Fat Kid Bulking!

bigbb · 09-29-2006, 11:14 AM

Hey guys, I need help, well a critique of my bulking diet. Right now I'm sitting at a 'skinny fat' stage, around 18% BF and 180 lbs. I'm on 5X5 training so hopefully I can finally build a foundation to later cut down to in the winter. I am trying to take it slow and clean on my bulk.....

Meal 1: Breakfast/PreWO
-1 scoop whey
-1.25 cup oats
-1 cup milk

Meal 2: PWO
-60 g dextrose
-30 g whey
-serving of CEE (which i dont think i repsond to)

Meal 3:
-~6 oz. chicken
-1 baked potatoe
-big serving of veggies (i'm at college so my cafeteria usually has butter all over the veggies-but I eat them anyways)
-3 cups milk

Meal 4:
-1 serving whey
-2 cups milk
-2 oz. Peanuts

Meal 5:
-6 Oz. chicken/ can of tuna
-serving of veggies
-3-4 cups of milk
-4 tbsp. natty pb

Meal 6:
-1 cup cottage cheese
-3 tbsp natty pb
-1 cup milk

Total: 3629
Fat: 107 962 27%
Sat: 20 180 5%
Poly: 32 288 8%
Mono: 45 409 11%
Carbs: 338 1242 35%
Fiber: 27 0 0%
Protein: 340 1361 38%

-I know my diet needs work. It is very unbalanced(calorie meal-to-meal wise) as well which I could use some help on. Keep in mind im in a college dorm, and get 2 meals at the cafeteria everyday, so protein shakes are very cheap and convenient for me. Some days I get up to 4000, so i try to hover b/w 3500-4000 cals as best as I can.
I do no cardio, which I may implement soon for health reasons. I know many of you will tell me to cut down to 10%, but i dont wwant to cut down to a skinny toothpick w/ no muscle mass. PLus I've been 'overweight' my whole life, so another 6 months wont kill me. Anything else to help would be appreciated!

juggernaut · 10-04-2006, 03:01 PM

i think leaning out is more important than going on a clean bulk. You'll still have that soft doughy look only with more fat if you do your original plan.
Start out by leaning out and then do a slow bulk of clean carbs.

assassin · 10-04-2006, 03:27 PM

i'd suggest that you cut down to 10-12% before you start clean bulking...

juggernaut · 10-04-2006, 04:07 PM

Tough Old Man · 10-04-2006, 04:40 PM

18% bidyfat now and 10-11 cups of milk will lead to 30% bodyfat...Come on get real and read Jodi's sticky's and learn something

juggernaut · 10-04-2006, 05:04 PM

he's right. How you doing PT?

bigbb · 10-04-2006, 08:55 PM

I geuss i'm being a little stubborn with all the milk, but I cant help to drink it! It's cheap, and I have a dispenser in my cafeteria.
Not positive on my bodyfat, but id say 16-18 could be accurate. Following this diet I have gained 6 lbs. in 2 months, with strength gains accomodating nicely.
I'm still on the fence whether to cut or continue on my path. I will most likely continue this diet until December-ish and finally get to 10%. I am not focused on my physique, just getting more weight on the bar (I know it may be unhealthy to be at my current BF level). Thanks for everyone's comments. By the way, I don't know what 'PT' is so if you could inform me I'd appreciate it.

Double D · 10-04-2006, 08:58 PM

If your bf is around 16-18 your not unhealthy. Maybe a little chubby, but not unhealthy. If all you are worried about is your weight on the bar, then be sure you are doing as powerlifting routine and dont focus on bodybuilding routines because theres really no reason to.

juggernaut · 10-05-2006, 03:46 AM

thats not entirely true; when the numbers go up, the muscle fibers are being made to adapt to the last weight he handled-the more weight, the more the fiber has to overcome next time he trains that bodypart-the bigger and better fibers win over. Its very easy to encorporate the two: Look at the power/rep range/shock routines in the stickies section. Or look up max-ot on google.
Now, go ahead and make the mistake of going on a bulk and you will regret it. Trust all of us, dont bulk.

**IainDaniel** · 10-05-2006, 03:49 AM

How about just cleaning up your diet. Are you new to training and eating proper?

