...

Nothing bad per say - it is just a waste of money for 90% of the population.

Unless you are doing a completely stupid diet (or you are doing rediculous amounts of training) then, seeing you will be taking in a higher than average level of animal proteins it is likely you will be getting adequate glutamine for your needs (Dairy, eggs, seafood and meats are all high in glutamine... Seeds like sunflower seeds and nuts like almonds and peanuts are also not too bad in terms of glutamine).


Also - in terms of the 'supplement', most glutamine taken orally will be taken up in the lining of your intestines (intestinal mucosa) and converted to other things before it even reaches your blood. So in order to get any substantial levels into your body you need to take pretty large doses... [the effect is less so if you specifically take good doses of pure l-glutamine (>10g per serve), but up to 75% can still be removed.... (on a side note - this is one of the reasons why glutamine may be helpful for those with irritable bowel or inflammatory bowel issues...)].

Also - You turn over glutamine in your blood REALLY rapidly so if you want high levels in your body for any period of time then you have to take really high doses every few hours... Completely un-ecomomical.

Some people may disagree with me on this - but it is just my opinion... So the only time I suggest people really think about taking it is if they are on an extremely hypocalorific diet, if they are under immense stress in terms of your immunity or if you are doing seriously long/hard training....

Not going to buy any more protein bars after what ya said hehe, I'll just use em as a snack at work. Because I barely have any time to eat at work.

Have you thought about cooking your own bars, or using a home-made shake instead?

I love eggs, and yes, I love milk. 2 of my favorite things... I'd eat up to 20 egg whites a day if I could, but I dont think I'd be gettin enough variety there....

well... 20 whites would only give you 70g of protein - so it still leaves room for something else!

But yes, variety is good.

ps: 'Toning up' ??! Pfffttt... There is no such thing. Gettting 'toned' means squat in terms of improving how you look (Tone = the normal state of tension in a muscles at rest - so you have 'tone' now)... 'Toning' was a word that the female fitness industry invented to try to get women who where scared of "gaining muscle" to still use weights (even if they then went and distroyed weight training with all that pink dumbell "feel the burn" crap... arggg... Because don't we all know that simply looking at a barbell females will instantly make you HUGGEE right??!! ).

Sorry... side tracked... Back to my point. Definition is what you want and to get that you need to build muscle and lose fat. And to do this you need to do heavy weight training, have a good diet and throw in adequate cardio training... You can't get big without trying - so don't worry about that.

You're my hero, Emma.

So lift with heavy weights, eat more good fats, eat fast-acting protein pre-workout... Slow digesting protein post-workout. Cut the L-Crapamine, and eat a more balanced diet..

Again, so much knowledge. If you've got any more pointers for me, something that I could really pay attention to, I'm all for it. Recently someone recommended taking in 1-2 gallons of water a day, which I now do.. I'm in the bathroom about 40% of the day though, haha....

Any pointers are great! Thanks a ton!

- Jared

One last thing! (kidding, you know there will be more!)

Crab meat, imitation crab meat.. Is that acceptable? Or should I avoid it? Because I love it.. Haven't eaten it in awhile because I was unsure about it, but let me know if possible! THanks!

- Jared

Originally Posted by tannywild

So lift with heavy weights, eat more good fats, eat fast-acting protein pre-workout... Slow digesting protein post-workout. Cut the L-Crapamine, and eat a more balanced diet..

Nearly...
1. Lift heavy
2. Eat a well balanced diet that includes adequate healthy fats in addition to adequate protein, carbohydrates, lots of fibre and lots of vitamins and minerals
3. Eat protein pre-workout - fast acting if you are lifting <45 mins later (eg:whey), slow acting if you wait for >45 minutes later (eggs, fish). Best if taken with some carbohydrate (faster to absorb if close to workout, whole-foods if it is >45 minutes).
4. Eat a rapidly digesting protein after your workout (whey isolate is best) in combination with a relatively rapidly digested carbohydrate
5. And yes, cut the glutamine

Recently someone recommended taking in 1-2 gallons of water a day, which I now do.. I'm in the bathroom about 40% of the day though, haha....

LOL... Yeah. 2 gallons might be a little much, but ~4L is a good target for most people.

Originally Posted by tannywild

Crab meat, imitation crab meat.. Is that acceptable? Or should I avoid it? Because I love it..

LOL... You know that there is no actual crab meat in that stuff right?! It is usually something like white fish, potato starch, wheat starch, sugar, salt, 'crab flavourings'...

Real crab is great - but I would limit how much of the imitation stuff you chow down on...

Every response you give me raises another question, you're awesome.. lol...

Okay, so no more of that fake crab meat.. Most stuff that tastes great is to good to be true anyways, duh, I should've known that.

As for "fast digesting" carbs... Like what? Whole wheat cereal, wheat bread? Rice?

I dont mind taking in that much water, just curious if its gonna be harmful to me, drinkin so much! How did you get to become so knowledgable? You seem to know just about everything. I wish I knew as much as you, then I could be certain of what I'm eating, and be certain of my workout. I need to hire you to come to my house for one day and monitor my every movements to see if i'm doing it properly

im not an expert like emma, but i think i can answer you question. We want slow burning carbs like oatmeal, brown rice, and anything whole wheat. Fast burning carbs which are generally undesirable would be your white breads, pastas, potatoes, corn, etc etc. Fast burning carbs after a workout can be useful though because it will restore energy to your muscles fast. Also dont eat carbs after 6 or 7 pm if you are trying to lose weight on a cut or minimize fat gain on a bulk.

Originally Posted by tannywild

As for "fast digesting" carbs... Like what? Whole wheat cereal, wheat bread? Rice?

For PWO your grape juice is a perfect example of a faster digesting carb. Another examples would be some banana or another high glucose fruit (such as grapes... but things like apples or pears are too slow to digest).

