Keys to Fat Loss

Dr. Pain · 04-30-2002, 05:15 PM

First- know your body!! find out what works for you, this can take a considerable amount of experimentation and time. That's why other people's plans sort of work generically (for the masses) Tweak for yourself!

Second- what worked yesterday, doesn't always work today- or say the next time you cut- or after a few weeks and the body has adapted to a program. So have a Plan A, B. C...,the same way you change up your W/O to recruit more fiber- you alter your cutting, maintaining or bulking program to keep you body from adapting and slowing progress! This is why mini-cycles 3-4 weeks work so well, especially to stay lean (i.e. 3 week bulk- 2 week cut -repeat, or cut, then tweak, then tweak harder etc)

Now the part you have been waiting for: Use those clean carbs to fuel your metabolism at your (I repeat your) level to bulk, add in enough protein for positive nitrogen balance, and then fat and fiber to slow insulin and digestion down so that you don't go thermo when bulking (this is also why we use clean-slow burners). If your carbs are not high enough, your body does hepatic gluconeogenisis (makes glucose not aminos) with your protein, that's also why high levels of protein give you a little edge on muscle building if you are carb deficient.

There is a difference between lean and ripped. The secret here is to turn your body into a FAT OXIDIZER. This requires a short transitionary period that is kind of uncomfortable. But after a few days of adjustment, performance can even improve. When cutting, your body prefers to burn glycogen (glucose) and protein (muscle) for fuel. It does not want to tap into your fat stores because it thinks you are starving. As BB's we try to circumvent this by using meal frequency and small 200-500 calories adjustments, however it is more critical to make macronutrient changes. You have to change the body's fuel preference away from carbs and protein and towards fat. How, limit carbs- w/o carbs the body must chose between fat and muscle. We use anticatabolics to preserve LBM at all costs, so if there is less glycogen, and muscle is spared, then what becomes the preferred energy source - FAT!!! This requires eliminating ALL sugars- even from supps- and even post W/O! It also means raising your fat intake in order to teach the body that this is the new fuel source- tell it to GET USE TO IT! So now, even though you are eating more fat, you still want to maintain a level slightly under the body's energy requirement- this is when you turn to your FAT STORES- the new preferential fuel souce! Where do the CLEAN carbs play into this? Well, every so often you need to replace some glycogen in the liver and muscles, this prevents ketosis and ketoacidosis which can cause LBM loss.

How much? It varies with the individual and the rapidity (severity) of the cut! Here's my current (remember this changes) levels:
Maintenance (who wants to maintain?)
330 P 100 C 70 F
Bulk 420 P 120 C 110 F
CUT 400 P 60 C 90 F
Tweak 350 P 30 C 70 F

This is flexible and I make small adjustments
weekly and program changes every 3-4 weeks!

We have gone over bulking and cutting supps before but here is a new twist. We all work very hard for our gains, therefore our first job is to preserve thoses LBM gains at all costs. Each pound we preserve can burn 30-50 more calories, potentially fat calories.

SO, PLEASE EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY THE LADIES, STOP BEING SO CONCERNED ABOUT BODY WEIGHT - BE CONCERNED ABOUT BODY COMPOSITION. A firmer toner and leaner(ladies) or ripped shredded (men and lady BB's) body depends on BF% levels not poundage!

To preserve LBM we all know we use glutamine. What preserves glutamine in the body? Aminos! They are vital for protein synthesis and repair.

You can get aminos from increased protein intake and or supplement with high quality aminos at mealtime and or during the W/O (3-5 grams at meals or 15-30 during W/O). BCAA's are even more specialized as they convince the body to spare glycogen (tells the body that muscle has already broken down-so shift energy sources) and burn fat. A recent study showed a decreased amount of Visceral Abdominal Fat (VAT) (belly fat) in subjects with higher BCAA intake. (use 10-15 grams 10 minutes pre W/O)

CLA is still a fresh topic. It blocks fat storage (the lipoprotein lipase enzyme) and keeps fat from returning post cut. (3 grams a day)

Recently I also believe in high quality liver tabs(not Universal) I can quote rat swimming studies but can't explain the mechinisms in humans. The iron and B-12 seems to enhance the appetite and metabolism. More red blood cells greatly enhance oxygen transport, facilitating endurance, growth, and recovery (4-6 grams with each meal).

