Gain weight while lose fat?

Josh · 05-02-2002, 07:39 AM

Hi all,

I am new to this forum. I would like to ask, is there any way to gain weight (muscle mass) while losing fat (or at least maintaining fat level) at the same time?

As background info, I am 33, height about 175 cm, weight about 150 lbs, fat level about 27.5% (calculated with caliper measured on 9 sites). I've been working out probably for 2 years. As a thin person, my goal has always been to gain weight, but not simply fat instead in form of muscle mass. Unfortunately, as you can see, even though I'm thin, my fat level is surprisingly high (assuming I calculate it correctly). That's why I am looking for a way to keep gaining mass while lowering the fat level at the same time.

Anybody can help?

Thanks. -- Josh

wheete · 05-02-2002, 08:20 AM

The answer is yes.
You can be anabolic and catabolic at the same time, just not at full throttle at both directions. Now I am not sure if that is the best way to approach it for you though, because it will go slow in both directions. I would recommend you to go on a healthy diet and start weight training and gaining mass. Cut out the junk food, sugars, replace with a high protein diet and healthy food. Start eating more often, but smaller portions per meal.Calculate your BMR(base metabolic rate), put yourself about 500+ calories over your daily calorie output and you will start gaining mass. It is way easier to loose weight at a later time if you have alot of muscles. I am not sure if you calculated your fat% correctly, it sounds very high for you. Either way, you can not stress the importance of a good diet enough, both for weight gain and weight loss, its about 60%, exercise 20%, sleep 20%

Josh · 05-02-2002, 10:16 PM

Thanks Wheete for you reply. Follow up questions:
1. How to gain mass and lose fat at the same time? Ie, what kind of food composition? What kind of training?
2. How to calculate my BMR?
3. How to check or measure fat level more accurately?
--Josh

w8lifter · 05-03-2002, 05:13 AM

Welcome to the site Josh! Good response Weete!

Here is a link to a thread by Dr. Pain!

Bulking with slow burners (Bulking w/ Slow Burners)

Josh · 05-03-2002, 09:56 AM

Thanks w8lifter for the link. I've read it once but I must admit it is rather complicated for me, due to my lack of knowledge and understanding on diet, etc, etc. I will read it again soon. In the mean time, if there is other suggestion or links, please kindly advise. Thx again. -- Josh

**Prince** · 05-03-2002, 10:01 AM

Yes, you can.

Josh · 05-03-2002, 10:22 AM

Prince, thx, but how? -- Josh

w8lifter · 05-03-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Josh
Thanks Wheete for you reply. Follow up questions:
1. How to gain mass and lose fat at the same time? Ie, what kind of food composition? What kind of training?

Ok, adding on to the link I gave you.....popular/traditional methods for bulking would be to a) eat everything in sight until you reach the size you want...not recommended as you will gain shitloads of fat along w/ your muscle; b) eat a fairly clean diet usually consisting of a 30/40/30 p/c/f breakdown, utilizing simple sugars to spike your insulin at optimal times of the day...such as Meal 1 and post-workout...very effective for gaining as the insulin spike will shuttle nutrients into the muscles...however, depending on your metabolism, you'll still gain some fat since insulin is a storage hormone; c) bulking w/ slowburners...this option utilizes protein/fats & enough slow-burning carbs to fuel your metabolism and stimulate growth...why it doesn't add much bodyfat is because it doesn't utilize the popular post workout insulin spike...the whole basis of the diet is to control and maintain low levels of insulin secretion, using complex, low GI, slow-burning carbs.

2. How to calculate my BMR?

I believe there is a BMR calculator on the main site, however, if you've been maintaining your weight on what you're eating now, the best way to find out how many calories you need to gain is to log your food intake for a week (or at least 3 days) and take the average...and add 250-500 calories to that figure (depending on metabolism). At it's most basic level, gaining & losing weight comes down to calories in versus calories out...you want to gain weight you need to eat more than you burn. Then of course what you gain...fat or muscle depends on what you're eating (not just how much) & whther you're actually working to gain muscle (going to the gym!)

3. How to check or measure fat level more accurately?

It's best to go to a reputable gym and get calipered by an experienced trainer for this
--Josh

Josh · 05-03-2002, 08:21 PM

W8lifter, thx for your reply.

1. I guess you are suggesting that the best way to gain mass and lose fat at the same time is by using slow burning carbs, which I understand not simply as complex carbs but as carbs with low GI. Am I correct?

2. You mentioned 30/40/30 p/c/f for (b) method, but no composition is mentioned for the recommended (c) method. Does this mean the recommended composition is the same, just make sure that the carbs are slow burning carbs?

3. You did not seem to restrict fat consumption for method (c), in fact if I'm not mistaken from reading several articles in this forum I get the impression that eating fat is very important for this method to succeed. On the other hand, I also recall some articles or books on diet which say that fat consumed is the easiest thing to get stored as body fat, much faster and easier than converting and storing carbs and proteins into body fat, thus in order to avoid fat storage the easiest way is to cut down on fat consumption. All these information seems confusingly contradictory to me. Could you please clarify?

