Extreme cut....

**goob** · 10-11-2007, 09:11 AM

This is hypothetical, before you all start getting uppity, I don't think (or hope) anyone is stupid enough to be try it. Although, I have heard of regimes that are similar.

But, I'm curious to the effects of:

Eating a sub 1000 calorie a day diet of clean foods, and doing HIIT (or steady state) cardio 3 times a week.

Obviously, you would lose muscle, but if you did'nt care, would doing cardio while in starvation mode make you lose a lot of fat very quickly?

**DOMS** · 10-11-2007, 10:02 AM

I take it that you mean 1000 cals below maintenance?

A few questions:

Would you forego any weight training?
How long would you do this for?
Would you really eat 100% clean?
Based on your metabolism, would the fat stay off if you started to eat and workout again?

**tucker01** · 10-11-2007, 10:06 AM

Over a short period. I don't see a problem trying it.

I would expect Lethargy, significant drop in weights lifted. Try to maintain a lifting routine.

Keep the protein intake up.

I am sure there would be a significant lose of weight. Glycogen levels would probably drop, so expect so type of rebound when the Glycogen levels increase.

**goob** · 10-11-2007, 10:11 AM

For the record, I will definately not be doing this in any way or form. I'm just curious to see what would happen, and what others think the effects would be.

Ok,
* You keep weight training. 3 x a week. Nothing too major.
* Eat 100 % clean
* 1 month duration.
* 1000+ calories below maintanence, i.e, if 2000 = maintanence, 800-1000 calories would be your intake. Largely protein.

**Jodi** · 10-11-2007, 10:11 AM

Are you talking PSMF?

**DOMS** · 10-11-2007, 10:12 AM

Aren't there other things, like supplements, that he can take to help mitigate muscle loss? I read about them, but I don't do cuts and I don't lose much muscle during layoffs, so I didn't commit them to memory. Stuff like aminos?

**goob** · 10-11-2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Are you talking PSMF?

Actually, on the balance, you just joged my memory. Yes, indeed this could be interpretted as PSMF.

**Jodi** · 10-11-2007, 10:56 AM

BCAA's and Free Form EAA's would help a lot!

I think it's safe to do so long as you follow the PSMF guidelines which include refeeds.

**goob** · 10-11-2007, 11:32 AM

Ok guys thanks for the responses.

Has anyone actually tried PSMF?

**Jodi** · 10-11-2007, 12:03 PM

Yes, I've done it in the past several times. It's not fun.

**AKIRA** · 10-11-2007, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jodi

Are you talking PSMF?

Whats the acronym mean?

**tucker01** · 10-11-2007, 12:07 PM

Protein Sparring Modified Fast

**P-funk** · 10-11-2007, 12:10 PM

that high of intensity on cardio, that frequently in the training week would really be dependant on your overall resistance training.

IN general, I feel that most people put themselves in a hypo-caloric state and do to much HIIT cardio and end up shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. Balance and proper planning is key.

**Witchblade** · 10-11-2007, 12:16 PM

I think what you're doing now should shed the fat quickly.

**AKIRA** · 10-11-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Witchblade

I think what you're doing now should shed the fat quickly.

Yeah his workouts are....nuts. However, he said he was just jerking around this idea.

**vortrit** · 10-11-2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Witchblade

I think what you're doing now should shed the fat quickly.

Agreed on that. Goob has some really great workouts.

**goob** · 10-12-2007, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by P-funk

that high of intensity on cardio, that frequently in the training week would really be dependant on your overall resistance training.

IN general, I feel that most people put themselves in a hypo-caloric state and do to much HIIT cardio and end up shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. Balance and proper planning is key.

How do you mean? Are you saying doing too much cardio on a hypo caloric state will put you into a starvation mode senario?

**goob** · 10-12-2007, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Witchblade

I think what you're doing now should shed the fat quickly.

Originally Posted by Akira

Yeah his workouts are....nuts. However, he said he was just jerking around this idea

Originally Posted by Vortit

Agreed on that. Goob has some really great workouts.

Haha, thanks guys, although you guys do better workouts than me, I just like throwing in some 'different' stuff!

**P-funk** · 10-12-2007, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by goob

How do you mean? Are you saying doing too much cardio on a hypo caloric state will put you into a starvation mode senario?

I am saying that intense leg training and then intense cardio (which also really works the lower extremity and breaks down tissue) in a hypocaloric state...can create issue with losing some leg mass, poor recovery between training bouts, burn out, overal fatigue and rundown (IE, overtraining).

The training should be balanced and interval work can be done without moving into balls to the wall HIIT all the time....

People seem to think that because it is interval training, you can just go in and go balls out all the time becase...well, it is cardio! The problem is that this would be like saying you could go into the gym and hit 1RM squats (high intensity) all the time. Obviously at some point sooner or later, something is going to give (and usually that it is going to be sooner than later....especially when in a caloric deficit).

**goob** · 10-14-2007, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by P-funk

I am saying that intense leg training and then intense cardio (which also really works the lower extremity and breaks down tissue) in a hypocaloric state...can create issue with losing some leg mass, poor recovery between training bouts, burn out, overal fatigue and rundown (IE, overtraining).

The training should be balanced and interval work can be done without moving into balls to the wall HIIT all the time....

People seem to think that because it is interval training, you can just go in and go balls out all the time becase...well, it is cardio! The problem is that this would be like saying you could go into the gym and hit 1RM squats (high intensity) all the time. Obviously at some point sooner or later, something is going to give (and usually that it is going to be sooner than later....especially when in a caloric deficit).

That makes a lot of sense. So effectively on the PMSF type regime, HIIT would be best cut down to 1 day a week, with steady state for the other 2 sessions cut to under 30 minutes a time.
Overtraining is not something I'd care to get, overreaching slightly perhaps, but nothing more.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

**P-funk** · 10-14-2007, 07:57 AM

It doesn't have to be steady state cardio though. It can be intveral work. Just not full on all out balls to the wall intervals.

**goob** · 10-14-2007, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by P-funk

It doesn't have to be steady state cardio though. It can be intveral work. Just not full on all out balls to the wall intervals.

Sounds good. Max effort once a week, steady state once a week, light intervals once a week. That'll take care of the cardio.

Thanks P-Funk!

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