Too much protein?

**IainDaniel** · 11-15-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

No... I don't.

So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros
Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals.

That is the point

1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs!

Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley.

2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM.

I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb?

3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks.

6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb.

4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat.

Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself

i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake.

Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uthinkso

Does it really turn into fat though?

I guess there are some clues in here but it's all gobbledegook to me.

This site (dietitian.com) is much easier to understand (no chemistry degree required!) and it says "Excess protein, above body needs, is used for fuel or converted to body fat" and "protein will only show up in your urine.. if you have a kidney infection"

**P-funk** · 11-15-2007, 06:17 PM

this thread gets better by the minute.

there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys.

3g/lb is absurd.

**IainDaniel** · 11-15-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

this thread gets better by the minute.

there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys.

3g/lb is absurd.

Shut up.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

3g/lb is absurd.

Hey! It was the national kidney foundation's tests, not mine. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys.

Care to elaborate/educate?

Pretty please.

TrojanMan60563 · 11-15-2007, 06:45 PM

3g/lb is crazy....I couldn't eat 630g protein per day (going off LBM)....that would mean eating HUGE meals or hourly meals....that would be crazy. I can't see doing that without gaining fat.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Originally Posted by Big G
No... I don't.

So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros
Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals.

That is the point

There is no point in comparing fat-calories-per-dollar to protein-calories-per-dollar unless you're some broke-ass-bitch who's wondering how he can buy as many calories as he can for a pocket full of change! In which case fat would be an excellent choice, I agree. BTW, do you really think eating is an "effort"!?

1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs!

Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley. Congratulations! You managed to list some carbs that are cheaper than protein. Well done.

In reality however, I don't eat anywhere near as much rice/oats/barley as I do fresh fruit/veg which, incidentally, are actually "ridiculously expensive"!!

I can't believe I'm having a debate about whether protein is "ridiculously expensive" or not. If I swapped ½ my protein calories for fresh fruit/veg my grocery bill would go up. If I swapped those calories for rice/oats/barley it would go down. So what? Who cares?

2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM.

I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb?
I didn't invent, conduct or draw conclusions from the National Kidney Foundation's test. I merely referenced it. Why are you asking me the point of doing something that I don't do?

3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks.

6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb. OK, well... That's that then! End of discussion! Yesterday's Fitday.com data shows 4,117cal consumed with 359g protein. Looking through my food log, complete proteins per meal average at 44g (which was actually a little higher than normal because I had an oversized portion of turkey at one point). The balance was incomplete proteins but they still get recorded as protein because they are.

4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat.

Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself 4calories is 4calories is 4calories. I need 3,500-4,000 to keep from losing weight depending on if I'm training that day or not. I'm aiming for 4,250 at the moment because I'm bulking, but I'm not anticipating much, if any, of that to become body fat. I eat when I'm hungry. I get hungry every 2-3hours. It's that simple.

i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake.

Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste. 20%fat, 45%carbs, 35% protein isn't balanced? I figured that was a pretty balanced ratio.

KelJu · 11-15-2007, 07:14 PM

Way too high! Eat less protein, and more fruit, slow burning carbs, and veggies.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

3g/lb is crazy....I couldn't eat 630g protein per day (going off LBM)....that would mean eating HUGE meals or hourly meals....that would be crazy. I can't see doing that without gaining fat.

Agreed.

3g/lb was a test the National Kidney Foundation did to asses whether an extremely high protein intake would adversely affect the kidneys in healthy individual. They concluded that it did not.

However, having clarified that point (once again), I'm quite certain that they're not recommending we all start doing that! That would be crazy, you're right!

Big G · 11-15-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelJu

Way too high! Eat less protein, and more fruit, slow burning carbs, and veggies.

40g complete proteins per meal waaay to high... really? Honestly? Sure?

More fruit!!?

Have you even seen my food log!?

**IainDaniel** · 11-15-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel (Too much protein?)

Originally Posted by Big G
No... I don't.

So lets take Peanut butter for instance. what $2 for 1lb, Which is 2600 cals, with a more balance portion of macros
Your Chicken is 461 cals per pound. See the cost difference, let alone the effort it takes to eat the same amount of cals.

That is the point

There is no point in comparing fat-calories-per-dollar to protein-calories-per-dollar unless you're some broke-ass-bitch who's wondering how he can buy as many calories as he can for a pocket full of change! In which case fat would be an excellent choice, I agree. BTW, do you really think eating is an "effort"!?

Sure there is, maybe not for you but there are other people here learning as well. At 4000+ cals a day of clean eating, yes I do think eating is a chore.

1. Protein is still inexpensive compared to a LOT of carbs!

Far from it. Compare it to any rice, oats, barley. Congratulations! You managed to list some carbs that are cheaper than protein. Well done. In reality however, I don't eat anywhere near as much rice/oats/barley as I do fresh fruit/veg which, incidentally, are actually "ridiculously expensive"!!

