5 days cut, 5 days bulk: effective?

Witchblade · 12-18-2007, 07:19 AM

I'm looking for information on the effectiveness of short cutting and bulking phases, say 5 days, compared to longer phases where you have a longer transitional period. I imagine you lose more weight, both muscle and fat, with the short phases, as you cut your calories down a lot very suddenly and bump them back up very fast too.

Articles, personal experiences etc. welcome. Jodi and Iain's opinion welcome in particular.

**IainDaniel** · 12-18-2007, 07:21 AM

What are you trying to achieve by doing this?

Witchblade · 12-18-2007, 08:15 AM

Cutting and bulking at the 'same' time. Or staying lean while putting on mass. I'm on a regular cut ATM though, slowly dropping calories. I've read some articles about short phases being more effective, but I'm a bit sceptical about it.

**IainDaniel** · 12-18-2007, 02:22 PM

I have never seen anything that short of a period. What would the defecit and surplus be like. I am skeptical on the progress made.

Personally I think 3-4 week periods work better.

Witchblade · 12-18-2007, 02:59 PM

I think in the article they said 500 above and 500 below maintenance, so that's a 1000 calorie jump.

What kind of transitional period would you use for a 4 week bulk 4 week cut program? One week maintenance, none?

Nate K · 12-18-2007, 03:24 PM

a few day maintenance

juggernaut · 12-18-2007, 03:44 PM

honestly, WB. I dont really see all the effort into getting some if at all minimal gains. This sounds like a M&F ragazine article. Can you show us the source? I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, it just sounds...bizarre?

Witchblade · 12-18-2007, 08:07 PM

It's not a single source, I've read about it multiple times. I don't have the articles at hand, hence the thread, but I know there was an article about it at ironmagazine.com (main site) and I believe someone mentioned it in an interview at T-Nation. The reasoning was something like: short phases eliminate the need for refeeds and other cycling methods, make it impossible for your body to rapidly adapt and stagnate and the vigorous changes in calories would somehow create a very responsive hormonal environment at every transition.

My counterarguments would be that your body actually needs time to adjust else you're burning too much muscle and putting on too much fat in the cutting and bulking phases respectively.

**P-funk** · 12-19-2007, 06:58 AM

i think you would have to do the phases for longer in order for adaptations to calorie changes to take place and illicit the gains that you want to see.

juggernaut · 12-19-2007, 07:03 AM

that's what i was thining

DiGiTaL · 12-20-2007, 12:00 AM

Wouldn't this be like maintaining weight?. You lose the weight, then gain it back.

**Jodi** · 12-24-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

i think you would have to do the phases for longer in order for adaptations to calorie changes to take place and illicit the gains that you want to see.

Yeah I agree! I've done 2 week cuts though, maintenance or bulk for 2 weeks then back to 2 week cuts but I think 5 days is way too few days to adapt.

XFatMan · 12-25-2007, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jodi

Yeah I agree! I've done 2 week cuts though, maintenance or bulk for 2 weeks then back to 2 week cuts but I think 5 days is way too few days to adapt.

And what's your experience / opinion, does it work? Would be cool to try, I guess.

juggernaut · 12-31-2007, 01:54 PM

hey jodi, that was a great game against the Giants the other day.

cider303 · 01-01-2008, 10:56 PM

i think you are better off stretching it to the 2 weeks like jodi said. i personnally respond better to 3 weeks of a certain stimulus so i would even suggest 3/3/3

first4muscle · 01-02-2008, 08:00 AM

Hi mate

i personally have never heard of anyone cutting or bulking for such short periods of time and imo would doubt its effectiveness. Im sure there would also be some health concerns also as not allowing the body to adapt to one program over a lengthier period of time

12-18-2007, 07:19 AM	#1
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,476 Photos: 2	5 days cut, 5 days bulk: effective? I'm looking for information on the effectiveness of short cutting and bulking phases, say 5 days, compared to longer phases where you have a longer transitional period. I imagine you lose more weight, both muscle and fat, with the short phases, as you cut your calories down a lot very suddenly and bump them back up very fast too. Articles, personal experiences etc. welcome. Jodi and Iain's opinion welcome in particular.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

12-18-2007, 07:21 AM	#2
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,113	What are you trying to achieve by doing this?
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

12-18-2007, 08:15 AM	#3
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,476 Photos: 2	Cutting and bulking at the 'same' time. Or staying lean while putting on mass. I'm on a regular cut ATM though, slowly dropping calories. I've read some articles about short phases being more effective, but I'm a bit sceptical about it.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

12-18-2007, 02:22 PM	#4
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 16,113	I have never seen anything that short of a period. What would the defecit and surplus be like. I am skeptical on the progress made. Personally I think 3-4 week periods work better.
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

12-18-2007, 02:59 PM	#5
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,476 Photos: 2	I think in the article they said 500 above and 500 below maintenance, so that's a 1000 calorie jump. What kind of transitional period would you use for a 4 week bulk 4 week cut program? One week maintenance, none?
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

12-18-2007, 03:24 PM	#6
Nate K Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,686 Photos: 3	a few day maintenance

12-18-2007, 03:44 PM	#7
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	honestly, WB. I dont really see all the effort into getting some if at all minimal gains. This sounds like a M&F ragazine article. Can you show us the source? I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, it just sounds...bizarre?
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

12-18-2007, 08:07 PM	#8
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 4,476 Photos: 2	It's not a single source, I've read about it multiple times. I don't have the articles at hand, hence the thread, but I know there was an article about it at ironmagazine.com (main site) and I believe someone mentioned it in an interview at T-Nation. The reasoning was something like: short phases eliminate the need for refeeds and other cycling methods, make it impossible for your body to rapidly adapt and stagnate and the vigorous changes in calories would somehow create a very responsive hormonal environment at every transition. My counterarguments would be that your body actually needs time to adjust else you're burning too much muscle and putting on too much fat in the cutting and bulking phases respectively.
	My Linkdump [LSFW] IM Official FAQ [WORK IN PROGRESS]

12-19-2007, 06:58 AM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,789	i think you would have to do the phases for longer in order for adaptations to calorie changes to take place and illicit the gains that you want to see.
	My Blog.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

12-19-2007, 07:03 AM	#10
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	that's what i was thining
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

12-20-2007, 12:00 AM	#11
DiGiTaL .::.:: Legend ::.::. Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ca Posts: 930	Wouldn't this be like maintaining weight?. You lose the weight, then gain it back.
	Stats: Weight: 190lbs \| Height: 5'11 \| BF: 14% My Journal

12-31-2007, 01:54 PM	#14
juggernaut hybrid of machine & skin Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mars Posts: 4,148 Photos: 2	hey jodi, that was a great game against the Giants the other day.
	Eat well, train daily, die anyway.

01-01-2008, 10:56 PM	#15
cider303 go big or go home Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mass/Conn Posts: 139 Photos: 2	i think you are better off stretching it to the 2 weeks like jodi said. i personnally respond better to 3 weeks of a certain stimulus so i would even suggest 3/3/3
	Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.

01-02-2008, 08:00 AM	#16
first4muscle Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6	Hi mate i personally have never heard of anyone cutting or bulking for such short periods of time and imo would doubt its effectiveness. Im sure there would also be some health concerns also as not allowing the body to adapt to one program over a lengthier period of time
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