Too much protein?

ecwholic · 10-03-2007, 11:46 PM

I was playing around with diet stats on fitday and noticed that my diet with a homemade weight gainer would consist of 347 grams of protein, at 160 lbs, if I were to consume this much protein, would it be a problem?

vortrit · 10-03-2007, 11:55 PM

That much protein seem rather pointless...

Mista · 10-04-2007, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecwholic

I was playing around with diet stats on fitday and noticed that my diet with a homemade weight gainer would consist of 347 grams of protein, at 160 lbs, if I were to consume this much protein, would it be a problem?

Post the diet.

Tier · 10-04-2007, 07:54 AM

As long as your ok with a good portion of that turning in to fat

**Jodi** · 10-07-2007, 11:49 PM

That's a bit excessive doncha think? You don't really need anymore than 50G of protein at one sitting.

TrojanMan60563 · 10-08-2007, 12:02 AM

If that is per day...its still a little high, but if that is per meal then a total waste.

vortrit · 10-08-2007, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanMan60563

If that is per day...its still a little high, but if that is per meal then a total waste.

That has to be per day I would think. That much protein per meal would just be crazy...

TrojanMan60563 · 10-08-2007, 08:40 AM

I guess we don't really have all the info to help....you don't mention how much fat or carbs you are consuming daily. For a person your size you probably do not use all that protein in a day. If you are not burning it off then you will store it..

ecwholic · 11-04-2007, 03:22 PM

here was the stats on fitday:

Total: 3417
Fat: 77 693 21%
Sat: 14 127 4%
Poly: 15 131 4%
Mono: 30 266 8%
Carbs: 394 1376 42%
Fiber: 50 0 0%
Protein: 298 1191 37%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

I'm trying to bulk up, I cut the protein down some, would I be okay going with that much protein?

**IainDaniel** · 11-04-2007, 06:53 PM

What was your caloric in take and diet like prior to this?

ecwholic · 11-04-2007, 08:14 PM

Unfortunately I'm on my pda typing this, but to briefly sum it up at this moment, I was eating maintainance, around 2700 calories with about 70g of fat, 300 g of carbs, and 230g of protein, it was a health diet with lots of veggies, right kind of fat, complex carbs, etc.

**IainDaniel** · 11-05-2007, 07:36 AM

Bump up your cals by 10% and monitor for a couple of weeks. I wouldn't suggest randomly choosing a cal intake. Do it methodically and learn.

ecwholic · 11-08-2007, 08:12 PM

Well, I've managed to put together a diet of 269g of protein over a span of a day, that in a safer range?

Big G · 11-10-2007, 07:39 PM

I'm 6'2", 184lb and regularly take in 350-400g of protein daily as part of a 3,500-4,000cal diet. The national kidney foundation has done studies on individuals up to 3g of protein per 1lb of weight and found no problems for those with healthy kidney function. It's important that you take in plenty of water while consuming this much protein.

It's not pointless and it won't turn to fat as suggested above. If you're training hard you will be doing a significant amount of damage to your muscles and your body will readily utilize any available protein to repair and maintenance. I'm 23lb up from March'07 and my abs look damned similar to the way they did back then, so I'm not gaining much in the way of bodyfat.

Iain has good advice... adjust your calories and see what happens. Don't make any alarming changes (e.g. 2000-3000cal overnight), do it gradually.

My guess is you'd be surprised how many calories you can use. Increase your calories over the next 2weeks to 3,500 and stick to that for a month. The scale will probably take an alarming jump as you carb up, but I bet you'll just gain weight steadily after that with minimal, if any, body fat accumulation.

Remember... you need to eat more than enough for optimal hypertrophy so some bodyfat accumulation is to be expected. If you're not getting fatter week fter week on 2,500cal you're proably not maintaining; you're starving yourself.

Up your calories and see how it goes. My guess is that you could pack away 4,000cal+ if you're active. You're young and, if you eat regularly (at the very most every 3hours) you'll burn though them.

