Bulking w/ Slow Burners

w8lifter · 04-10-2002, 08:08 PM

All courtesy of Dr. Pain (Fat Cell)

I'm get a lot of questions on how to add LBM w/o BF. Bulking or cutting, I use slow burning carbohydrates. The basic concept is to consume fat and fiber to slow insulin flow and avoid fat storage. Then, rather than trying to oxidize fat as we do in cutting, we provide the body with enough slow burning carbs to fuel it's metabolism (in balance with fat calories), which in turn spares protein for muscle synthesis! GROW MORE MUSCLE, STORE LESS FAT!!

Men's Bulk

This is the program is for a 180# guy with a fast metabolism going to 195 in 5 weeks!

Supps:

Multi with meal one
10 grams of creatine a day
5 grams of glutamine before training/ 10 grams after

Oil mix equals 1/2 flax and 1/2 safflower
Oatmeal is always old fashion (slow cooking)

Meal #1
2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites
6 - 8 oz. 93% lean beef or chicken
½ - 3/4 cup oatmeal before cooking
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries

Meal #3
8 - 10 oz. chicken (before cooking)
6 - 8 oz. sweet potato or 1/2 – 1 cup cooked rice
2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.)

Meal #4
Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein Powder, 4-6 TBS whipping
cream, and 12-18-oz water
½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries)

Meal #5
8 - 10 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat
2 cups vegetables
6 oz potato
1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix)

Meal #6 (Non Training Days)
10 -oz chicken breast, 2 cups vegetables;
Or: 3 Scoops protein powder, 6 TBS whipping cream, 20-oz water

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato,
1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter

DRINK 6-8 QUARTS A DAY!

Women's Bulk

Take a few days and work into this, up calories gradually!

Supps: Multi with meal one, 5 grams glutamine before training, 5 grams after, and 5 grams of creatine a day after loading

NO CARDIO, NO THERMOS for 5 weeks!

Meal #1
4 oz chicken or turkey breast
4 egg whites, 1 yolk
1/2 cup (measured before cooking) oatmeal

Meal #2
Protein Drink: 12-oz water, 2 scoops Protein powder
3 TBS heavy cream or 1 tbs oil blend and 4 strawberries or 1/2 banana

Meal #3
6 oz chicken breast
2 cups salad
2 TBS Paul Newman’s Oil & Vinegar dressing
6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice

Meal #4
6 oz chicken breast
1 cup vegetables or

2 scoop protein powder, 12 oz watwr 3 tbl cream or 1 tbs oil blend, 1/2 banana or 4 frozen strawbwerries

Meal #5
6 oz lean beef or chicken
1-cup vegetables
2 tsp Flax Oil
6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice

Meal #6 except Sunday and Wednesday, shake like meals 2 and 4

Sunday and Wednesday have - a cup of oatmeal, 6-oz sweet potato, 4-oz banana, and 1-cup vegetables as a 6th meal.

Drink 1.5 gallons water daily

DP

p.s This would actually work as a cut for some above 150-160# who have a decent metabolism

Just a note on mini-cycles

The idea is for shorter bulks and cuts, ultimately leading to the same goal, more LBM! Whereas an Old School BB may bulk for 3-4 months of more depending on whether he is doing one or more contests a year! This usually results in 20-60 pounds being gained with a substantial amount of BF!

The BB then cuts for 12-16 weeks and ends up with a net gain of 10 pounds of LBM for 6-8 months work! (sometimes a year)

A mini cycle approach maintains a lower level of BF year round, requiring shorter diet cycles to sharpen up the physique!

Depending on the metabolism, a person might bulk for 3-5 weeks and gain 8-10 pounds, some BF but not much! He/she then cuts for 2-3 weeks or whatever it takes to lower that little bit of BF accummulation from the bulk, losing 3-5 pounds. The net result is a LBM gain of 3-5 pounds or whatever the goal may be!

Do that several times during the year, never allowing your BF to go too high, and you reach the same place, plus 10 or more pounds of LBM!

It is an individualistic thing! Slower metabolisms require longer cuts shorter bulks, and vice versa!

kuso · 04-10-2002, 11:03 PM

So you`re trying to tell me that by relying on JD and coke as my carb source ain`t gonna work....