If so you could make some significant changes just by making healthier choice.

TrojanMan60563 · 10-05-2006, 07:28 AM

I don't think the milk is a problem....I did something very similar when I was in the Navy. The food was really bad and I didn't have access to protein powder very often....so I would drink like 5 cups of milk at each meal probably from a very similar dispenser. So anyways I don't think you should stop doing that if you can't afford to eat more protein through chicken/fish/beef. I thought my body responded well to the milk and egg protein anyways. I used to only buy egg protein but due to the cost of it I now only buy whey in bulk....but I still drink 2 gallons of milk per week. Granted my BF is higher than I would like it to be, but that is not due to the milk. More likely the late night eating out....eating out for lunches with coworkers....oh and beer probably isn't helping.

Gordo · 10-05-2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Right now I'm sitting at a 'skinny fat' stage, around 18% BF and 180 lbs.

What's your height?

I think this is the wrong approach. Adding muscle isn't going to do as much for you as you think... You really need to improve your insulin sensitity (which is likely pretty crappy right now) and leaning up will help a lot.

give this a read

Here's an excerpt:

Quote:

n that current data indicates that each pound of muscle might burn an additional 6 calories (as opposed to older values of 25-40 cal/lb or even higher) (1), this argument is no longer tenable; to significantly affect metabolic rate would require a monstrous gain of muscle mass, far more than you could gain in 3-4 weeks.

Even if you gained 10 pounds of muscle, that would only add up to an additional 60 calories burned per day, hardly enough to worry about and certainly not enough to affect the following diet. Which isn't to say that diets don't work better after short or even medium periods of overfeeding, mind you, it's simply not because of gains in muscle mass.

A more recent idea making the rounds in bodybuilding nutrition is that, prior to trying to gain lean body mass, people should diet down first. This reasoning is based on a variety of data that has examined the changes in body composition that occur when you overfeed either thin or fat individuals

11 cups of milk is simply too much milk (bulk or cut).

bigbb · 10-05-2006, 08:20 AM

I'm not exactly new to the diet, i've been eating healthy over a year. I'm running the 5X5 program to gain strength, which i mentioned was primary goal. It is not like I am totally disgusted at my current BF level, but I deftinitley could/need to be leaner. Any ideas of dropping potatoes for more oats? I'm really going to work on hitting 3500 cals instead of trying to hit 4000 and see how i progress there.

Gordo: I am 6 ft. tall. I've always read to lean out before a bulk, but I geuss I'm just stubbornly putting off the inevitable by not cutting. Reason being, I just want to be big, I dont want to cut to 180-->160ish because I have little muscle under this fat, so why cut down to a skinny frame? But the evidence/reasoning for slimming down are definitley there, so it looks like i have once choice....
Yes, that is one thing that i'm concerned about is the insulin spike eeverytime i drank milk, which is every meal. FOr now, any ideas on what to replace the cals with? I get over 1000 cals from milk, so replacing it might be a little difficult.

Gordo · 10-05-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

any ideas on what to replace the cals with?

Brown rice
sweet potatoes
yams
lentils
the ancient grains (quinoa, spelt, Amaranth)
chick peas
whole wheat pasta (watch this one....pretty calorie dense, but in your case, not a bad choice for cals)
sprouted grain breads
corn (a grain, not a veg)
peas
dried fruit (calorie dense)

bigbb · 10-05-2006, 04:00 PM

being in a dorm with a cafeteria i have plenty access to limited types of foods, mainly: baked potatoes, chicken, burgers (70/30 lean), milk, salad, usually a veggie which is coated in oils/sauces though, and all other high calorie/fat college foods you can think of. I geuss more oats are going to be on my menu, thanks.

Gordo · 10-05-2006, 04:13 PM

There's no microwave avaliable?Cheap ones from Walmart are somewhere around $45, that's not too bad even for the starving student. Just a suggestion though.
I know little of dorm life, so I'm not up on the rules of things like that. So if $45 seems to much, or the power restrictions prevent you from getting one, then ignore that suggestion.

Oats would do.

