Thread: Diabetic Diet?

is she a big girl? She going to have change her whole lifestyle

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Originally Posted by ANCAM

Hello All...

My wife recently found out that she is diabetic..

Type 2 I'm guessing?

Originally Posted by ANCAM

the doctor she has been going to gave her a list of foods that she can and cannot eat. I looks like a total joke to me...imop it looked like a variation of Atkins, she can eat bacon regularly but skim milk is a big time no. Totally retarded.

Not necessarily. The lactose in skimmed milk produces a significant glucose response, bacon doesn't. Click the following links:-

Schwarzbein Principle - The Transition Program To Optimum Health
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. A Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars. Official Web Site
Diabetes without Complications! Eating for less insulin makes for health

http://www.diabetes-book.com/articles/ONeill2003.pdf
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.k...ol%20level.pdf
http://www.kup.at/kup/pdf/1292.pdf
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/144/9/3958.pdf
Vitamin D Status and Glucose Homeostasis in the 1958 British Birth Cohort: The role of obesity -- Hyppönen and Power 29 (10): 2244 -- Diabetes Care

In conclusion, your wife should eat the right amount of low-GL carbs to suit her activity level. If she's sedentary, that means that she can't eat a lot of carbs without sending her blood glucose high. She should supplement (with the agreement of her doctor) with ~2,000iu/day of Vitamin D3 (VRP is a good supplier) if she doesn't get out much, and ~2,000mg/day of EPA&DHA from fish oil capsules. Cheers, Nige.

Thanks for your help all..
and she is almost 105 pounds not very big at all...

Before we can help you, something nobody wants to do given that avatar, you need to tell us what type she is?

My brother is a type one and the one thing I stress to him, as I do with other similar diseases, is that you control it, you don't let it control you.

Definately going to need a lower carb diet. I don't feel that eating bacon in place of better quality protein sources is the right answer though. Check out those link Nigee gave to understand a bit more. Good stuff Nigee

I am also diabetic... Type 2, but in the early stages. And fortunately it's pretty much controlled and not progressing. The diet I follow is a ckd, cyclic ketogenic diet. Pretty much Atkins (which is not a license to eat bacon, hot dogs and processed meats with reckless abandon) during the week and a short re-carb on the weekend. The re-carb should be as clean as possible: whole grains, oats, vegs, etc., no white flour or sugar (but who is perfect? ).

I weightlift, mountain bike, and am starting to run again. The only time I run out of steam is when I haven't slept enough. Otherwise I have plenty of energy in the gym and on the bike (8 miles Sunday, mostly on-road). And this morning, for one of the first times ever, my fasting blood glucose was 87. It's usually in the high 90s-low 100s.

For Type 2 diabetics, the best diet is probably low carb.The ADA is just plain wrong in recommending a diet high in carbs, no matter what kind. Why should a person who cannot process sugar eat the very thing that turns into sugar?

For low sodium lots of fresh vegetables, unsalted nuts, and some fruits, though obviously with diabeties you have to be more aware of how fruits are going to affect blood sugar. It doesn't sound like your doctor covered why to avoid some foods, diabetic diets generally try to avoid insulin spikes and that's pretty much why atkins works... so no surprise there. Isn't bacon kind of salty, if the doc said low sodium I'd think that'd knock bacon off the list. Was the low sodium possibly for blood pressure reasons and not so much because of the diabeties?

She is Type 2.
I figured low carb diet...alot of the parts of the diet just do not make sense to me...

She is big on Pilates... just as a husband I want to help, just don't really know how.

Originally Posted by ANCAM

alot of the parts of the diet just do not make sense to me...

That's not uncommon. A lot of people are scared off by the idea of low carb. It's against the common wisdom. What doesn't make sense?

Originally Posted by Minotaur

That's not uncommon. A lot of people are scared off by the idea of low carb. It's against the common wisdom. What doesn't make sense?

I konw its not uncommon...just i thought it seems dramatic thats all. Like if she has a spoonful of Ice Cream one time in the course of a month..it could screw up her whole eating regmine...that isnt a bit X-treme?

Originally Posted by ANCAM

I konw its not uncommon...just i thought it seems dramatic thats all. Like if she has a spoonful of Ice Cream one time in the course of a month..it could screw up her whole eating regmine...that isnt a bit X-treme?

Uh... yeah... that's definitely extreme. And probably unnecessary. I don't believe that a little treat or cheat once in a while will adversely affect her. I follow a ketogenic diet, and sure I cheat once in a while. You just can't make a habit of it.