Thinly chopped rolled oats are also ok (called "quick oats", not instant as these have added ingredients). White rice would be ok, as would white potato.

Skim dairy is a great source of a relatively rapidly digesting carb (don't be fooled by the glycaemic index - there are many factors that come into play!). Also, some people feel that, because of the casein protein in it, it will slow the digestion of their PWO shake too much - but it is not significant (generally the casein will settle out and the rest of the milk and whey will pass through into your small intestine - also, if you dilute it with some water it passes through more quickly). And oats, which many people include PWO, will slow digestion - and many people who don't drink milk will oat those . So it is all a little odd..

Milk also has many additional benefits (eg: it is insulinogenic, it is anti-catabolic, it has vitamins, minerals, water and protein in addition to the carbs)...

If you don't want it PWO then that is fine (I respect the choice of people not to have it) but I think it should certainly be considered as a pre-workout carb source.

I wouldn't do bread or cereal PWO - They are not your best choice in terms of micronutrients (they are void of many of the vitamins and minerals that other things will give you) water content (which natural foods will give you) and can sometimes have hidden icky stuff in them (high fructose corn syrup etc). If you are not concerned about these things (and you really just want the carb) then it comes down to more of a personal choice - I stay away from processed foods as much as possible (just call be obsessive)... But there are some people who do use cereal or bread PWO.

Other processed carb that people have PWO is dextrose powder (basically glucose) and maltodextrose powder (glucose polymer - which is just lots of glucose molecules stuck together). But this is when people are really concerned about spiking their insulin levels.

I dont mind taking in that much water, just curious if its gonna be harmful to me, drinkin so much!

Too much water is harmful as it disrupts the electrolytes in your blood and can cause all sorts of problems in your body... But you have to drink a lot.

I would still be a little careful not to overdo it (esp. if you are taking in other things like lots of herbal tea) because there have been a few deaths associated with people being told to 'drink lots of water'. So unless you are REALLY active and sweating a whole heap then ~1-1.5 gallons is usually fine.

I need to hire you to come to my house for one day and monitor my every movements to see if i'm doing it properly

LOL - well... If you are willing to pay.... Maybe a relocation is in order!

Originally Posted by patricio223

We want slow burning carbs like oatmeal, brown rice, and anything whole wheat. Fast burning carbs which are generally undesirable would be your white breads, pastas, potatoes, corn, etc etc. Fast burning carbs after a workout can be useful though because it will restore energy to your muscles fast.

Wellll.... Generally speaking.... yes.... But it is a broad generalisation..

For health reasons more than anything you generally want unprocessed foods above processed foods - they offer you much more in terms of water, minerals, vitamins other nutrients (eg: phytochemicals) and can also give you additional things like fibre, healthy fats etc etc. They are also usually higher on the satiety index (so they fill you up more) and they are often more thermogenic as well (so they 'burn energy' as you digest them). Both of which can be helpful when dieting. Being natural there is also less chance of running into additional 'extra' ingredients such as added high fructose corn syrup, trans fats or other things.

But in terms of your list of 'slow and fast burning carbs'...

Whole wheat does not necessarily mean it is a "slower burning carb". Whole wheat bread is not all that slow to digest and the GI is not all that low (it has a GI that is boarderline high ~70). Also, it has very little fibre or 'satiety' effects and can generally leave you hungry soon after (it is only marginally better than white bread). On the other hand, potato will have a very marked satiety effect (it is actually ranked better than porridge for satiety) and it will keep you full for a good period of time. There is nothing inheriantly wrong with potato - it just has a higher GI than something such as sweet potato.... But if it is combined in a meal with adequate fibre, protein and healthy fats then it is not a huge issue at the end of the day.

Corn is also not bad and it is not a 'rapidly digesting carb'. In terms of GI/GL it has a pretty low GI (~54), and the GL is low (9)... so it is better than many things people find 'acceptable' like sweet potato (which has a GI of ~61 and a moderate GL of 17)... It also has a reasonable amount of fibre, vitamin C, some of the B vitamins and some of the minerals as well... PLUS - many people don't like it because of the 'sugar' content - and it is actually not all that high in sugar either (100g of corn = 3g sugar.... and, interestingly enough, 100g of sweet potato has ~4g sugar... Makes you think right!?).

Sure - is corn a usual 'competition cutting' food? No. But competition cutting diets are exceptional circumstances and there is no reason not to include a perfectly acceptable grain like corn, if it is included in a healthy diet.

Also dont eat carbs after 6 or 7 pm if you are trying to lose weight on a cut or minimize fat gain on a bulk.

Bodybuilding myth no 12204335: "carbs late at night make you fat"
Reality: "excess calories in combination with inactivity will make you fat"

Carbs at night are fine.

Okay, figured I'd keep this on the same post.. But my friend is trying to get bigger now, and has asked for my help.

He's my height, just weighs 20lbs less. He's had high metabolism his whole life, the guy is a pencil. I basically told him my diet, and got him doing it as well, I just told him to consume about 2x as much as I do in calories. I had him calculate all that he eats in 1 week, and he was averaging about 5000 calories a day. He hasn't gained ANY weight. He works out with me, I have him lifting heavy weights, but nothing.

Whats the problem here? Whats the best way to get him big?

Originally Posted by tannywild

I had him calculate all that he eats in 1 week, and he was averaging about 5000 calories a day. He hasn't gained ANY weight..

So, he is 6'1"/160, eating 5000cals/day and hasnt gained? I dont think he is eating that many cals. He needs to sit down and carefully count his cals to see what he is doing. Dont just assume 'this' must be 'that many' cals ...etc.

Post his diet, meal by meal WITH all cals and macros for each meal AND totals.