Originally Posted by ptwannabe

Just some things that came into my mind while I was bored today.

Is it all up to genetics how you will grow no matter how solid of a workout routine and diet you have? I'd say to an extent genetic makeup plays a role in how easily people grow muscle. check out this wikipedia link. People are going to be born with a propensity to be more muscular or 'round'. But no, genetics do not dictate it all. Some people put on muscle more easily than others. But just because you don't put on it EASY doesn't mean that even if you train hard and eat right you CAN'T put on muscle or lose weight. Otherwise I'd be in trouble because I come from a family of fatties.

Do all the body builders/insanely muscular guys use steroids? Some do, yeah. I don't think they ALL do.

How long does it take to get results like a body builder for one who doesn't take steroids but takes normal supplements like creatine, whey, and has a clean-solid diet? Depends on how serious of a change your talking about. If you're talking about body fat % that's in the low single digits and muscles that EXPLODE off your body... I'd say a few years... not that I have ANY experience with it, but those guys work DAMN hard for that muscle and it takes a long time to get there even if they are genetically blessed.

I dunno I was just thinking about the last few years and wondering if its worth it, eating only clean foods and working out religiously. I've put so much work into it and only to have so little to show for it. This has really made me think about steroids, I know its normal now and so many people do steroids but I don't know if I want to reach my goals like that. How long have you been working at it?

Does it usually take a long time to see major results? Could it just be genetics in why I haven't seen results like others do in there first years of lifting? Usually when people are asking this question the answer is usually they're doing one or more of three things wrong. 1) Not eating enough (assuming already on a clean eating diet) 2) doing too much cardio and burning up all their hard-earned muscle on the treadmill 3) their lifestyle is messed up (i.e. they say they work out and eat healthy, but they also drink or smoke or don't get enough sleep every night. All these are important, as I'm sure you already know.

If you guys could critique my bulking routine I'd really appreciate it for the next time I bulk up right after I finish this current one. I'm on Bill Starr's 5x5 program right now. I've missed two Friday workouts in week 4 and 5 which really fucked things up I went from 173 to 169 which was lower than when I started, I also lost my bench and squat gains too. I'm also on a bulk right now. I'll try and offer you some advice I've picked up from other people. OK, so you work out religiously but you've missed 2 friday workouts in a row? I'd say this would go under the aforementioned 3). You need to change your lifestyle around to make sure you work out on those Fridays, if that is really what is causing you to lose your gains.

Stats:
Age: 17
Weight: 171.3 lbs
Height: 5'10"
Bench: 230
Squat: 260
Dead-lift: 270
BF%: was like 10% but I'm sure its around 13% now
Goals
-Mainly strength and size
-Specifically I'd like to get up around 185 and get my bench, squat, and DL up around 30 more lbs atleast.

and I don't know if this could change any advice given but I'm mainly bulking up right now for football I've said this in like 5 other threads but my school is moving up from 6-man to 11-man and we lack size, we don't even have an offensive line. If you're bulking then that's probably why your BF% is up. I'm bulking and am noticing that my pants don't fit as loose as they did before. That's fine though because when my bulk is done I'll cut that extra fat off likitysplit.

I have two different workout days because I had to give the squat rack I was using back to my school and now I have to get up at 6:00am on Monday and Friday to use it and on wed I don't do squats so I can workout at home. Haha, enjoy it while you have it easy. I get up at 5am to work out before a 9-hr work day.

Workout Day (A)
5:50am Take True Mass
6:00am Take X-ceed where are your pre-workout carbs?
6:30-7:30 Workout
7:30 Take Purple Wraath + Multi Vitamin + True Mass post w/o carbs?
9:30 Eat 6 egg whites, 3 yolks, 2 piece toast w/ honey and walnuts I'd eat fewer yolks and more whites. the yolks have tons of saturated fat.
12:45 Eat 2 Chicken Breasts and 3/4 cup Rice green veggies?
3:50 Eat plain Turkey Sandwich and 1/2 cup toasted almonds
7:00 Eat Flank Steak or spaghetti or 2 chicken breasts with some greens I'd stay away from pasta unless it's whole wheat pasta and reinforced with omega protein... even then i'd eat it in LIMITED quantities
10:00 Either 2 spoon fulls of PB with 3/4 cup cottage cheese or 5 egg whites with Flank steak and 1/2 cup cottage cheese nice. i like the cottage cheese. but is it fat free?