I can't believe I'm having a debate about whether protein is "ridiculously expensive" or not. If I swapped ½ my protein calories for fresh fruit/veg my grocery bill would go up. If I swapped those calories for rice/oats/barley it would go down. So what? Who cares?

Why do you skip on Oats, Sweet Potatoes, Red Potatoes, Barley, Rice in favour of fruits?

2. The National Kidney Association still sees no problem with up to 3g/lb LBM.

I don't really care about that study. What would be the point of using 3g/lb?
I didn't invent, conduct or draw conclusions from the National Kidney Foundation's test. I merely referenced it. Why are you asking me the point of doing something that I don't do?

I am saying that 2 g / lb of protein is waste. Why not eat something that will benefit you, some more fats, ie omega 3 fatty acids.

3. 3oz of chicken (for examaple) instead of 6oz with each meal still sucks.

6 oz of chicken is like 36g of protein, assuming you are eating 6 meals a day that would equal just over 1g/lb. OK, well... That's that then! End of discussion! Yesterday's Fitday.com data shows 4,117cal consumed with 359g protein. Looking through my food log, complete proteins per meal average at 44g (which was actually a little higher than normal because I had an oversized portion of turkey at one point). The balance was incomplete proteins but they still get recorded as protein because they are.

I am not sure what your point is here.

4. Your body still uses more calories to convert protein to fat than it does to convert carbs to fat.

Really a null point. If you think it makes that big of a difference you are fooling yourself 4calories is 4calories is 4calories. I need 3,500-4,000 to keep from losing weight depending on if I'm training that day or not. I'm aiming for 4,250 at the moment because I'm bulking, but I'm not anticipating much, if any, of that to become body fat. I eat when I'm hungry. I get hungry every 2-3hours. It's that simple.

So if you are bulking they why even bother with the thermal properties of digestion? You like to complicate things too much. Eating shouldn't be that difficult.

i.e. I still see no reason to reduce intake.

Balance your diet with Adequate Carbs, Fats, and Protein. You can do whatever you chose. 2g of protein is a waste. 20%fat, 45%carbs, 35% protein isn't balanced? I figured that was a pretty balanced ratio.

I agree. You could up the Fat intake a little.

**IainDaniel** · 11-15-2007, 07:45 PM

I looked at you fitday, and your carb are decent, but you eat too much fruit.

For one to criticize about 4 cups of milk and the sugar intake, check the amount of sugar from all the fruit in your diet.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I looked at you fitday, and your carb are decent, but you eat too much fruit.

For one to criticize about 4 cups of milk and the sugar intake, check the amount of sugar from all the fruit in your diet.

OMG, I know, I know! That's what I said!

I posted a thread (Looking to identify low-glycemic fruits. Can you help?) on here not very long ago asking about low glycemic fruits because I was getting bored of using only dried peaches & cherries in my muesli (i.e. oats,nuts,dried fruit & milk, eaten like cereal).

You replied by saying "Why?" and when I explained that I was concerned about the sugar content Jodi replied with "For bulking, eat any fruit you want."

That's when I started eating at least one piece of fruit with every meal. I like fruit. I haven't had much over the past year because I was concerned about the sugar content.

Truth be told though, I haven't noticed any significant adverse effects on my physique. I didn't start getting fat or anything. I just recently upped my calories again becuase I seem to be absorbing everything I put in myself.

KelJu · 11-15-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

40g complete proteins per meal waaay to high... really? Honestly? Sure?

More fruit!!?

Have you even seen my food log!?

I was replying to the OP.

**IainDaniel** · 11-15-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

OMG, I know, I know! That's what I said!

I posted a thread (Looking to identify low-glycemic fruits. Can you help?) on here not very long ago asking about low glycemic fruits because I was getting bored of using only dried peaches & cherries in my muesli (i.e. oats,nuts,dried fruit & milk, eaten like cereal).

You replied by saying "Why?" and when I explained that I was concerned about the sugar content Jodi replied with "For bulking, eat any fruit you want."

That's when I started eating at least one piece of fruit with every meal. I like fruit. I haven't had much over the past year because I was concerned about the sugar content.

Truth be told though, I haven't noticed any significant adverse effects on my physique. I didn't start getting fat or anything. I just recently upped my calories again becuase I seem to be absorbing everything I put in myself.

LOL.

If you are fine with your progress then keep at it.

ecwholic · 11-15-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

ecw... I already discussed this in great length in reply to your PM. Stop thinking so much and just eat! if you start getting fat eat less. if yuo're not getting fat eat more. This isn't freakin' rocket science here!

Whoops, just saw the PM before the post. I've liked the gains I've seen in the 2 weeks doing the bulk in the gym and with my body so far. I'd say so far its been 2-3 lbs or so in the 2 week period.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

At 4000+ cals a day of clean eating, yes I do think eating is a chore

Hmm... wierd. I get hungry. I eat. I never thought of it as an effort. 4,000+cal slides down just fine for me.

Why do you skip on Oats, Sweet Potatoes, Red Potatoes, Barley, Rice in favour of fruits?