Double D · 10-05-2006, 04:16 PM

Yeah, but whenever you are a student there really isnt alot of extra money to spend. I know whenever I went to school I never had any money. I just relyed on my roomie to bring everything. Rich basturd.

bigbb · 10-05-2006, 04:32 PM

ha! my roomate is a rich bastard, but all he has are cookies, cereal, chips

Yes Gordo, I do have a microwave, and a mini fridge which i can use to make oats and store milk/pb/ cottage cheese and some frozen fruit.

TrojanMan60563 · 10-05-2006, 07:34 PM

get a hot plate or plug in skillet....or a george forman grill...those are cheap at like Meijer. The you can cook chicken right in your room.

Double D · 10-05-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

get a hot plate or plug in skillet....or a george forman grill...those are cheap at like Meijer. The you can cook chicken right in your room.

I always did that. Had the whole hallways smelling like chicken or steak. It was excellent, got to hear everyone bitch about it.

09-29-2006, 11:14 AM	#1
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	Fat Kid Bulking! Hey guys, I need help, well a critique of my bulking diet. Right now I'm sitting at a 'skinny fat' stage, around 18% BF and 180 lbs. I'm on 5X5 training so hopefully I can finally build a foundation to later cut down to in the winter. I am trying to take it slow and clean on my bulk..... Meal 1: Breakfast/PreWO -1 scoop whey -1.25 cup oats -1 cup milk Meal 2: PWO -60 g dextrose -30 g whey -serving of CEE (which i dont think i repsond to) Meal 3: -~6 oz. chicken -1 baked potatoe -big serving of veggies (i'm at college so my cafeteria usually has butter all over the veggies-but I eat them anyways) -3 cups milk Meal 4: -1 serving whey -2 cups milk -2 oz. Peanuts Meal 5: -6 Oz. chicken/ can of tuna -serving of veggies -3-4 cups of milk -4 tbsp. natty pb Meal 6: -1 cup cottage cheese -3 tbsp natty pb -1 cup milk Total: 3629 Fat: 107 962 27% Sat: 20 180 5% Poly: 32 288 8% Mono: 45 409 11% Carbs: 338 1242 35% Fiber: 27 0 0% Protein: 340 1361 38% -I know my diet needs work. It is very unbalanced(calorie meal-to-meal wise) as well which I could use some help on. Keep in mind im in a college dorm, and get 2 meals at the cafeteria everyday, so protein shakes are very cheap and convenient for me. Some days I get up to 4000, so i try to hover b/w 3500-4000 cals as best as I can. I do no cardio, which I may implement soon for health reasons. I know many of you will tell me to cut down to 10%, but i dont wwant to cut down to a skinny toothpick w/ no muscle mass. PLus I've been 'overweight' my whole life, so another 6 months wont kill me. Anything else to help would be appreciated!
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17

10-04-2006, 03:01 PM	#2
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	i think leaning out is more important than going on a clean bulk. You'll still have that soft doughy look only with more fat if you do your original plan. Start out by leaning out and then do a slow bulk of clean carbs.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

10-04-2006, 04:07 PM	#4
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	yeah
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

10-04-2006, 05:04 PM	#6
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	he's right. How you doing PT?
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

10-04-2006, 08:55 PM	#7
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	I geuss i'm being a little stubborn with all the milk, but I cant help to drink it! It's cheap, and I have a dispenser in my cafeteria. Not positive on my bodyfat, but id say 16-18 could be accurate. Following this diet I have gained 6 lbs. in 2 months, with strength gains accomodating nicely. I'm still on the fence whether to cut or continue on my path. I will most likely continue this diet until December-ish and finally get to 10%. I am not focused on my physique, just getting more weight on the bar (I know it may be unhealthy to be at my current BF level). Thanks for everyone's comments. By the way, I don't know what 'PT' is so if you could inform me I'd appreciate it.
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17

10-04-2006, 03:27 PM	#3
assassin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: egypt/cairo Posts: 2,150	i'd suggest that you cut down to 10-12% before you start clean bulking...