Be smart though. Don't eat 3pc bread before bed every night and expect to stay lean. Reduce your carbs nearer to bed time. Nothing starchy after 4-5pm. No bread, rice, pasta, sweetpot, yams, corn etc. You don't need a boat-load of carbs while you're sleeping. Carb up in the morning with whole grain bread, milk, fruit etc so you've got energy for the day ahead (incl. the gym!). If you're hungry in the evenings eat a truckload of green veg. The Thermic Effect of Food will burn off most of the calories just trying to extract the calories from the veg.

Additionally, if the body is starved of carbs and has more than enough protein it can convert the protein to sugar via gluconeogenesis. This process itself requires the burning of calories so, again, you're burning a lot of calories trying to extract calories from your food (hence you can eat more).

Anyway... If you're not gaining some fat, you're not eating enough. And, as you get bigger, your bigger muscles are going to require more food. At 184lb I'm honestly wondering if I could eat 4,500cal daily. I'm certainly not getting fat on almost 4,000so I'll probably up it a bit, wait a month, and look in the mirror. The mirror is the best judge of all, if you ask me! Screw calipers and scales. Just look in the mirror. Are you losing definition? How quickly is it happening? If it's happening fast drop your calories a little. If it's not happening, eat more! If it's already happened to the point that you don;t like what you see any more, crop your calories way back for a while, run-run-run and cut some of that body fat off. Any strength losses will come back fairly quickly, I promise you. Muscles have memory.

Elson · 11-13-2007, 05:04 PM

too much protein = expensive pee

Big G · 11-13-2007, 06:49 PM

too little protein = sub-optimal growth.

I can afford to pee a dollar or two here or there!

BigDyl · 11-14-2007, 03:00 PM

Too much protein = gluconeogenesis.

Although is your on a cycle of AAS, your protein synthesis is 50x higher, so I'm sure you can go much higher then.

In any case the jury is still out on the best macronutrient ratio for BB'ing. Some suggest 33/33/33. Others say 40/40/20. It's probably more individual specific.

ecwholic · 11-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Too much protein = gluconeogenesis.

Although is your on a cycle of AAS, your protein synthesis is 50x higher, so I'm sure you can go much higher then.

In any case the jury is still out on the best macronutrient ratio for BB'ing. Some suggest 33/33/33. Others say 40/40/20. It's probably more individual specific.

I've finalized a diet with 250g of protein, much less. Since I haven't taken Bio in years, gluconeogenesis, all I know is that its the conversion of non-sugar into glucose. Is too much of this gonna be bad??

**IainDaniel** · 11-14-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDyl

Too much protein = gluconeogenesis.

Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis.

Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full?

Big G · 11-14-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis.

Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full?

Yeah, that was my understanding too, but I'm also surprised that the body wouldn't utilize such a significant source of energy.

I often consume 2g of protein per pound of me. If I only actually need 1g per pound then I pee almost 800calories of protein out daily (excl. any not digested). I can't see that being true. So, maybe, gluconeogenesis occurs as a stepping stone to fat storage afterall.

Anyone know of any good reading on this subject?

**IainDaniel** · 11-14-2007, 06:42 PM

Proteins are broken down to amino acids which are used in the body.

Excess would be converted to sugar or fat.

I personally don't see a need for 2g of Protein per lb. That is ridiculously expensive.

BigDyl · 11-14-2007, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis.

Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full?

If you consume excess calories, your body will use them. Burn them or store them. If the excess cals are from protein, then it will store them.

**Jodi** · 11-14-2007, 08:49 PM

If the excess calories are from any macro, it will store them.

ecwholic · 11-15-2007, 01:15 AM

Just wanted to know, I heard to up my calories within 2 weeks or so if I stop seeing gains by at least 10 percent or 500 calories...wasn't sure how this worked out, if someone can help me out with that it would be greatly appreciated.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Doesn't gluconeogenesis only occur in a glycogen depleted state? ie ketosis. Why would the body waste the time to convert excess protein to Glucose if its glycogen stores are full?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Proteins are broken down to amino acids which are used in the body. Excess would be converted to sugar or fat.