I do eat all those things but at work people complain about the smell of food when it's not lunchtime. And, if I'm making a quick turkey sandwich (for example) an apple looks much better sat on the side of my plate than half a cold baked yam. I'd be just as happy to say "screw the apple" and have some walnuts though. I'm not fussy. I just figured more fresh fruit/veg was the name of the game. I did ask first. You were there when Jodi said "Eat up!" like I said above.

I am saying that 2 g / lb of protein is waste. Why not eat something that will benefit you, some more fats, ie omega 3 fatty acids.

Hold on. I thought we already concluded that 40g complete protein per meal was perfectly fine. If I get an extra 5g from some brussel sprouts surely you don't want me to eat less steak!

I am not sure what your point is here.

Same point as above... If I get an extra 5g from some brussel sprouts surely you don't want me to eat less steak!

So if you are bulking they why even bother with the thermal properties of digestion? You like to complicate things too much. Eating shouldn't be that difficult.

Eating isn't difficult and I don't like to complicate things too much. Those are both silly statements to make. I don't know anyone that enjoys complicating things too much. Why would anyone like doing that?

I mentioned the thermic effect of food because it's another example of an occassion when you may eat 100cal (for example) but your body uses 40cal in breaking down the food so you only get 60cal out of it.

If and when protein is converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis (in ketosis or otherwise) the body uses energy to do this. Hence you could eat 100cal of protein but, by the time the body has used up 20cal converting it to glucose you're only getting 80cal out of it.

It's similar in that regard, that's all.

You could up the Fat intake a little.

That's fine. I don't care.

Are you suggesting 25f:45c:30p, 30f,50c,20p, 25f,50c,25p...?
Bare in mind those pesky brussel sprouts (again, just for example) have a fair amount of protein in them too (albeit incomplete, fitday still includes those #s in its percentages) .

Big G · 11-15-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecwholic

Whoops, just saw the PM before the post. I've liked the gains I've seen in the 2 weeks doing the bulk in the gym and with my body so far. I'd say so far its been 2-3 lbs or so in the 2 week period.

That's fine. And I'm glad your weight has gone the direction you wanted it to. Just remember, if you start to look doughy looking you might want to drop your calories a little.

It's not an exact science and it's certainly not the same for everyone. You'll learn your body in time. Be patient. If you have questions you're in the right place for answers. Just don't criticize Iain's post workout shakes or he'll call you arrogant for a year! (I'm kidding Iain, I'm kidding!!)

**P-funk** · 11-16-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big G

Hey! It was the national kidney foundation's tests, not mine. .

Care to elaborate/educate?

Pretty please.

high protein diets are very acidic. in order to make the blood more basic, the body can start to use calcium stored in bones, disrupting mineral homeostasis.

if you are eating that much protein, you are missing out on various other nutrients that your body may need. your diet needs to be balanced and have variety.

carbohydrates are protein sparing. if you eat more of them, you need less protein because the protein you intake will be used more efficiently. as well, carbohydrates are our primary source of energy.

I don't buy into tests or research funded by organizations. A lot of times, their results are biased by the people who are slipping them money. Anyone can fudge the statistics and show what they want. Especially if the price is right.

Big G · 11-16-2007, 09:03 AM

Thx P.

So, per post above, are you suggesting 25f:45c:30p, 30f,50c,20p, 25f,50c,25p...?

Bare in mind those pesky brussel sprouts (again, just for example) have a fair amount of protein in them too (albeit incomplete, fitday still includes those #s in its percentages) .

40g complete protein per meal sound OK (i.e. 240g/day or 1.33g/lb)? If so, that's where I'm at anyways. The rest is incomplete protein from veg and what-not.

As always, grateful for feedback,
G.

11-15-2007, 06:17 PM	#33
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,789	this thread gets better by the minute. there are other issues with that high of protein intake besides just your kidneys. 3g/lb is absurd.
	My Blog.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-15-2007, 07:45 PM	#42
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,112	I looked at you fitday, and your carb are decent, but you eat too much fruit. For one to criticize about 4 cups of milk and the sugar intake, check the amount of sugar from all the fruit in your diet.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

11-16-2007, 09:03 AM	#50
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,214 Photos: 1	Thx P. So, per post above, are you suggesting 25f:45c:30p, 30f,50c,20p, 25f,50c,25p...? Bare in mind those pesky brussel sprouts (again, just for example) have a fair amount of protein in them too (albeit incomplete, fitday still includes those #s in its percentages) . 40g complete protein per meal sound OK (i.e. 240g/day or 1.33g/lb)? If so, that's where I'm at anyways. The rest is incomplete protein from veg and what-not. As always, grateful for feedback, G.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

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11-15-2007, 06:45 PM	#36
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,063 Photos: 1	3g/lb is crazy....I couldn't eat 630g protein per day (going off LBM)....that would mean eating HUGE meals or hourly meals....that would be crazy. I can't see doing that without gaining fat.