In the case of someone just trying to lose weight, cheating isn't an issue, in the case of a diabetic it's a little different. I don't think one bite of ice cream would be an issue, but say a bowl of ice cream could if it raised blood sugar enough, just as letting it fall too low would be bad. The things she was eating before finding out she had diabeties will continue to have the same effect they did before though presumably growing worse over time, so if she could eat it before without dire consequences, she can probably still eat it, the question is whether or not she should, it's not like that list is suddenly toxic and absolutely off limits, but those are the things to avoid, some more than others.

I don't know if it's true or not, but bananas have a high GI rating and so they tend to cause insulin spikes, if you ate just a banana you'd spike.... would that be the same if you ate something like plain oatmeal and then the banana (would the response be more steady and therefore less of an issue). It seems like this is right, that the two foods would average each other out somewhat, but I'm pretty sure it isn't and that the two foods would be more of an addition, more is always more so to speak. Plain oatmeal may be on the naughty list too but I think it's OK (so long as it's truly just plain).

Originally Posted by ANCAM

I konw its not uncommon...just i thought it seems dramatic thats all. Like if she has a spoonful of Ice Cream one time in the course of a month..it could screw up her whole eating regime...that isn't a bit X-treme?

One spoonful of icecream will produce one blood glucose spike. One blood glucose spike a month won't hurt. What hurts is lots of blood glucose spikes from eating the ADA-recommended high-carb, low-fat diet. Lots of blood glucose spikes raises HbA1c. See Weight of the Evidence: Fatally Flawed Health & Risk Paradigms: Part 1 to see how rapidly the risk factor for CHD, CVD & Death increases with increasing HbA1c.

Originally Posted by DanK

I don't know if it's true or not, but bananas have a high GI rating and so they tend to cause insulin spikes, if you ate just a banana you'd spike.... would that be the same if you ate something like plain oatmeal and then the banana (would the response be more steady and therefore less of an issue). It seems like this is right, that the two foods would average each other out somewhat, but I'm pretty sure it isn't and that the two foods would be more of an addition, more is always more so to speak. Plain oatmeal may be on the naughty list too but I think it's OK (so long as it's truly just plain).

GI measurements are taken using only that particular food. Same with II (insulin index). Limited data is available on what happens when you combine a healthy fat, say nuts, with a high GI food. But...things mix in the stomach. So you are correct in saying that the GI of a meal should be a kind of average (taking into account quanity of each food along with GI), or at least derived from the content of the meal.

Here's some support from T-nation:
"• 2 oz. and 3oz. of pistachios eaten with 50 grams of carbs from white bread decreased the glycemic index (GI) of the meal from 100 to 65 and 50, respectively. Unfortunately they didn't test any other nuts so who's to say this effect is unique to pistachios and not just a function of added protein and fat?"

Testosterone Nation - Experimental Biology 2007

I think it is reasonable to say that the effect is from the fat slowing down digestion and not something magical that is specific to pistachios.

I also think that this is a good argument for the performance nutrition rule of eating 5-6 small complete meals a day. If you rarely "snack" and instead consume all of your calories as a combination of protein, fat, and carbs, then you are never spiking your insulin (unless you intend to after a workout with a banana, dextrose, or whatever.)

Another consequence of always eating complete meals is that the GI becomes a lot less useful...

However, the bottom line is that I am not (yet) a doctor, and quite a bit of this is speculation without a lot of data to follow. I am not recommending that she eat any old thing as long as she has a few pistachios or some peanut butter, and I am not trying to overturn what your doctor said. I do think, though, that the best thing for your wife to do is to follow a consistent diet, keep a consistent journal of her blood sugar levels (the doctor probably told her to check herself at home once daily? Or is she using a pump?) and modify the diet accordingly.

One more thing - diet and exercise matter. I know many people with type I diabetes and type II who do not or cannot exercise, and they are in bad shape; on the other hand is Adam Morrison, NBA basketball player, who has been controlling his diabetes (type I) since his teenage years and, well...plays in the NBA. Further evidence: there are many type II patients at the clinic where I volunteer; those with the most well-controlled diabetes and lowest hemoglobin A1C (glycosylated hemoglobin - a measurement of the average blood sugar over the last few months) are...you guess it, the construction workers. Sedentary patients and obese patients are the worst.

It can be done, take heart!

If people with diabetes self-monitor their BG several times a day before and after various meals, they'll soon see which diet results in the most stable BG.