10-04-2006, 04:40 PM	#5
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	18% bidyfat now and 10-11 cups of milk will lead to 30% bodyfat...Come on get real and read Jodi's sticky's and learn something

10-04-2006, 08:58 PM	#8
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,930	If your bf is around 16-18 your not unhealthy. Maybe a little chubby, but not unhealthy. If all you are worried about is your weight on the bar, then be sure you are doing as powerlifting routine and dont focus on bodybuilding routines because theres really no reason to.
	www.crossfit.com

10-05-2006, 03:46 AM	#9
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,129 Photos: 2	thats not entirely true; when the numbers go up, the muscle fibers are being made to adapt to the last weight he handled-the more weight, the more the fiber has to overcome next time he trains that bodypart-the bigger and better fibers win over. Its very easy to encorporate the two: Look at the power/rep range/shock routines in the stickies section. Or look up max-ot on google. Now, go ahead and make the mistake of going on a bulk and you will regret it. Trust all of us, dont bulk.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

10-05-2006, 03:49 AM	#10
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,381	How about just cleaning up your diet. Are you new to training and eating proper? If so you could make some significant changes just by making healthier choice.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

10-05-2006, 07:28 AM	#11
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 2,927 Photos: 1	I don't think the milk is a problem....I did something very similar when I was in the Navy. The food was really bad and I didn't have access to protein powder very often....so I would drink like 5 cups of milk at each meal probably from a very similar dispenser. So anyways I don't think you should stop doing that if you can't afford to eat more protein through chicken/fish/beef. I thought my body responded well to the milk and egg protein anyways. I used to only buy egg protein but due to the cost of it I now only buy whey in bulk....but I still drink 2 gallons of milk per week. Granted my BF is higher than I would like it to be, but that is not due to the milk. More likely the late night eating out....eating out for lunches with coworkers....oh and beer probably isn't helping.

10-05-2006, 08:20 AM	#13
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	I'm not exactly new to the diet, i've been eating healthy over a year. I'm running the 5X5 program to gain strength, which i mentioned was primary goal. It is not like I am totally disgusted at my current BF level, but I deftinitley could/need to be leaner. Any ideas of dropping potatoes for more oats? I'm really going to work on hitting 3500 cals instead of trying to hit 4000 and see how i progress there. Gordo: I am 6 ft. tall. I've always read to lean out before a bulk, but I geuss I'm just stubbornly putting off the inevitable by not cutting. Reason being, I just want to be big, I dont want to cut to 180-->160ish because I have little muscle under this fat, so why cut down to a skinny frame? But the evidence/reasoning for slimming down are definitley there, so it looks like i have once choice.... Yes, that is one thing that i'm concerned about is the insulin spike eeverytime i drank milk, which is every meal. FOr now, any ideas on what to replace the cals with? I get over 1000 cals from milk, so replacing it might be a little difficult. Last edited by bigbb : 10-05-2006 at 08:36 AM.
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17

10-05-2006, 04:00 PM	#15
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	being in a dorm with a cafeteria i have plenty access to limited types of foods, mainly: baked potatoes, chicken, burgers (70/30 lean), milk, salad, usually a veggie which is coated in oils/sauces though, and all other high calorie/fat college foods you can think of. I geuss more oats are going to be on my menu, thanks.
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17

10-05-2006, 04:13 PM	#16
Gordo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: O' Canada...stuck in the middle of you Posts: 1,036 Photos: 8	There's no microwave avaliable?Cheap ones from Walmart are somewhere around $45, that's not too bad even for the starving student. Just a suggestion though. I know little of dorm life, so I'm not up on the rules of things like that. So if $45 seems to much, or the power restrictions prevent you from getting one, then ignore that suggestion. Oats would do.

10-05-2006, 04:16 PM	#17
Double D Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 9,930	Yeah, but whenever you are a student there really isnt alot of extra money to spend. I know whenever I went to school I never had any money. I just relyed on my roomie to bring everything. Rich basturd.
	www.crossfit.com

10-05-2006, 04:32 PM	#18
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17	ha! my roomate is a rich bastard, but all he has are cookies, cereal, chips Yes Gordo, I do have a microwave, and a mini fridge which i can use to make oats and store milk/pb/ cottage cheese and some frozen fruit.
bigbb Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17

10-05-2006, 07:34 PM	#19
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 2,927 Photos: 1	get a hot plate or plug in skillet....or a george forman grill...those are cheap at like Meijer. The you can cook chicken right in your room.

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