Rob_NC · 04-11-2002, 07:28 AM

This brings up a few questions.

1. My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age. What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?

2. Can safflower or peanut oil be used as a substitute for whipping cream? If so, how much? Lack of refrigeration capacity where I work is a problem.

w8lifter · 04-11-2002, 04:58 PM

More info from Dr. Pain!

We had a thirteen day weigh-in after the start of this diet, and the man I placed on this, who has now started to add whole milk to his shakes, (went to a whole banana last week) gained 9 pounds from 177 to 186. His BF has not changed much, he still has some abs and is approx 9%

The woman, has gained 3 pounds from 136 to 139. recently she squatted 245, a new record for her!

These programs are clean, and green. Both our little bulkers have set numerous strength PR's in the last 10 days!

w8lifter · 04-11-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob_NC
This brings up a few questions.

1. My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age. What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?

This is a Dr. Pain question, butt in the meantime, you can read this for natural metabolism boosters! (Metabolism-boosting foods)

Quote:

2. Can safflower or peanut oil be used as a substitute for whipping cream? If so, how much? Lack of refrigeration capacity where I work is a problem.

Yes, fats are interchangeable (generally speaking of course). 1 tbsp of flax, olive, safflower, etc.....(~15 grams of fat) = 3 tbsp heavy whipping cream....(5 g fat each tbsp).

Interesting! (Oils & Fats!!!)

Dr. Pain · 04-11-2002, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob_NC
This brings up a few questions.

1. My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age. What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism?

Not usually a question that belongs on a bulking post, but this helps explain the beauty and flexibility of the progam!

First, programs are always designed for the indidvdiual, and there are always many ways (paths) to achieve goals!

So intial questions are usually :

Your stats, age, height, weight BF%, somatotype, genetics (parents)

Your goals
Training
Metabolism
Current meal plan and macronutrient totals
ETC

Next , and this partially answers your question, we rely on meal frequency and macronutrient content to control the rate of bulk, insulin surges, and minimize fat accummulation! We can speed up or compensate for a slow metabolism this way.

We actually do the same on a cut, we use frequency, portions and content.

If you care to answer thr questions, I can demonstrate.

DP

rebel · 09-01-2002, 08:54 AM

[quote]

Meal #6 (Training Days)
1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato,
1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter

should this meal be eaten post workout?

Dr. Pain · 09-01-2002, 09:52 AM

Can be, or as meal 6 before bed. Depends when you train.

You must have somewhat of a smokin metabolism to do this, also having followed the other meals strictly so that you are in a glycogen depleted state.

DP

Phobia · 09-02-2002, 07:06 PM

Wow W8, you know alot about cooking!
How do you remember it all!

w8lifter · 09-02-2002, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Phobia
Wow W8, you know alot about cooking!
How do you remember it all!

Thanks but, everything in this thread comes from my better half

Dr. Pain · 09-02-2002, 09:20 PM

Thank you w8!

DP

Leslie · 10-21-2002, 10:21 AM

W8~DP...............

For what BW is the woman's bulk diet for? How would I need to adjust this for the winter bulk?

Dr. Pain · 10-21-2002, 03:36 PM

Leslie, that was designed for a trainer named Paris.....some here from ABC have seen her pictures. She used it Pre-cut for an NPC BB show, went from 126 to 142 on it.

It should work fine for you (and w8), just control the carb-ups.

DP

Leslie · 10-21-2002, 04:53 PM

COol

Thanks DP!

Leslie · 10-21-2002, 06:04 PM

When does a "cheat meal" play in the bulk? I want to bulk this winter with one cheat meal per week, or I will go bonkers!

What do you recommend?

nikegurl · 10-21-2002, 06:10 PM

DP - when you say to "control the carb ups" does that just refer to portions of the twice weekly carb up at meal #6? Thanks!

w8lifter · 10-21-2002, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leslie2196
When does a "cheat meal" play in the bulk? I want to bulk this winter with one cheat meal per week, or I will go bonkers!

What do you recommend?

I recommend you w8 till we give you your final meal plan

...which includes a cheat meal

Leslie · 10-21-2002, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter

I recommend you w8 till we give you your final meal plan

...which includes a cheat meal

LOL, ok

you know me, always planning ahead LOL

Thx W8!