Lastly, a word about thermogenics. While I firmly believe in thermogenics, especially their ability to target brown adipose tissue, I've done enough of these to be at negative body fat levels. Currently, I just use them for the amps on leg or shoulder day. While they do enhance your metabolism, (even a one degree increase in body temperature will result in burning 7 percent more calories) after your period of 110% metabolism, the body tends to compensate with a period of 90% metabolism. The net effect is not all that great in some people. For the hardgainer, I (just me) beleive that they are detrimental, not allowing the maximum nutrition from food and supps to reach the muscle (remember glucose conversion from fat and protein to fuel the metabolism- gluconeogenesis). Stated another way, increase the bodies speed- you need more and more fuel to to maintain, this makes it harder to gain!

There are others T2, triacol, chromium, gugglesterones. EFA'S and there is a lot of crap too!

So no real secrets- just persistance and consistancy!

Dr. Pain

p.s. sorry I didn't include fiberous veggies in the clean carb list- eat a lot of these!

DP

nikegurl · 04-30-2002, 06:04 PM

good stuff here.

i think a good part of the work is figuring out what works for you (as you said). i'm working on that.

now - i know when you gave numbers they were yours and they are changeable but one thing jumped out at me.
for a cut you have down 90 grams fat....

my numbers have been looking sort of like this (on the total depletion days. i carb up every 4th)

190 g protein
26 g carb (veggie sources)
85-90 g fat

so - makes me think i may be going overboard w/my fat intake?
i thought we wanted to shoot for about 15 g per meal. that would bring me to 90. on target for now or too high?

thanks!

Dr. Pain · 04-30-2002, 06:43 PM

There is a transition, a cut usually has 3-4 tweaks! I may taper down from 140 to 120 to 110, it's all depending on
the other macros (Protein and Carbs), your doing fine, you said you had results already, so relax K?

ALso this was written long ago, I have learned that more fat, especially in insulin resistant (IR) individuals, works better!

DP

nikegurl · 04-30-2002, 06:50 PM

i'm sucha spazz. but i do it well at least (the spazzing)

thanks a zillion times.

w8lifter · 04-30-2002, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
i'm sucha spazz. but i do it well at least (the spazzing)

thanks a zillion times.

...you are a spazz....but you're a funny spazz w/ a good attitude

**Prince** · 04-30-2002, 08:29 PM

okay, Dr. Pain this post was almost a article!!!!

in fact with some polishing it would make a good article!

w8lifter · 04-30-2002, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
okay, Dr. Pain this post was almost a article!!!!

in fact with some polishing it would make a good article!

So...are you saying if I did some fancy polishing I could hand this in as an article for this month

**Prince** · 04-30-2002, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by w8lifter
So...are you saying if I did some fancy polishing I could hand this in as an article for this month

Yes!

w8lifter · 04-30-2002, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince

Yes!

....easiest article I never wrote

ponyboy · 04-30-2002, 09:21 PM

I've read from many sources the body requires anywhere from 50 to 100 grams of carbs daily (varies according to source) to maintain most normal functions, including brain activity...any comments? Just noticed that nikegurl was way below that and so was DP during his tweak phase...anyone else have xperience taking carb intake that low, because I know I don't.

Dr. Pain · 04-30-2002, 09:27 PM

You read incorrect information! There is a famous study by a doctor who ate zero carbs for a year to prove his collegues wrong, and there are whole populations, that comsume little if any carbohydrates!

W8, if that is the case you can hand in several articles, Prince just made it too easy!

DP

DP

w8lifter · 04-30-2002, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Pain

W8, if that is the case you can hand in several articles, Prince just made it too easy!

DP

Shhh! He'll make me work twice as hard

cytrix · 05-01-2002, 12:13 AM

SHOULD YOU TAKE BCAA IN CAPSULE FORM THROUGHOUT THE DAY INBETWEEN MEALS IN ADDITION TO THE PROTEIN-FAT MEALS? OR JUST BEFORE WORKING OUT? WHAT ABOUT AFTER WORKING OUT? HOW MUCH? BTW GREAT POST (AS ALWAYS

)

nikegurl · 05-01-2002, 10:53 AM

hey ponyboy - i did a contest when i was in college. i did the carb deplete and load thing as instructed by the trainer at my gym and basically wrecked myself. by that i mean that i looked WAY better before the deplete and load and way better a week after the show when i had cheated tons. i also know that after a few days of the depletion he instructed me on i was beyond crabby. i couldn't THINK. i truly couldn't function.

none of that is happening now. i feel totally fine. my energy level is good. my brain isn't fuzzy. nothing like that! so for sure you can go on very few carbs and feel and function just fine. that's been my experience at least.