Workout Day (B)
7:00am Eat 6 egg whites, 3 yolk, 2 pc toast w/ honey and walnuts
9:55am Eat Turkey Sandwich and 3/4 cup almonds
1:00pm Eat 2 chicken breast and 3/4 cup rice
3:30pm True mass 3 scoop
4:00pm X-ceed
4:30-5:30 workout
5:30 Purple Wraath, Multi Vitamin, and True Mass 3 scoop
7:00 Eat Flank Steak or spaghetti or 2 chicken breasts with some greens
10:00 Either 2 spoon fulls of PB with 3/4 cup cottage cheese or 5 egg whites with Flank steak and 1/2 cup cottage cheese
again, less yolks.. where's the pre and post work out carbs? green veggies?

Off-day
7:00am Eat 6 egg whites, 3 yolk, 2 pc toast w/ honey and walnuts
9:55am Eat Turkey Sandwich and 3/4 cup almonds
1:00pm Eat 2 chicken breast and 3/4 cup rice
4:00pm Purple Wraath + multi vitamins
4:30 Either same as 1:00pm meal or PB, Banana, and walnut sandwich
7:00 Eat Flank Steak or spaghetti or 2 chicken breasts with some greens
10:00 Either 2 spoon fulls of PB with 3/4 cup cottage cheese or 5 egg whites with Flank steak and 1/2 cup cottage cheese
again, less yolks.. where's the pre and post work out carbs? green veggies?

I plan to do a bulk right after this using Bill Starr's 5x5 again now that I have experienced what it is like I think I will at least have everything down workout wise. I'm just worried about my body getting use to the workout and plateauing the entire time.
it's true eventually your body will adapt to whatever workout routine or diet you're on. if you hit a plateau.. change something up. start eating more for a week or two... or increase your reps at a slightly lower weight for a bit and then head back to the heavy stuff.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by nadirmg

I've inserted some of my comments in bold in your quote above.

My overall advice to you, dude. Is to start a journal and start logging what your goals are. What your gains and backslides are. People there (myself included) are very friendly and willing to give advice and encouragement and we've all started with a list of goals too (I've actually only JUST started). But it takes time and commitment to see the change I think you're talking about. Start journal and hang in there.
You're goals aren't easy ones and so, unfortunately, there is no easy or simple solution to it other than hard work and commitment over time. Fad diets and supps are not everything. This article on T-nation.com might be helpful to you. Notice where supps are on the top (least important) and diet is at the bottom (all-important).

One more thing. Do you have any idea how many calories you're actually eating everyday? I'm usually surprised how even though I'm eating six meals a day it doesn't really add up to much. Try FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal. Record what you eat and you might see something you've forgotten to take into account.

Good luck and I hope we see you in the journals before long

Originally Posted by ptwannabe

I will have been working at it for 3 years this summer now. My pre and post workout carbs come from the True-Mass it has 80g carbs per serving, And I think we have some broccoli I can eat raw in some of my meals. I can say for sure that I am getting 3200 calories + a day and my bulking calorie needs are 3100-3400, the majority of my calories come from solid foods, only around 1500 from true mass. And also I left this off but the reason I missed 2 fridays in a row was because I was in a life guard class the first friday getting certified and then I had a "high-school retreat" thing that I was forced to go on and I do beleive that is what caused me to lose my gains that and I didn't get my normal diet in that first friday and wednsday-friday on the next week. Thanks for the advice man.