How much eggs are safe?

ASHESdIVIDE · 04-12-2008, 01:31 PM

I eat anywheres from 5 to 9 WHOLE eggs a day, usualy about 2 raw with shakes and 5-7 cooked ones, I was just reading up on eggs and the safe amount they recommend is 1 a day, I'm trying to bulk and add as much mass as possible, what do you suggest?

danzik17 · 04-12-2008, 03:23 PM

Personally I would cut that to 2-3, but I don't know for sure. That is a LOT of fat though and it is most likely omega 6 fats. You need to replace a lot of (read most) of that with omega 3 fats or you will run into trouble down the road.

Also don't you get sick from the raw eggs?

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 03:30 PM

Eat 'em cooked - avidin interferes a little with biotin absorption and it's deactivated when cooked.

Eat as many as you wish - the yolks are an excellent source of healthy saturated fat.

danzik17 · 04-12-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Eat 'em cooked - avadin interferes a little with biotin absorption and it's deactivated when cooked.

Eat as many as you wish - the yolks are an excellent source of healthy saturated fat.

I wouldn't say as many as you wish. There is a lot of fat in each yolk, and I'm sure you know that a severe imbalance of n3:n6 fats leads to problems like high cholesterol for example. If you're eating 9 whole eggs a day, that's something like 99g of n6 fats (assuming they're not omega 3 supplemented). There is no way you are going to balance that out.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 04:18 PM

USDA nutrient database
9 large large whole eggs

Energy 644 kcal
Protein 56.61g
Total lipid (fat) 44.73g
Carbohydrate 3.46g
Fatty acids, total saturated 13.946g
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated 17.145g
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated 6.138g

Okay - so there are about 6g of total polyunsaturated fat (omega 6 is a poly) in nine large eggs.

Examining further:

[eggs.ca] [Nutrition -Nutrition and Health]

9 large whole eggs
Fat 45.0
Omega-6 6.3
Omega-3 0.4
Monounsaturated 18.0
Saturated 13.5
Cholesterol 1710

Contrast this with 9 Omega-3 Eggs:
Fat 44.1
Omega-6 6.3
Omega-3 3.6
Monounsaturated 14.4
Saturated 10.8
Cholesterol 1665

So there are about three and a half grams of omega-3 in nine omega-3 eggs.
You get 3g of combined EPA/DHA in 10g fish oil - about two teaspoons.

Eat your eggs. You're fine.

danzik17 · 04-12-2008, 04:41 PM

Interesting. The nutritional information on the eggs I buy lists fat as being much higher.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 05:00 PM

Fat and fatty acids aren't the same thing.

Dietary fat is actually triglyceride - a glycerol with three fatty acids bound to it. The fatty acids don't weigh as much as the total fat does because the triglyceride isn't included in the total.

Make sense?

ArnoldsProtege · 04-12-2008, 05:13 PM

I eat 2-4 whole eggs a day, and I have been for a few months now. I just went to my doctor for a physical and asked him about it, and he said its perfectly fine. The results of the physical came back, and my cholesterol levels are very healthy and im overal a perfect specimen of health lol. Although people are different, I eat tonnes of eggs and im perfect. If anything, id avoid the raw.

**Biggly** · 04-12-2008, 07:39 PM

The omega ratio is important but not huge as there's nothing stopping you getting your omega 3 from another source.

The cholesterol issue is way over-hyped. Your body produces its own if you don't eat any, whereas how much you eat has very little effect on blood levels.

High cholesterol levels are more of a symptom of some other issue that merely the result of eating the stuff. Too many carbs will raise your levels faster than eating eggs due to the glyc.. gl... the damage done by sugar, however you spell it. High levels of sugar are pretty toxic so your body coats your arteries with calcium and cholesterol to protect them from the sugar.

Every day there seems to be fresh evidence that the whole "don't eat cholesterol! Clog ya arteries!" stuff is mistaken.

However regarding fat levels purely from a calorie point of view 7 whole eggs is pretty high. Not huge if you're not eating any other form of fat but as you certainly are you're pushing it a little on the fat calories. While a ratio of omega 3 to 6 at 1:1 is ideal you don't have to go there but you should ensure some extra omega 3, from fish oil or flax or somewhere.