Dr. Pain · 05-01-2002, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cytrix
SHOULD YOU TAKE BCAA IN CAPSULE FORM THROUGHOUT THE DAY INBETWEEN MEALS IN ADDITION TO THE PROTEIN-FAT MEALS? OR JUST BEFORE WORKING OUT? WHAT ABOUT AFTER WORKING OUT? HOW MUCH? BTW GREAT POST (AS ALWAYS

)

I would not recommend BCAA's unless you are EXTREMEly goal oriented! Charles Poliquin recently raised his suggestion from .17 gram per Kg of BW to .35 grams, taken either ten minutes before a W/O or dispersed in intervals thoughout! Mucho $$$$!

DP

04-30-2002, 05:15 PM	#1
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	Keys to Fat Loss First- know your body!! find out what works for you, this can take a considerable amount of experimentation and time. That's why other people's plans sort of work generically (for the masses) Tweak for yourself! Second- what worked yesterday, doesn't always work today- or say the next time you cut- or after a few weeks and the body has adapted to a program. So have a Plan A, B. C...,the same way you change up your W/O to recruit more fiber- you alter your cutting, maintaining or bulking program to keep you body from adapting and slowing progress! This is why mini-cycles 3-4 weeks work so well, especially to stay lean (i.e. 3 week bulk- 2 week cut -repeat, or cut, then tweak, then tweak harder etc) Now the part you have been waiting for: Use those clean carbs to fuel your metabolism at your (I repeat your) level to bulk, add in enough protein for positive nitrogen balance, and then fat and fiber to slow insulin and digestion down so that you don't go thermo when bulking (this is also why we use clean-slow burners). If your carbs are not high enough, your body does hepatic gluconeogenisis (makes glucose not aminos) with your protein, that's also why high levels of protein give you a little edge on muscle building if you are carb deficient. There is a difference between lean and ripped. The secret here is to turn your body into a FAT OXIDIZER. This requires a short transitionary period that is kind of uncomfortable. But after a few days of adjustment, performance can even improve. When cutting, your body prefers to burn glycogen (glucose) and protein (muscle) for fuel. It does not want to tap into your fat stores because it thinks you are starving. As BB's we try to circumvent this by using meal frequency and small 200-500 calories adjustments, however it is more critical to make macronutrient changes. You have to change the body's fuel preference away from carbs and protein and towards fat. How, limit carbs- w/o carbs the body must chose between fat and muscle. We use anticatabolics to preserve LBM at all costs, so if there is less glycogen, and muscle is spared, then what becomes the preferred energy source - FAT!!! This requires eliminating ALL sugars- even from supps- and even post W/O! It also means raising your fat intake in order to teach the body that this is the new fuel source- tell it to GET USE TO IT! So now, even though you are eating more fat, you still want to maintain a level slightly under the body's energy requirement- this is when you turn to your FAT STORES- the new preferential fuel souce! Where do the CLEAN carbs play into this? Well, every so often you need to replace some glycogen in the liver and muscles, this prevents ketosis and ketoacidosis which can cause LBM loss. How much? It varies with the individual and the rapidity (severity) of the cut! Here's my current (remember this changes) levels: Maintenance (who wants to maintain?) 330 P 100 C 70 F Bulk 420 P 120 C 110 F CUT 400 P 60 C 90 F Tweak 350 P 30 C 70 F This is flexible and I make small adjustments weekly and program changes every 3-4 weeks! We have gone over bulking and cutting supps before but here is a new twist. We all work very hard for our gains, therefore our first job is to preserve thoses LBM gains at all costs. Each pound we preserve can burn 30-50 more calories, potentially fat calories. SO, PLEASE EVERYONE, ESPECIALLY THE LADIES, STOP BEING SO CONCERNED ABOUT BODY WEIGHT - BE CONCERNED ABOUT BODY COMPOSITION. A firmer toner and leaner(ladies) or ripped shredded (men and lady BB's) body depends on BF% levels not poundage! To preserve LBM we all know we use glutamine. What preserves glutamine in the body? Aminos! They are vital for protein synthesis and repair. You can get aminos from increased protein intake and or supplement with high quality aminos at mealtime and or during the W/O (3-5 grams at meals or 15-30 during W/O). BCAA's are even more specialized as they convince the body to spare glycogen (tells the body that muscle has already broken down-so shift energy sources) and burn fat. A recent study showed a decreased amount of Visceral Abdominal Fat (VAT) (belly fat) in subjects with higher BCAA intake. (use 10-15 grams 10 minutes pre W/O) CLA is still a fresh topic. It blocks fat storage (the lipoprotein lipase enzyme) and keeps fat from returning post cut. (3 grams a day) Recently I also believe in high quality liver tabs(not Universal) I can quote rat swimming studies but can't explain the mechinisms in humans. The iron and B-12 seems to enhance the appetite and metabolism. More red blood cells greatly enhance oxygen transport, facilitating endurance, growth, and recovery (4-6 grams with each meal). Lastly, a word about thermogenics. While I firmly believe in thermogenics, especially their ability to target brown adipose tissue, I've done enough of these to be at negative body fat levels. Currently, I just use them for the amps on leg or shoulder day. While they do enhance your metabolism, (even a one degree increase in body temperature will result in burning 7 percent more calories) after your period of 110% metabolism, the body tends to compensate with a period of 90% metabolism. The net effect is not all that great in some people. For the hardgainer, I (just me) beleive that they are detrimental, not allowing the maximum nutrition from food and supps to reach the muscle (remember glucose conversion from fat and protein to fuel the metabolism- gluconeogenesis). Stated another way, increase the bodies speed- you need more and more fuel to to maintain, this makes it harder to gain! There are others T2, triacol, chromium, gugglesterones. EFA'S and there is a lot of crap too! So no real secrets- just persistance and consistancy! Dr. Pain p.s. sorry I didn't include fiberous veggies in the clean carb list- eat a lot of these! DP