Big G · 11-15-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecwholic

Just wanted to know, I heard to up my calories within 2 weeks or so if I stop seeing gains by at least 10 percent or 500 calories...wasn't sure how this worked out, if someone can help me out with that it would be greatly appreciated.

ecw... I already discussed this in great length in reply to your PM. Stop thinking so much and just eat! if you start getting fat eat less. if yuo're not getting fat eat more. This isn't freakin' rocket science here!

Big G · 11-15-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

I personally don't see a need for 2g of Protein per lb. That is ridiculously expensive.

Where the hell are you shopping Iain!?

PROTEIN
Turkey - 33¢/lb
Chicken breast - $1.70/lb
Doz. eggs - $1.39
PP - 66¢ srvng

CARBS
Grn beans - $1.99/lb
Broccoli - $3.49/lb
Cauliflower - $3.99ea.
Bread (Ezekiel): $3.49/24oz

FAT
Almonds - $6.99/lb
Heavy cream - $4.99/qt

i.e. Pound-for pound protein is very cheap food, plus the body uses a lot of calories converting excess protein to sugar/fat (similar to thermic effect). Reducing my priotein intake from 2g/lb to 1g/lb would reduce me from 6oz chicken per meal (for example) to 3oz . That'd suck.

The National Kidney Association has conducted numerous tests with significantly large samples to prove that up to 3g protein per 1lb LBM has no negative effect on healthy kidneys, assuming suitable levels of water intake.

I don't see any reason to limit protein.

10-03-2007, 11:46 PM	#1
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75	Too much protein? I was playing around with diet stats on fitday and noticed that my diet with a homemade weight gainer would consist of 347 grams of protein, at 160 lbs, if I were to consume this much protein, would it be a problem?
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75

10-03-2007, 11:55 PM	#2
vortrit Bulk. Cut. Repeat. Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 2,652 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 5	That much protein seem rather pointless...
	My Journal!

10-07-2007, 11:49 PM	#5
Jodi Moderator Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,260 Photos: 1	That's a bit excessive doncha think? You don't really need anymore than 50G of protein at one sitting.
	Essence EFA

11-04-2007, 03:22 PM	#9
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75	here was the stats on fitday: Total: 3417 Fat: 77 693 21% Sat: 14 127 4% Poly: 15 131 4% Mono: 30 266 8% Carbs: 394 1376 42% Fiber: 50 0 0% Protein: 298 1191 37% Alcohol: 0 0 0% I'm trying to bulk up, I cut the protein down some, would I be okay going with that much protein?
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75

11-04-2007, 06:53 PM	#10
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,106	What was your caloric in take and diet like prior to this?
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

10-04-2007, 07:54 AM	#4
Tier Your Pretend Friend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 765	As long as your ok with a good portion of that turning in to fat

10-08-2007, 12:02 AM	#6
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,061 Photos: 1	If that is per day...its still a little high, but if that is per meal then a total waste.

10-08-2007, 08:40 AM	#8
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,061 Photos: 1	I guess we don't really have all the info to help....you don't mention how much fat or carbs you are consuming daily. For a person your size you probably do not use all that protein in a day. If you are not burning it off then you will store it..

11-04-2007, 08:14 PM	#11
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75	Unfortunately I'm on my pda typing this, but to briefly sum it up at this moment, I was eating maintainance, around 2700 calories with about 70g of fat, 300 g of carbs, and 230g of protein, it was a health diet with lots of veggies, right kind of fat, complex carbs, etc.
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75

11-05-2007, 07:36 AM	#12
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,106	Bump up your cals by 10% and monitor for a couple of weeks. I wouldn't suggest randomly choosing a cal intake. Do it methodically and learn.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

11-08-2007, 08:12 PM	#13
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75	Well, I've managed to put together a diet of 269g of protein over a span of a day, that in a safer range?
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75