Something such as 6 eggs a day, with only 2 or 3 whole would be better than what you're doing at present. But no, you don't have to run away from eggs. The idea of 1 a day is a bit ridiculous to be honest, that's 1980s bullshit.

As for raw, yes, can be a problem but the actual odds of you getting sick are extremely slim. As a healthy adult it's not likely to kill you anyway

B.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Too many carbs will raise your levels faster than eating eggs due to the glyc.. gl... the damage done by sugar, however you spell it. High levels of sugar are pretty toxic so your body coats your arteries with calcium and cholesterol to protect them from the sugar.

This is interesting. My understanding is that the storage hormone insulin responds to elevated levels of blood glucose in order to prevent this from happening.
I'd like to read more about this coating phenomenon due to elevated sugar. Is this something that happens in healthy individuals, or only in diabetics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Every day there seems to be fresh evidence that the whole "don't eat cholesterol! Clog ya arteries!" stuff is mistaken.

However regarding fat levels purely from a calorie point of view 7 whole eggs is pretty high. Not huge if you're not eating any other form of fat but as you certainly are you're pushing it a little on the fat calories.

If the the OP's calories are in line with his goals, why would it matter if the fat calories are high?

For example, I'm cutting right now, running on average about 1800 calories.
I had 92g of fat yesterday. Keeps me feeling fed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

While a ratio of omega 3 to 6 at 1:1 is ideal you don't have to go there but you should ensure some extra omega 3, from fish oil or flax or somewhere.

Flax, no. But agree 100% on the fish oil - I take 10g a day myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Something such as 6 eggs a day, with only 2 or 3 whole would be better than what you're doing at present. But no, you don't have to run away from eggs. The idea of 1 a day is a bit ridiculous to be honest, that's 1980s bullshit.

As for raw, yes, can be a problem but the actual odds of you getting sick are extremely slim. As a healthy adult it's not likely to kill you anyway

B.

As I mentioned, the bigger issue is avidin, but even it is of minor concern - unless you're drinking raw egg white by the quart!

**Biggly** · 04-12-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

insulin responds to elevated levels of blood glucose in order to prevent this from happening.

Responds yes, like an ambulance to something that already happened.

Quote:

If the the OP's calories are in line with his goals, why would it matter if the fat calories are high?

Depends on his goals. If muscle mass is an issue fat calories are a waste of potential protein and carb calories. At any set calorie level you can only squeeze in certain amounts of the macro groups, so you need to choose that ratio carefully. Fat is great for satiety and fullness but not much else. Carbs for energy and workouts, protein for building new tissue. You certainly shouldn't cut out fats, they do have some uses such as triggering testosterone production but you don't need much. However if working out you DO need plenty of carbs and you DO need plenty of protein to grow extra muscle tissue. It's not so much that fat is bad as that there is not much room for it within a restricted calorie level.

I'll typically eat around 75 grams of fats, total. Many people would say that's too high but I'm happy with it. If he's getting around 40g from eggs that's more than half before eating anything else. As meat is usually pretty high for bodybuilders and always contains some fat, you have to be careful with it is all.

Most bodybuilders would choose even less fat and higher carbs that what I eat but I know from experience I'm carb senstive.

As for flax I'd agree it's not as good as fish oil (and has to be flax oil or ground, not just seeds) but it does supply omega 3, just in the ALA version so your body has to process it. Some people just can't stand fish, even as capsules.

Fishy burps just don't do it for some people.

B.

nadirmg · 04-12-2008, 09:01 PM

sweet. i'm going to start eating more of those yolks i throw away everyday. that'll save me from having to buy/eat more chicken.

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Responds yes, like an ambulance to something that already happened.

Right - but that's a good thing, isn't it? I mean, chronically elevated levels of insulin lead to systemic inflammation.

I don't see a citation to read. I'm really interested to read more on this. Please, indulge me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Depends on his goals. If muscle mass is an issue fat calories are a waste of potential protein and carb calories.

Howso? Suppose someone has 3000 calories a day as maintenance calories, and carries 150 lbs lbm.

There really isn't going to be any particular benefit from going more than 150g from protein, and the carbs, well, there's that insulin thing you mentioned above...

Seriously, the carbs are important to stimulate cortisol-blunting insulin post workout where you need it to shuttle nutrients into the newly damaged muscle cells of course - preferential insulin sensitivity and all that - and of course to promote reglycogenation over the following hours and days. But beyond a certain level those aren't needed either.