Dr. Pain · 10-21-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
DP - when you say to "control the carb ups" does that just refer to portions of the twice weekly carb up at meal #6? Thanks!

Because of the "other" slow burners that are now incliuded in the daily meal plan......a highly IR person has to watch "herself" and stay in control!

(only carb when needed)

DP

Freeman · 06-20-2003, 07:06 PM

Ok, I am thinking of trying thesem mini-bulks/cuts. I have had a hard time increasing strenth though. I've gained 30lbs since last summer, and some is muscle, cuz I can see it, but I also have noticed an unwanted increase in fat...I have stuck to a pretty good diet, hopefully these will work! I need to get stronger!!!

**P-funk** · 06-21-2003, 07:17 AM

yeah, it sefenitly does work.......I am bulking with slow burners right now....wll, actually I just started a mini cut. I had bulked for about 10weeks and gained some good size with a small, or I should say smaller, amount of fat increase than if I just ate whatever I wanted.

Freeman · 06-21-2003, 07:32 AM

Cool, yeah I've been bulking for basically ever hahaha! I was a hard gainer at first, but now I think I added too much fat, I hsould have done this sooner...oh well..

Are you doing cardio on your mini-cut? I'm taking some ripped fuel also...

**P-funk** · 06-21-2003, 06:31 PM

No, I don't do cardio.lol

I don't do ECA either. I just straight up cut.

Freeman · 06-21-2003, 06:37 PM

Yeah I hate cardio! I used to love running 2-3 miles every morning after waking up...but, since I've cut that out (almost a year now)..I dread thinking about starting cardio again..I know I probably should, to have a healthier heart at least. blarg!

prendergast1 · 07-16-2003, 09:36 AM

Hello, This is my first time on here im from London.

I'm trying to bulk-up but im not sure I'm doing the right things.

Meal 1, oatmeal, EAS simply protein, 1 apple and glutamaine, flax oil multi vits

Meal 2, oatmeal, EAS gain and flax

Meal 3, chicken breast, sweet potato green beans + flax

Meal 4, as above with EAS gain

Meal 5, EAS gain and 1 apple

Meal 6, chicken breast, sweet potato, green beans and yoghurt

Meal 7, met-rex, flax, glutamine and vit C

Can anyone tell me if this is ok for bulking up?

**Jodi** · 07-16-2003, 09:42 AM

It looks very good!

My only question would the how much per meal are you getting and what are your macros for the day. Also what are your stats?

prendergast1 · 07-16-2003, 09:45 AM

Sorry, forgot to say i'm 5.9ft and weigh 179 pounds

prendergast1 · 07-16-2003, 09:52 AM

Sorry this may sound silly but what are macros

09-01-2002, 08:54 AM	#7
rebel Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: counce, tn Posts: 63	Re: Bulking w/ Slow Burners [quote] Meal #6 (Training Days) 1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato, 1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter should this meal be eaten post workout?

09-02-2002, 09:20 PM	#11
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	Thank you w8! DP Last edited by Dr. Pain : 10-21-2002 at 03:32 PM.

10-21-2002, 10:21 AM	#12
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	W8~DP............... For what BW is the woman's bulk diet for? How would I need to adjust this for the winter bulk?
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

10-21-2002, 04:53 PM	#14
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	COol Thanks DP!
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

10-21-2002, 06:04 PM	#15
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	When does a "cheat meal" play in the bulk? I want to bulk this winter with one cheat meal per week, or I will go bonkers! What do you recommend?
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