11-10-2007, 07:39 PM	#14
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,214 Photos: 1	I'm 6'2", 184lb and regularly take in 350-400g of protein daily as part of a 3,500-4,000cal diet. The national kidney foundation has done studies on individuals up to 3g of protein per 1lb of weight and found no problems for those with healthy kidney function. It's important that you take in plenty of water while consuming this much protein. It's not pointless and it won't turn to fat as suggested above. If you're training hard you will be doing a significant amount of damage to your muscles and your body will readily utilize any available protein to repair and maintenance. I'm 23lb up from March'07 and my abs look damned similar to the way they did back then, so I'm not gaining much in the way of bodyfat. Iain has good advice... adjust your calories and see what happens. Don't make any alarming changes (e.g. 2000-3000cal overnight), do it gradually. My guess is you'd be surprised how many calories you can use. Increase your calories over the next 2weeks to 3,500 and stick to that for a month. The scale will probably take an alarming jump as you carb up, but I bet you'll just gain weight steadily after that with minimal, if any, body fat accumulation. Remember... you need to eat more than enough for optimal hypertrophy so some bodyfat accumulation is to be expected. If you're not getting fatter week fter week on 2,500cal you're proably not maintaining; you're starving yourself. Up your calories and see how it goes. My guess is that you could pack away 4,000cal+ if you're active. You're young and, if you eat regularly (at the very most every 3hours) you'll burn though them. Be smart though. Don't eat 3pc bread before bed every night and expect to stay lean. Reduce your carbs nearer to bed time. Nothing starchy after 4-5pm. No bread, rice, pasta, sweetpot, yams, corn etc. You don't need a boat-load of carbs while you're sleeping. Carb up in the morning with whole grain bread, milk, fruit etc so you've got energy for the day ahead (incl. the gym!). If you're hungry in the evenings eat a truckload of green veg. The Thermic Effect of Food will burn off most of the calories just trying to extract the calories from the veg. Additionally, if the body is starved of carbs and has more than enough protein it can convert the protein to sugar via gluconeogenesis. This process itself requires the burning of calories so, again, you're burning a lot of calories trying to extract calories from your food (hence you can eat more). Anyway... If you're not gaining some fat, you're not eating enough. And, as you get bigger, your bigger muscles are going to require more food. At 184lb I'm honestly wondering if I could eat 4,500cal daily. I'm certainly not getting fat on almost 4,000so I'll probably up it a bit, wait a month, and look in the mirror. The mirror is the best judge of all, if you ask me! Screw calipers and scales. Just look in the mirror. Are you losing definition? How quickly is it happening? If it's happening fast drop your calories a little. If it's not happening, eat more! If it's already happened to the point that you don;t like what you see any more, crop your calories way back for a while, run-run-run and cut some of that body fat off. Any strength losses will come back fairly quickly, I promise you. Muscles have memory.
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-13-2007, 05:04 PM	#15
Elson blabbermouth Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 69	too much protein = expensive pee

11-13-2007, 06:49 PM	#16
Big G Gettin' Diesel. Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cols,OH. It sucks. Posts: 1,214 Photos: 1	too little protein = sub-optimal growth. I can afford to pee a dollar or two here or there!
	Goal...... DL:500lb, Sqt:400lb, Bnch:300lb Current.. DL:375lb, Sqt:335lb, Bnch:260lb Weight: 185lb (up 25lb), bf=15%ish Age:35 Training since 11/06 journal

11-14-2007, 06:42 PM	#21
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,106	Proteins are broken down to amino acids which are used in the body. Excess would be converted to sugar or fat. I personally don't see a need for 2g of Protein per lb. That is ridiculously expensive.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

11-14-2007, 08:49 PM	#23
Jodi Moderator Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,260 Photos: 1	If the excess calories are from any macro, it will store them.
	Essence EFA

11-15-2007, 01:15 AM	#24
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75	Just wanted to know, I heard to up my calories within 2 weeks or so if I stop seeing gains by at least 10 percent or 500 calories...wasn't sure how this worked out, if someone can help me out with that it would be greatly appreciated.
ecwholic Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 75

11-15-2007, 12:09 PM	#28
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator