Should You Spike Your Insuline Post-Workout?

911=InsideJob · 08-30-2006, 01:17 AM

One article I've read said that you definetly should eat lots of starches after a hard workout, and another which says you shouldn't spike your insuline after a workout because it decreases testoserone. (both from credible soucres). So what do you guys think is better?

Yanick · 08-30-2006, 01:36 AM

i don't believe hearing that testosterone is somehow negatively effected by spiking insulin. i'd like to see the source on that one.

anyway, even if it is, the degree to which this occurs is probably minimal and it is all counterbalanced by the anabolic nature of an insulin spike, increased glycogen/protein synthesis in the muscle, decreased cortisol levels.

jonner · 08-30-2006, 03:01 AM

would a high carb protein shake take care of the carbs you need after a workout?

Valias · 08-30-2006, 03:55 AM

don't think it effects testosterone even slightly, it may effect growth hormone secretion but as others have said it's way outweighed by the anabolic effects and transport effects of insulin.

Gordo · 08-30-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911=InsideJob

One article I've read said that you definetly should eat lots of starches after a hard workout, and another which says you shouldn't spike your insuline after a workout because it decreases testoserone. (both from credible soucres). So what do you guys think is better?

can you cite your credible source for both articles? Post a link etc...

Are you sure you're not confusing test decreases with cortisol increases?

**IainDaniel** · 08-30-2006, 07:33 AM

Yeah please post your sources.... you always seem to have good ones.

As for high GI carbs the choice is yours. If you like the results you achieve with them, then why not do it. If you don't then stick with something like oats.

JMO

blueboy75 · 08-30-2006, 08:25 AM

I have just stopped spiking my PW shake with dextrose after 12 months of doing it. I found it a waste of time and now that I am using oats instead actually find it much better.

Empty calories using dextrose IMO.

**calalily1972** · 08-30-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueboy75

I have just stopped spiking my PW shake with dextrose after 12 months of doing it. I found it a waste of time and now that I am using oats instead actually find it much better.

Empty calories using dextrose IMO.

I've been saying this for years but nobody listens.

**IainDaniel** · 08-30-2006, 12:41 PM

I care Jodi. I care.

**calalily1972** · 08-30-2006, 12:45 PM

BulkMeUp · 08-30-2006, 12:57 PM

uuhh.. ok this is where i get a bit confused.

For pwo, it is said to have some 'fast' carbs. I agree dex has nothing to offer in terms of nutrition but oats are not considered 'fast'.

My PWO currently consists of:
Dextrose
Oats
Skim Milk
Protein powder
CEE

Wherein i get 50% carbs from dex and the rest from the oats+milk. Macros are .5g/lbm for carbs and .3g/lbm for portein.

If thats not a good combo, what would be one?

Gordo · 08-30-2006, 02:09 PM

Oats are medium GI'ish. You can make 'em faster digesting by grinding them in a coffee grinder and turning them to powder (oat flour).

White rice or rice cakes would work pretty good. You could make a rice pudding that would be perfect PWO....it's been posted here before:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...2&postcount=22 (sweet potatoes again)

**IainDaniel** · 08-30-2006, 02:17 PM

Maybe Trouble could talk about dextrose. I know she mentioned somethings in Cowpimps Journal.

Yanick · 08-30-2006, 02:22 PM

truth be told i think people overblow this whole issue. throughout my experience i have never really noticed a big difference either way between dex or oats in my post w/o shake.

i'm sure it will make a difference for those heavily cutting for a show or those who are juicing or bulking really hard trying to gain mass as fast as possible (or ecto's aka hardgainers w/e) but for the majority of us who have other stuff going on in our lives and look for more moderate results either way will work.

hell i remember reading studies a while ago saying that milk (i think it was whole), by itself, is enough to jumpstart glycogen synthesis post w/o.

BulkMeUp · 08-30-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

Oats are medium GI'ish. You can make 'em faster digesting by grinding them in a coffee grinder and turning them to powder (oat flour).

I do grind them. I cant imagine drinking globs of oats after a set while trying to catch my breath. Good way to choke on the gym floor

Besides i dont think they get very much more faster digesting because they are ground as the carb and fibre content is the same as the whole flakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordo

White rice or rice cakes would work pretty good. You could make a rice pudding that would be perfect PWO....it's been posted here before:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...2&postcount=22 (sweet potatoes again)

I did see the rice cakes option. But i prefer a shake as it is easier.

BulkMeUp · 08-30-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Maybe Trouble could talk about dextrose. I know she mentioned somethings in Cowpimps Journal.

I did see that. She suggested sipping the shake during the wo, which is what i've started doing.

BulkMeUp · 08-30-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

truth be told i think people overblow this whole issue. .

It is the quest for the perfect pwo shake, if there is such a thing

Yanick · 08-30-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

Besides i dont think they get very much more faster digesting because they are ground as the carb and fibre content is the same as the whole flakes.

the GI is actually higher when you grind them. making anything physically smaller and increasing surface area will automatically increase how fast it is absorbed, metabolized, digested.

P.S. in response to your other post about the perfect PWO shake. i doubt there is such a thing, as every individual is different. and to take it a step beyond that, each individual may require different strategies at different times of his/her development.

BulkMeUp · 08-30-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

the GI is actually higher when you grind them. making anything physically smaller and increasing surface area will automatically increase how fast it is absorbed, metabolized, digested.

I agree it would make it faster if it was ground to a fine powder in a mill. But i use a food processor at home and while it is ground, it is not really fine like flour. It is a bit grainy. But i guess there must be a small increase in GI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

P.S. in response to your other post about the perfect PWO shake. i doubt there is such a thing, as every individual is different. and to take it a step beyond that, each individual may require different strategies at different times of his/her development.