04-10-2002, 08:08 PM	#1
w8lifter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Around..... Posts: 14,964	Bulking w/ Slow Burners All courtesy of Dr. Pain (Fat Cell) I'm get a lot of questions on how to add LBM w/o BF. Bulking or cutting, I use slow burning carbohydrates. The basic concept is to consume fat and fiber to slow insulin flow and avoid fat storage. Then, rather than trying to oxidize fat as we do in cutting, we provide the body with enough slow burning carbs to fuel it's metabolism (in balance with fat calories), which in turn spares protein for muscle synthesis! GROW MORE MUSCLE, STORE LESS FAT!! Men's Bulk This is the program is for a 180# guy with a fast metabolism going to 195 in 5 weeks! Supps: Multi with meal one 10 grams of creatine a day 5 grams of glutamine before training/ 10 grams after Oil mix equals 1/2 flax and 1/2 safflower Oatmeal is always old fashion (slow cooking) Meal #1 2 whole eggs + 4 egg whites 6 - 8 oz. 93% lean beef or chicken ½ - 3/4 cup oatmeal before cooking 1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix) Meal #2 Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein, 4-6 TBS whipping cream, and 12-18-oz water ½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries Meal #3 8 - 10 oz. chicken (before cooking) 6 - 8 oz. sweet potato or 1/2 – 1 cup cooked rice 2 cups vegetables (broccoli, etc.) Meal #4 Protein Drink: 2-3 Scoops Protein Powder, 4-6 TBS whipping cream, and 12-18-oz water ½ banana or 4 frozen strawberries) Meal #5 8 - 10 oz. sirloin steak or lean meat 2 cups vegetables 6 oz potato 1 TBS Flax Oil (or oil mix) Meal #6 (Non Training Days) 10 -oz chicken breast, 2 cups vegetables; Or: 3 Scoops protein powder, 6 TBS whipping cream, 20-oz water Meal #6 (Training Days) 1.5 cups cooked rice, 10 oz sweet potato, 1 banana, 1 cup vegetables, 1 TBS Butter or Peanut Butter DRINK 6-8 QUARTS A DAY! Women's Bulk Take a few days and work into this, up calories gradually! Supps: Multi with meal one, 5 grams glutamine before training, 5 grams after, and 5 grams of creatine a day after loading NO CARDIO, NO THERMOS for 5 weeks! Meal #1 4 oz chicken or turkey breast 4 egg whites, 1 yolk 1/2 cup (measured before cooking) oatmeal Meal #2 Protein Drink: 12-oz water, 2 scoops Protein powder 3 TBS heavy cream or 1 tbs oil blend and 4 strawberries or 1/2 banana Meal #3 6 oz chicken breast 2 cups salad 2 TBS Paul Newman’s Oil & Vinegar dressing 6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice Meal #4 6 oz chicken breast 1 cup vegetables or 2 scoop protein powder, 12 oz watwr 3 tbl cream or 1 tbs oil blend, 1/2 banana or 4 frozen strawbwerries Meal #5 6 oz lean beef or chicken 1-cup vegetables 2 tsp Flax Oil 6 oz sweet potato or 3/4 cup of rice Meal #6 except Sunday and Wednesday, shake like meals 2 and 4 Sunday and Wednesday have - a cup of oatmeal, 6-oz sweet potato, 4-oz banana, and 1-cup vegetables as a 6th meal. Drink 1.5 gallons water daily DP p.s This would actually work as a cut for some above 150-160# who have a decent metabolism Just a note on mini-cycles The idea is for shorter bulks and cuts, ultimately leading to the same goal, more LBM! Whereas an Old School BB may bulk for 3-4 months of more depending on whether he is doing one or more contests a year! This usually results in 20-60 pounds being gained with a substantial amount of BF! The BB then cuts for 12-16 weeks and ends up with a net gain of 10 pounds of LBM for 6-8 months work! (sometimes a year) A mini cycle approach maintains a lower level of BF year round, requiring shorter diet cycles to sharpen up the physique! Depending on the metabolism, a person might bulk for 3-5 weeks and gain 8-10 pounds, some BF but not much! He/she then cuts for 2-3 weeks or whatever it takes to lower that little bit of BF accummulation from the bulk, losing 3-5 pounds. The net result is a LBM gain of 3-5 pounds or whatever the goal may be! Do that several times during the year, never allowing your BF to go too high, and you reach the same place, plus 10 or more pounds of LBM! It is an individualistic thing! Slower metabolisms require longer cuts shorter bulks, and vice versa! Last edited by w8lifter : 07-10-2002 at 08:32 AM.

04-10-2002, 11:03 PM	#2
kuso Um......get rooted! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aka ( o Y o ) Posts: 15,033 Photos: 15	So you`re trying to tell me that by relying on JD and coke as my carb source ain`t gonna work....