Thanks. -- Josh

w8lifter · 05-03-2002, 09:21 PM

1. I guess you are suggesting that the best way to gain mass and lose fat at the same time is by using slow burning carbs, which I understand not simply as complex carbs but as carbs with low GI. Am I correct?

Yes...and add fibre to the list as well. I just finished compiling an article of Dr. Pain's for the main site, it's here if you want to read it, it's got more information for you...bulk or cut, the principles are the same! There's a good list of the slow-burning carbs that you should include in your diet.

2. You mentioned 30/40/30 p/c/f for (b) method, but no composition is mentioned for the recommended (c) method. Does this mean the recommended composition is the same, just make sure that the carbs are slow burning carbs?

Well the reason I didn't give a macro breakdown for that is because how many carbs you eat is based really on your metabolism...some people can take only ~100g and some can take 200 or more. Obviously you want to get at least 1 gram of protein per lb of bw...I say at least cause that'd be the bare minimum...but you'll likely do better w/ 1.5-1.8. Fats are used w/ each meal for energy and to maintain level insulin secretions...generally 10-20 grams, and then there's the slowburning carbs....if you can get away w/ more carbs, have them, if not, you'll have to adjust protein/fat levels to ensure adequate calorie intake....this is where you have to know your body...you'll have to experiment a bit to get the right numbers, logging your food intake and body composition is a good idea!

3. You did not seem to restrict fat consumption for method (c), in fact if I'm not mistaken from reading several articles in this forum I get the impression that eating fat is very important for this method to succeed. On the other hand, I also recall some articles or books on diet which say that fat consumed is the easiest thing to get stored as body fat, much faster and easier than converting and storing carbs and proteins into body fat, thus in order to avoid fat storage the easiest way is to cut down on fat consumption. All these information seems confusingly contradictory to me. Could you please clarify?

This is where someone else is going to have to step in and explain things better than I could. I could attempt, but I'd rather leave it for DP or TCD

Lightman009 · 05-06-2002, 01:20 PM

As long as your staying away from fatty foods and eating lots of protein, and assuming your training properly, it is definitly possible.

wheete · 05-06-2002, 02:46 PM

Not sure what else to add here but with eating healthy and lift heavy is bascially the key to loose fat and gain muscle(look at my prior post in this thread).

No.1 tip is to eat very little carbs or no carbs before you go to bed. Otherwise the body will say: Hey I have all this energy here and the lazy guy is sleeping, I better store this for later and turn it into fat.
No.2 Eat alot of protein, go and invest in some whey protein powder. It helps alot and makes it very easy to get the protein in you.
I try to eat the majority of my carbs in the morning, it sets the metabolic rate for the day. Also the ONLY time I eat sugars is right before I go to exercise. I have some chocolate bars and it gives me a sugar rush and a energy boost. The reason for doing this is because if I have too little carbs my muscles wont have enough power to conduct a good exercise and without a good exercise no mucles. The actual weight loss is done outside the gym, at home and when you sleep. The same goes for weight gain.

05-02-2002, 07:39 AM	#1
Josh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indonesia Posts: 337	Gain weight while lose fat? Hi all, I am new to this forum. I would like to ask, is there any way to gain weight (muscle mass) while losing fat (or at least maintaining fat level) at the same time? As background info, I am 33, height about 175 cm, weight about 150 lbs, fat level about 27.5% (calculated with caliper measured on 9 sites). I've been working out probably for 2 years. As a thin person, my goal has always been to gain weight, but not simply fat instead in form of muscle mass. Unfortunately, as you can see, even though I'm thin, my fat level is surprisingly high (assuming I calculate it correctly). That's why I am looking for a way to keep gaining mass while lowering the fat level at the same time. Anybody can help? Thanks. -- Josh

05-03-2002, 10:01 AM	#6
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,520 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	Yes, you can.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

05-06-2002, 01:20 PM	#11
Lightman009 UCSB Student Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 300	As long as your staying away from fatty foods and eating lots of protein, and assuming your training properly, it is definitly possible.
	Just Shut Up and LIFT.