As fat as ratios are concerned, well, there's no particular magic to the ratio of carbs to fats to protein - the body cannot do math.

Ultimately, the simplest and most apt approach is to feed your lean mass what it needs - ie no less than a gram of protein and no less than half a gram of fat per pound lean mass is generally agreed upon by the smartest writers in the industry, people like Berardi, McDonald, Cosgrove, Thibaudeau, Ledin and so on - with the rest of your calories being filled up by any combination of protein, carb and fat that suits your comfort and training needs. Many so-called "hard gainers" would be well served to increase fat calories to enhance weight gain. Sure is easier (and cheaper!) than loading up on more and more protein where it isn't required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

At any set calorie level you can only squeeze in certain amounts of the macro groups, so you need to choose that ratio carefully. Fat is great for satiety and fullness but not much else.

Immune function, testosterone production... and of course calories! Yeah, not much else

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Carbs for energy and workouts, protein for building new tissue. You certainly shouldn't cut out fats, they do have some uses such as triggering testosterone production but you don't need much. However if working out you DO need plenty of carbs and you DO need plenty of protein to grow extra muscle tissue. It's not so much that fat is bad as that there is not much room for it within a restricted calorie level.

Like I said, I keep mine high - it's awesome for cutting! I have plenty of room to keep it high - I just cut back on stuff that isn't required. Like starches. Those I simply target around my lifting, and eschew elsewise.

Very comfortable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

I'll typically eat around 75 grams of fats, total. Many people would say that's too high but I'm happy with it. If he's getting around 40g from eggs that's more than half before eating anything else. As meat is usually pretty high for bodybuilders and always contains some fat, you have to be careful with it is all.

Love love love my fats. Mmmmm...

75g would be a low day for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Most bodybuilders would choose even less fat and higher carbs that what I eat but I know from experience I'm carb senstive.

If you're on anabolics, the need for fat goes down. Protein synthesis is enhanced, insulin sensitivity increases, and of course you're injecting your endocrine function lol - for the rest of the humans, gimme my fats, baby!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

As for flax I'd agree it's not as good as fish oil (and has to be flax oil or ground, not just seeds) but it does supply omega 3, just in the ALA version so your body has to process it.
B.

Thing is, if you're a boy (or a woman over, say, thirty or thirty five), you're going to really have trouble doing this conversion. I wrote an article about this, and cited the relevant portion here (Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's))on IM.

But I digress. For all you hard gainers out there - the easy way to boost your gains is to increase your fats.

Eat up!

danzik17 · 04-12-2008, 09:41 PM

Gotta know, just how long have you been at this Built? Pretty impressive knowledgebase. I mean I've been reading these forums and some books for a couple of years now and I still feel like I know nothing. Old paradox about the more you know.....

**Built** · 04-12-2008, 09:53 PM

Hehehe... well shucks...

Thank you - I've been at this for a while I guess.

I was a fat jogger until at the tender age of 38 my doctor put me on the Atkins diet and my co-worker taught me how to train like a man.

I had to throw away everything I thought I knew and start from scratch. I don't have formal training in health science, but I do have two science degrees in research-related areas, so I started reading.

And reading.

What I found was so interesting to me, so useful, that I started writing it all down, so I could remember it and find it - and so I could share it.

As I worked my way through this process, I discovered that "what works" is surprisingly simple - but most people don't get to see what that is because the industry likes to make it more complicated - sells a lot more product, and a lot more PT hours at the gym - but if you concentrate on the broad strokes, it really comes together well:

Eat more than you need, you gain.
Eat less than you need, you lose.

Lift heavy things and you direct calorie traffic. Stick to compound lifts in human movement patterns. Train natural movements and you'll always be able to perform them.

There is nothing natural about a Smith squat.

Eat more than you need and lift heavy, you gain muscle.
Eat less than you need and lift heavy, you risk-manage muscle - and therefore drop fat.

A little cardio is good for your heart, moves metabolites from your lifting out of your muscles, moves blood into them, increases capillary and mitochodrial density... and burns very few, but a few calories.

A lot of cardio burns a few more calories, but stimulates hunger, promotes fast storage in the muscles being used (the muscles learn to pack a lunch...), and risks the conversion of transitional fibres to slow-twitch analogues.

A lot of cardio in a deficit burns muscle and fat.

Do some, but vary it. The goal is to avoid adaptation. For lifting, this means you increase the weight you use. For cardio, this means you vary the modality and the intensity.

Feed yourself protein and fat - the essential macronutrients - as LBM-targeted doses of 1g/lb lean mass for protein and 0.5g/lb lean mass for fat. Fill the rest of your calories to suit, but make sure you get in 25g fibre daily.

There. The keys to the universe. I give them to you for free.

Peace.

**Biggly** · 04-12-2008, 10:13 PM

For the body to dig into its fat stores requires a deficit of available calories. Calories from recovered fat are not used to create muscle, they are used to satisfy immediate energy requirements.

Asides from the hormonal thing which we've both already mentioned, could you explain how dietary fat, an excess of which is immediately stored, helps leans gains?

Again you seem to be concentrating on the slimming aspect instead of bodybuilding, which may or not be appropriate but the guy only asked about eggs. This is not a thread about cardio etc. If you want to make it one start a new thread.

Sticking to dietary fat and how much is too much, or enough, my question is pretty simple. What is the pathway for stored fat to lean mass increase? Please explain because everything I've read says that does not happen.

B.

**Biggly** · 04-12-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

LBM-targeted doses of 1g/lb lean mass for protein and 0.5g/lb lean mass for fat. Fill the rest of your calories to suit

Well the rest of the calories would be carbs. That works out as around 38% protein, 45% carbs and around 18% fat (roughly and yes I know that's 101).

That's quite reasonable, in fact is relatively low fat compared to the average diet, on low calories (I'm going by 11 cals per lb lean m, again just being rough, with a lbm of 160). So one minute you're saying go for high fat, next you're saying low fat?

Quote:

my doctor put me on the Atkins diet

The figures you've given are not either of the 2 stages of the Atkins diet, which is much lower on carbs. Nor would I recommend the Akins diet for bodybuilding.

In my software I use a default ratio (easily changed manually for those that disagree with me) of 35% protein, 30% carbs and 30% fat, so if anything I actually push for higher fat levels than you do. Note though that's calories, not weight (there's more than twice the calories per gram in fat).

More mainstream advice is around 50-60% from carbs, around 30% from protein, 15-20% from fat. Obviously figures change if you're bulking or cutting and lean mass is different from gross weight.

Maybe I'm a little confused, could you clarify for me, are you suggesting Atkins diet or not? High fat, or not?

B.

nadirmg · 04-13-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Gotta know, just how long have you been at this Built? Pretty impressive knowledgebase. I mean I've been reading these forums and some books for a couple of years now and I still feel like I know nothing. Old paradox about the more you know.....

dan, you should check out her blog. she's got several articles that goes into all of this in more depth. i highly recommend

Emmett52 · 04-13-2008, 08:17 AM

so for body fat loss would a ratio of 33/33/33 be better (ie more optimum) than say 40/40/20? have just bought some salmon fillets for dinner today and tomorrow - who says food cant be nice when on what some would call a 'diet', i just wish i had found this site 18 months ago when i started out!

Witchblade · 04-13-2008, 08:25 AM

Another big benefit of fats over carbs is that they slow down digestion and don't spike insulin.

Also, research is pretty vague on whether the relation between fats and testosteron is a threshold or a dose-response curve. I hope it's number two...

On the downside, fats are not protein sparing, like carbs.

All in all, I don't think the exact ratio is that important.

About flax, I don't see what's wrong with it. ALA is an EFA of itself. It doesn't have to be converted to DHA/EPA. Flax also contains vitamins, fiber, protein, and lignans.

nadirmg · 04-13-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmett52

so for body fat loss would a ratio of 33/33/33 be better (ie more optimum) than say 40/40/20? have just bought some salmon fillets for dinner today and tomorrow - who says food cant be nice when on what some would call a 'diet', i just wish i had found this site 18 months ago when i started out!

as long as you're getting at least .5g of fat and 1g of protein per pound of LBM it doesn't really matter what your macros are, as long as you're eating within your calories for the day.

i think built would say that as long as you get the minimum .5g of fat and 1g of protein per pound of LBM, it's how up to you how you eat the rest of your caloric allowance with whatever fits your comfort/needs. once you get the essential amount of fat and protein the rest is just calories in calories out.

check out this article on her blog for more info

nadirmg · 04-13-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

The figures you've given are not either of the 2 stages of the Atkins diet, which is much lower on carbs. Nor would I recommend the Akins diet for bodybuilding.

Maybe I'm a little confused, could you clarify for me, are you suggesting Atkins diet or not? High fat, or not?

B.

jumping in here, but i think if you pay attention to everything she's said you'd see that she STARTED OUT with atkins, but she's not doing atkins anymore. summed up: atkins is a great place to start.

regarding fats, here she says:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Like I said, I keep mine high - it's awesome for cutting! I have plenty of room to keep it high - I just cut back on stuff that isn't required. Like starches. Those I simply target around my lifting, and eschew elsewise.

eating carbs before and after workouts is, imo, a deviation from atkins.
which, though i'm not a rocket scientist, leads me to suspect that she is not advocating the atkins diet per se.

04-12-2008, 01:31 PM	#1
ASHESdIVIDE Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1	How much eggs are safe? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I eat anywheres from 5 to 9 WHOLE eggs a day, usualy about 2 raw with shakes and 5-7 cooked ones, I was just reading up on eggs and the safe amount they recommend is 1 a day, I'm trying to bulk and add as much mass as possible, what do you suggest?

04-12-2008, 03:23 PM	#2
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,489 Blog Entries: 5	Personally I would cut that to 2-3, but I don't know for sure. That is a LOT of fat though and it is most likely omega 6 fats. You need to replace a lot of (read most) of that with omega 3 fats or you will run into trouble down the road. Also don't you get sick from the raw eggs?
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

04-12-2008, 03:30 PM	#3
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 705	Eat 'em cooked - avidin interferes a little with biotin absorption and it's deactivated when cooked. Eat as many as you wish - the yolks are an excellent source of healthy saturated fat. Last edited by Built : 04-12-2008 at 07:59 PM.

04-12-2008, 04:41 PM	#6
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,489 Blog Entries: 5	Interesting. The nutritional information on the eggs I buy lists fat as being much higher.
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

04-12-2008, 05:13 PM	#8
ArnoldsProtege VandelayIndustries Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 195 Photos: 1	I eat 2-4 whole eggs a day, and I have been for a few months now. I just went to my doctor for a physical and asked him about it, and he said its perfectly fine. The results of the physical came back, and my cholesterol levels are very healthy and im overal a perfect specimen of health lol. Although people are different, I eat tonnes of eggs and im perfect. If anything, id avoid the raw.
	Age:18 Height: 5'10 1/2 Weight(work in progress): 210 LB

04-12-2008, 04:18 PM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 705	USDA nutrient database 9 large large whole eggs Energy 644 kcal Protein 56.61g Total lipid (fat) 44.73g Carbohydrate 3.46g Fatty acids, total saturated 13.946g Fatty acids, total monounsaturated 17.145g Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated 6.138g Okay - so there are about 6g of total polyunsaturated fat (omega 6 is a poly) in nine large eggs. Examining further: [eggs.ca] [Nutrition -Nutrition and Health] 9 large whole eggs Fat 45.0 Omega-6 6.3 Omega-3 0.4 Monounsaturated 18.0 Saturated 13.5 Cholesterol 1710 Contrast this with 9 Omega-3 Eggs: Fat 44.1 Omega-6 6.3 Omega-3 3.6 Monounsaturated 14.4 Saturated 10.8 Cholesterol 1665 So there are about three and a half grams of omega-3 in nine omega-3 eggs. You get 3g of combined EPA/DHA in 10g fish oil - about two teaspoons. Eat your eggs. You're fine.

04-12-2008, 05:00 PM	#7
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 705	Fat and fatty acids aren't the same thing. Dietary fat is actually triglyceride - a glycerol with three fatty acids bound to it. The fatty acids don't weigh as much as the total fat does because the triglyceride isn't included in the total. Make sense?