Agreed!

911=InsideJob · 08-30-2006, 05:04 PM

This is from maxmuscle.com

Quote:

While protein builds muscles, it takes carbohydrates in the form of sugars to raise insulin levels needed for repair and pure calories for the huge energy expenditures. For an active person trying to put on mass, there are two essentials. First is a minimum of 1.2 grams of protein per pound of muscular body-weight per day. It’s best to divide this over 5-6 meals. Also,

within 20 minutes of finishing your workout, take a meal high in carbohydrates (70 or more, including some fast-burning simple sugars) and moderate in protein (at least 25 grams).

This is from an article about testosterone:

Quote:

Excess intake of carbohydrates especially those that raise blood sugar rapidly create chronically elevated levels of the hormone insulin and cortisol. These two hormones oppose the action of testosterone and diminish its production

911=InsideJob · 08-30-2006, 05:04 PM

Here's the entire maxmuslce article, its good.
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?f...=body_building

**P-funk** · 08-30-2006, 05:07 PM

that article offers no references....why should anyone believe it.

911=InsideJob · 08-30-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

that article offers no references....why should anyone believe it.

Which?

**P-funk** · 08-30-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911=InsideJob

Which?

the max muscle article. Unless I missed them?

Anyway, here is a thread I started 3 years ago on the subject.

911=InsideJob · 08-30-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

the max muscle article. Unless I missed them?

Anyway, here is a thread I started 3 years ago on the subject.

Nice thread. I'll post the other article about boosting testosterone levels naturally in the training forum.

blueboy75 · 08-30-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jodi

I've been saying this for years but nobody listens.

Jodi, I actually changed after reading your posts.

**P-funk** · 08-30-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911=InsideJob

Nice thread. I'll post the other article about boosting testosterone levels naturally in the training forum.

I wont read a word of that shit until you cite it and with references....there is to much myth and garbage in this industry. I want real facts. I am not interested in what someone "thinks" happens.

**calalily1972** · 08-30-2006, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueboy75

Jodi, I actually changed after reading your posts.

I'm pretty sure you will prefer it. A good PWO shake, IMO, whey, oats, fruit and a little ff plain yogurt

08-30-2006, 01:17 AM	#1
911=InsideJob Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 661	Should You Spike Your Insuline Post-Workout? One article I've read said that you definetly should eat lots of starches after a hard workout, and another which says you shouldn't spike your insuline after a workout because it decreases testoserone. (both from credible soucres). So what do you guys think is better? Good Day

08-30-2006, 01:36 AM	#2
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	i don't believe hearing that testosterone is somehow negatively effected by spiking insulin. i'd like to see the source on that one. anyway, even if it is, the degree to which this occurs is probably minimal and it is all counterbalanced by the anabolic nature of an insulin spike, increased glycogen/protein synthesis in the muscle, decreased cortisol levels. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

08-30-2006, 07:33 AM	#6
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17,548	Yeah please post your sources.... you always seem to have good ones. As for high GI carbs the choice is yours. If you like the results you achieve with them, then why not do it. If you don't then stick with something like oats. JMO Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

08-30-2006, 12:41 PM	#9
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17,548	I care Jodi. I care. Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

08-30-2006, 02:17 PM	#13
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17,548	Maybe Trouble could talk about dextrose. I know she mentioned somethings in Cowpimps Journal. Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

08-30-2006, 03:01 AM	#3
jonner Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 33	would a high carb protein shake take care of the carbs you need after a workout?

08-30-2006, 03:55 AM	#4
Valias Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brisbane Posts: 278 Photos: 5	don't think it effects testosterone even slightly, it may effect growth hormone secretion but as others have said it's way outweighed by the anabolic effects and transport effects of insulin.

08-30-2006, 08:25 AM	#7
blueboy75 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 307	I have just stopped spiking my PW shake with dextrose after 12 months of doing it. I found it a waste of time and now that I am using oats instead actually find it much better. Empty calories using dextrose IMO.

08-30-2006, 12:45 PM	#10
calalily1972 Moderator Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,438 Photos: 1

08-30-2006, 12:57 PM	#11
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,636	uuhh.. ok this is where i get a bit confused. For pwo, it is said to have some 'fast' carbs. I agree dex has nothing to offer in terms of nutrition but oats are not considered 'fast'. My PWO currently consists of: Dextrose Oats Skim Milk Protein powder CEE Wherein i get 50% carbs from dex and the rest from the oats+milk. Macros are .5g/lbm for carbs and .3g/lbm for portein. If thats not a good combo, what would be one?

08-30-2006, 02:09 PM	#12
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,076 Photos: 8	Oats are medium GI'ish. You can make 'em faster digesting by grinding them in a coffee grinder and turning them to powder (oat flour). White rice or rice cakes would work pretty good. You could make a rice pudding that would be perfect PWO....it's been posted here before: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...2&postcount=22 (sweet potatoes again)

08-30-2006, 02:22 PM	#14
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	truth be told i think people overblow this whole issue. throughout my experience i have never really noticed a big difference either way between dex or oats in my post w/o shake. i'm sure it will make a difference for those heavily cutting for a show or those who are juicing or bulking really hard trying to gain mass as fast as possible (or ecto's aka hardgainers w/e) but for the majority of us who have other stuff going on in our lives and look for more moderate results either way will work. hell i remember reading studies a while ago saying that milk (i think it was whole), by itself, is enough to jumpstart glycogen synthesis post w/o. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

08-30-2006, 05:04 PM	#21
911=InsideJob Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 661	Here's the entire maxmuslce article, its good. http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?f...=body_building Good Day

08-30-2006, 05:07 PM	#22
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,701	that article offers no references....why should anyone believe it. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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