04-30-2002, 06:04 PM	#2
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,641	good stuff here. i think a good part of the work is figuring out what works for you (as you said). i'm working on that. now - i know when you gave numbers they were yours and they are changeable but one thing jumped out at me. for a cut you have down 90 grams fat.... my numbers have been looking sort of like this (on the total depletion days. i carb up every 4th) 190 g protein 26 g carb (veggie sources) 85-90 g fat so - makes me think i may be going overboard w/my fat intake? i thought we wanted to shoot for about 15 g per meal. that would bring me to 90. on target for now or too high? thanks! If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

04-30-2002, 06:50 PM	#4
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,641	i'm sucha spazz. but i do it well at least (the spazzing) thanks a zillion times. If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

04-30-2002, 08:29 PM	#6
Prince IronMagLabs Owner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 37,397 Photos: 356	okay, Dr. Pain this post was almost a article!!!! in fact with some polishing it would make a good article! BOARD SPONSORS: MassNutrition.com - Discount Supplement Superstore IronMagLabs.com - Bodybuilding Nutrition AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders & Supplements CEMProducts.com - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclesProd.com - Steroids, Bodybuilding & Training Blog Maximizer.com - Maximum Strength for Maximum Performance MikeGetsRipped.com - The Original 'Get Ripped' Blog ProteinRoutine.com - Experiments in Healthy Living Follow on Twitter Join Facebook Group Befriend on Myspace

05-01-2002, 12:13 AM	#13
cytrix Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: chicago, il , usa Posts: 287	SHOULD YOU TAKE BCAA IN CAPSULE FORM THROUGHOUT THE DAY INBETWEEN MEALS IN ADDITION TO THE PROTEIN-FAT MEALS? OR JUST BEFORE WORKING OUT? WHAT ABOUT AFTER WORKING OUT? HOW MUCH? BTW GREAT POST (AS ALWAYS)

04-30-2002, 06:43 PM	#3
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	There is a transition, a cut usually has 3-4 tweaks! I may taper down from 140 to 120 to 110, it's all depending on the other macros (Protein and Carbs), your doing fine, you said you had results already, so relax K? ALso this was written long ago, I have learned that more fat, especially in insulin resistant (IR) individuals, works better! DP

04-30-2002, 09:21 PM	#10
ponyboy Training Trainer Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Running around somewhere Posts: 2,608 Photos: 1	I've read from many sources the body requires anywhere from 50 to 100 grams of carbs daily (varies according to source) to maintain most normal functions, including brain activity...any comments? Just noticed that nikegurl was way below that and so was DP during his tweak phase...anyone else have xperience taking carb intake that low, because I know I don't.

04-30-2002, 09:27 PM	#11
Dr. Pain Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Get the Duct Tape...I'm Ripped Again! Posts: 11,239	You read incorrect information! There is a famous study by a doctor who ate zero carbs for a year to prove his collegues wrong, and there are whole populations, that comsume little if any carbohydrates! W8, if that is the case you can hand in several articles, Prince just made it too easy! DP DP

05-01-2002, 10:53 AM	#14
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,641	hey ponyboy - i did a contest when i was in college. i did the carb deplete and load thing as instructed by the trainer at my gym and basically wrecked myself. by that i mean that i looked WAY better before the deplete and load and way better a week after the show when i had cheated tons. i also know that after a few days of the depletion he instructed me on i was beyond crabby. i couldn't THINK. i truly couldn't function. none of that is happening now. i feel totally fine. my energy level is good. my brain isn't fuzzy. nothing like that! so for sure you can go on very few carbs and feel and function just fine. that's been my experience at least. If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

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