04-11-2002, 07:28 AM	#3
Rob_NC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,179	This brings up a few questions. 1. My metabolism has slowed considerably in the last few years due to a more sedentary job and age. What should I change in the diet to compensate for a slower metabolism? 2. Can safflower or peanut oil be used as a substitute for whipping cream? If so, how much? Lack of refrigeration capacity where I work is a problem.
	Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

04-11-2002, 04:58 PM	#4
w8lifter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Around..... Posts: 14,964	More info from Dr. Pain! We had a thirteen day weigh-in after the start of this diet, and the man I placed on this, who has now started to add whole milk to his shakes, (went to a whole banana last week) gained 9 pounds from 177 to 186. His BF has not changed much, he still has some abs and is approx 9% The woman, has gained 3 pounds from 136 to 139. recently she squatted 245, a new record for her! These programs are clean, and green. Both our little bulkers have set numerous strength PR's in the last 10 days!

09-01-2002, 09:52 AM	#8
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	Can be, or as meal 6 before bed. Depends when you train. You must have somewhat of a smokin metabolism to do this, also having followed the other meals strictly so that you are in a glycogen depleted state. DP

09-02-2002, 07:06 PM	#9
Phobia Gentle Smack Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada, Ontario Posts: 10	Wow W8, you know alot about cooking! How do you remember it all!

10-21-2002, 03:36 PM	#13
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	Leslie, that was designed for a trainer named Paris.....some here from ABC have seen her pictures. She used it Pre-cut for an NPC BB show, went from 126 to 142 on it. It should work fine for you (and w8), just control the carb-ups. DP

10-21-2002, 06:10 PM	#16
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	DP - when you say to "control the carb ups" does that just refer to portions of the twice weekly carb up at meal #6? Thanks!
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

06-20-2003, 07:06 PM	#20
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Ok, I am thinking of trying thesem mini-bulks/cuts. I have had a hard time increasing strenth though. I've gained 30lbs since last summer, and some is muscle, cuz I can see it, but I also have noticed an unwanted increase in fat...I have stuck to a pretty good diet, hopefully these will work! I need to get stronger!!!
	www.kingsburymusic.net

06-21-2003, 07:17 AM	#21
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,425	yeah, it sefenitly does work.......I am bulking with slow burners right now....wll, actually I just started a mini cut. I had bulked for about 10weeks and gained some good size with a small, or I should say smaller, amount of fat increase than if I just ate whatever I wanted.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-21-2003, 07:32 AM	#22
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Cool, yeah I've been bulking for basically ever hahaha! I was a hard gainer at first, but now I think I added too much fat, I hsould have done this sooner...oh well.. Are you doing cardio on your mini-cut? I'm taking some ripped fuel also...
	www.kingsburymusic.net

06-21-2003, 06:31 PM	#23
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,425	No, I don't do cardio.lol I don't do ECA either. I just straight up cut.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-21-2003, 06:37 PM	#24
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Yeah I hate cardio! I used to love running 2-3 miles every morning after waking up...but, since I've cut that out (almost a year now)..I dread thinking about starting cardio again..I know I probably should, to have a healthier heart at least. blarg!
	www.kingsburymusic.net

07-16-2003, 09:36 AM	#25
prendergast1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: England Posts: 8	Hello, This is my first time on here im from London. I'm trying to bulk-up but im not sure I'm doing the right things. Meal 1, oatmeal, EAS simply protein, 1 apple and glutamaine, flax oil multi vits Meal 2, oatmeal, EAS gain and flax Meal 3, chicken breast, sweet potato green beans + flax Meal 4, as above with EAS gain Meal 5, EAS gain and 1 apple Meal 6, chicken breast, sweet potato, green beans and yoghurt Meal 7, met-rex, flax, glutamine and vit C Can anyone tell me if this is ok for bulking up?

07-16-2003, 09:42 AM	#26
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,265 Photos: 1	It looks very good! My only question would the how much per meal are you getting and what are your macros for the day. Also what are your stats?
	Essence EFA

07-16-2003, 09:45 AM	#27
prendergast1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: England Posts: 8	Sorry, forgot to say i'm 5.9ft and weigh 179 pounds

07-16-2003, 09:52 AM	#28
prendergast1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: England Posts: 8	Sorry this may sound silly but what are macros