Someone who works as a male nurse did just this. Here are some BM (Boehringer Mannheim) finger-prick results in mmol/L that he got (multiply by 18 to get mg/dL). Multiply all readings by 1.1 to get BG:-

1745 BM ~5.7
1745 Salmon, new potatoes and salad
1915 BM =8.1
.
0310 BM =5.7
0330-0430 2 apples, 1 banana & 1 pear
0500 BM =11.8
.
2330 BM =4.8
0015 Muesli, 2 apples, 1 banana & 1 pear
0130 1 Cadbury "Heroes" chocolate (small candy)
0200 BM =12.8

So, does it look like eating cereals and/or fruit is good for people with type 2 diabetes?

2330 BM =4.8

What is the number in bold? Is that a time of day (military time) or is that something else? Did the person taking these measures have diabeties, or were they simply testing the responses to foods for study/curiousity?

So, does it look like eating cereals and/or fruit is good for people with type 2 diabetes?

It looks to me from the small portion of data you posted that eating a bunch of fruits, or eating a bunch of fruits, with a piece of candy is going to make BM go up, and that Meusli isn't going to offset all that fruit much. If the number on the left is time, then that lone piece of candy could be significantly standing out, basically there really isn't that much to go on with the short amount of information you brought over (and I probably don't really want to go over a larger amount of data to analyze... but you did ask a probably rhetorical question supported by it...).

Seems like with the number of people in the country with diabeties and the general awareness of it (being up there with heart attacks, strokes and cancer as the things we're supposed to worry about medically if we are overweight) that there would be lots of studies on the things diabetics can eat and what can have an influence on it. Particularly in the last few years it would seem that people are more interested in being able to control diabeties through diet. I suppose there's a lot more funding for research into whether or not a particular companies drug is effective vs how you can avoid using a particular companies drug by eating smarter which there is no question has to be done in addition to the drugs.

Originally Posted by DanK

What is the number in bold? Is that a time of day (military time)?

Yes.

Originally Posted by DanK

Did the person taking these measures have diabetes, or were they simply testing the responses to foods for study/curiosity?

This person was recently diagnosed with type 2 diabetes based on a fasting BG of 7.2mmol/L and an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test with a 2-hour post-glucose load result of 18.2mmol/L. I suggested that he regularly measured his BG as he is a male nurse and has access to the necessary equipment at the hospital where he works.

Originally Posted by DanK

It looks to me from the small portion of data you posted that eating a bunch of fruits, or eating a bunch of fruits, with a piece of candy is going to make BM go up, and that Muesli isn't going to offset all that fruit much.

Muesli being mostly carbs probably makes BM even higher.

Originally Posted by DanK

If the number on the left is time, then that lone piece of candy could be significantly standing out, basically there really isn't that much to go on with the short amount of information you brought over (and I probably don't really want to go over a larger amount of data to analyze... but you did ask a probably rhetorical question supported by it...).

He didn't provide me with any more data. Based on the test results he got, he lowered the Glycaemic Load of his diet and upped the omega-3 content and at his next doctor's appointment, his fasting BG was normal and his BP was virtually normal (his GP previously wanted him to take BP, Cholesterol and Diabetes meds).

Originally Posted by DanK

Seems like with the number of people in the country with diabetes and the general awareness of it (being up there with heart attacks, strokes and cancer as the things we're supposed to worry about medically if we are overweight) that there would be lots of studies on the things diabetics can eat and what can have an influence on it. Particularly in the last few years it would seem that people are more interested in being able to control diabetes through diet. I suppose there's a lot more funding for research into whether or not a particular companies drug is effective vs how you can avoid using a particular companies drug by eating smarter which there is no question has to be done in addition to the drugs.

Sadly, the ADA (and Diabetes-UK on this side of the Atlantic) are still of the opinion that sugars & starches are fine for people with diabetes despite all of the studies suggesting otherwise (and the increasing number of people finding out for themselves by self-monitoring). See The Cure For Diabetes - Men's Health
and Weight of the Evidence: Shut Up and Eat Your Carbohydrates!
Cheers, Nige.

Originally Posted by Nigeepoo

One spoonful of icecream will produce one blood glucose spike. One blood glucose spike a month won't hurt. What hurts is lots of blood glucose spikes from eating the ADA-recommended high-carb, low-fat diet. Lots of blood glucose spikes raises HbA1c. See Weight of the Evidence: Fatally Flawed Health & Risk Paradigms: Part 1 to see how rapidly the risk factor for CHD, CVD & Death increases with increasing HbA1c.