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05-02-2002, 08:20 AM	#2
wheete Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 23	The answer is yes. You can be anabolic and catabolic at the same time, just not at full throttle at both directions. Now I am not sure if that is the best way to approach it for you though, because it will go slow in both directions. I would recommend you to go on a healthy diet and start weight training and gaining mass. Cut out the junk food, sugars, replace with a high protein diet and healthy food. Start eating more often, but smaller portions per meal.Calculate your BMR(base metabolic rate), put yourself about 500+ calories over your daily calorie output and you will start gaining mass. It is way easier to loose weight at a later time if you have alot of muscles. I am not sure if you calculated your fat% correctly, it sounds very high for you. Either way, you can not stress the importance of a good diet enough, both for weight gain and weight loss, its about 60%, exercise 20%, sleep 20%

05-02-2002, 10:16 PM	#3
Josh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indonesia Posts: 337	Thanks Wheete for you reply. Follow up questions: 1. How to gain mass and lose fat at the same time? Ie, what kind of food composition? What kind of training? 2. How to calculate my BMR? 3. How to check or measure fat level more accurately? --Josh

05-03-2002, 05:13 AM	#4
w8lifter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Around..... Posts: 14,964	Welcome to the site Josh! Good response Weete! Here is a link to a thread by Dr. Pain! Bulking with slow burners (Bulking w/ Slow Burners)

05-03-2002, 09:56 AM	#5
Josh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indonesia Posts: 337	Thanks w8lifter for the link. I've read it once but I must admit it is rather complicated for me, due to my lack of knowledge and understanding on diet, etc, etc. I will read it again soon. In the mean time, if there is other suggestion or links, please kindly advise. Thx again. -- Josh

05-03-2002, 10:22 AM	#7
Josh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indonesia Posts: 337	Prince, thx, but how? -- Josh

05-03-2002, 08:21 PM	#9
Josh Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Indonesia Posts: 337	W8lifter, thx for your reply. 1. I guess you are suggesting that the best way to gain mass and lose fat at the same time is by using slow burning carbs, which I understand not simply as complex carbs but as carbs with low GI. Am I correct? 2. You mentioned 30/40/30 p/c/f for (b) method, but no composition is mentioned for the recommended (c) method. Does this mean the recommended composition is the same, just make sure that the carbs are slow burning carbs? 3. You did not seem to restrict fat consumption for method (c), in fact if I'm not mistaken from reading several articles in this forum I get the impression that eating fat is very important for this method to succeed. On the other hand, I also recall some articles or books on diet which say that fat consumed is the easiest thing to get stored as body fat, much faster and easier than converting and storing carbs and proteins into body fat, thus in order to avoid fat storage the easiest way is to cut down on fat consumption. All these information seems confusingly contradictory to me. Could you please clarify? Thanks. -- Josh

05-03-2002, 09:21 PM	#10
w8lifter Join Date: May 2001 Location: Around..... Posts: 14,964	1. I guess you are suggesting that the best way to gain mass and lose fat at the same time is by using slow burning carbs, which I understand not simply as complex carbs but as carbs with low GI. Am I correct? Yes...and add fibre to the list as well. I just finished compiling an article of Dr. Pain's for the main site, it's here if you want to read it, it's got more information for you...bulk or cut, the principles are the same! There's a good list of the slow-burning carbs that you should include in your diet. 2. You mentioned 30/40/30 p/c/f for (b) method, but no composition is mentioned for the recommended (c) method. Does this mean the recommended composition is the same, just make sure that the carbs are slow burning carbs? Well the reason I didn't give a macro breakdown for that is because how many carbs you eat is based really on your metabolism...some people can take only ~100g and some can take 200 or more. Obviously you want to get at least 1 gram of protein per lb of bw...I say at least cause that'd be the bare minimum...but you'll likely do better w/ 1.5-1.8. Fats are used w/ each meal for energy and to maintain level insulin secretions...generally 10-20 grams, and then there's the slowburning carbs....if you can get away w/ more carbs, have them, if not, you'll have to adjust protein/fat levels to ensure adequate calorie intake....this is where you have to know your body...you'll have to experiment a bit to get the right numbers, logging your food intake and body composition is a good idea! 3. You did not seem to restrict fat consumption for method (c), in fact if I'm not mistaken from reading several articles in this forum I get the impression that eating fat is very important for this method to succeed. On the other hand, I also recall some articles or books on diet which say that fat consumed is the easiest thing to get stored as body fat, much faster and easier than converting and storing carbs and proteins into body fat, thus in order to avoid fat storage the easiest way is to cut down on fat consumption. All these information seems confusingly contradictory to me. Could you please clarify? This is where someone else is going to have to step in and explain things better than I could. I could attempt, but I'd rather leave it for DP or TCD

05-06-2002, 02:46 PM	#12
wheete Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 23	Not sure what else to add here but with eating healthy and lift heavy is bascially the key to loose fat and gain muscle(look at my prior post in this thread). No.1 tip is to eat very little carbs or no carbs before you go to bed. Otherwise the body will say: Hey I have all this energy here and the lazy guy is sleeping, I better store this for later and turn it into fat. No.2 Eat alot of protein, go and invest in some whey protein powder. It helps alot and makes it very easy to get the protein in you. I try to eat the majority of my carbs in the morning, it sets the metabolic rate for the day. Also the ONLY time I eat sugars is right before I go to exercise. I have some chocolate bars and it gives me a sugar rush and a energy boost. The reason for doing this is because if I have too little carbs my muscles wont have enough power to conduct a good exercise and without a good exercise no mucles. The actual weight loss is done outside the gym, at home and when you sleep. The same goes for weight gain.