04-12-2008, 07:39 PM	#9
Biggly Nerd Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Borneo Posts: 377 Blog Entries: 1	The omega ratio is important but not huge as there's nothing stopping you getting your omega 3 from another source. The cholesterol issue is way over-hyped. Your body produces its own if you don't eat any, whereas how much you eat has very little effect on blood levels. High cholesterol levels are more of a symptom of some other issue that merely the result of eating the stuff. Too many carbs will raise your levels faster than eating eggs due to the glyc.. gl... the damage done by sugar, however you spell it. High levels of sugar are pretty toxic so your body coats your arteries with calcium and cholesterol to protect them from the sugar. Every day there seems to be fresh evidence that the whole "don't eat cholesterol! Clog ya arteries!" stuff is mistaken. However regarding fat levels purely from a calorie point of view 7 whole eggs is pretty high. Not huge if you're not eating any other form of fat but as you certainly are you're pushing it a little on the fat calories. While a ratio of omega 3 to 6 at 1:1 is ideal you don't have to go there but you should ensure some extra omega 3, from fish oil or flax or somewhere. Something such as 6 eggs a day, with only 2 or 3 whole would be better than what you're doing at present. But no, you don't have to run away from eggs. The idea of 1 a day is a bit ridiculous to be honest, that's 1980s bullshit. As for raw, yes, can be a problem but the actual odds of you getting sick are extremely slim. As a healthy adult it's not likely to kill you anyway B.
	Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

04-12-2008, 09:01 PM	#12
nadirmg hardr bettr fastr strongr Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: hopefully TX soon Posts: 883 Photos: 7	sweet. i'm going to start eating more of those yolks i throw away everyday. that'll save me from having to buy/eat more chicken.
	w/o log 5'5" - currently bulking - 143lb on 5/02 weight goal I: 150 :: flat bench goal II:170 :: squat goal I: 235 :: weighted chin goal II: +20 x 5 x 5

04-12-2008, 09:41 PM	#14
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,489 Blog Entries: 5	Gotta know, just how long have you been at this Built? Pretty impressive knowledgebase. I mean I've been reading these forums and some books for a couple of years now and I still feel like I know nothing. Old paradox about the more you know.....
	Ron Paul 2008 Journal: Boom goes the dynamite

04-12-2008, 09:53 PM	#15
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 705	Hehehe... well shucks... Thank you - I've been at this for a while I guess. I was a fat jogger until at the tender age of 38 my doctor put me on the Atkins diet and my co-worker taught me how to train like a man. I had to throw away everything I thought I knew and start from scratch. I don't have formal training in health science, but I do have two science degrees in research-related areas, so I started reading. And reading. What I found was so interesting to me, so useful, that I started writing it all down, so I could remember it and find it - and so I could share it. As I worked my way through this process, I discovered that "what works" is surprisingly simple - but most people don't get to see what that is because the industry likes to make it more complicated - sells a lot more product, and a lot more PT hours at the gym - but if you concentrate on the broad strokes, it really comes together well: Eat more than you need, you gain. Eat less than you need, you lose. Lift heavy things and you direct calorie traffic. Stick to compound lifts in human movement patterns. Train natural movements and you'll always be able to perform them. There is nothing natural about a Smith squat. Eat more than you need and lift heavy, you gain muscle. Eat less than you need and lift heavy, you risk-manage muscle - and therefore drop fat. A little cardio is good for your heart, moves metabolites from your lifting out of your muscles, moves blood into them, increases capillary and mitochodrial density... and burns very few, but a few calories. A lot of cardio burns a few more calories, but stimulates hunger, promotes fast storage in the muscles being used (the muscles learn to pack a lunch...), and risks the conversion of transitional fibres to slow-twitch analogues. A lot of cardio in a deficit burns muscle and fat. Do some, but vary it. The goal is to avoid adaptation. For lifting, this means you increase the weight you use. For cardio, this means you vary the modality and the intensity. Feed yourself protein and fat - the essential macronutrients - as LBM-targeted doses of 1g/lb lean mass for protein and 0.5g/lb lean mass for fat. Fill the rest of your calories to suit, but make sure you get in 25g fibre daily. There. The keys to the universe. I give them to you for free. Peace.

04-12-2008, 10:13 PM	#16
Biggly Nerd Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Borneo Posts: 377 Blog Entries: 1	For the body to dig into its fat stores requires a deficit of available calories. Calories from recovered fat are not used to create muscle, they are used to satisfy immediate energy requirements. Asides from the hormonal thing which we've both already mentioned, could you explain how dietary fat, an excess of which is immediately stored, helps leans gains? Again you seem to be concentrating on the slimming aspect instead of bodybuilding, which may or not be appropriate but the guy only asked about eggs. This is not a thread about cardio etc. If you want to make it one start a new thread. Sticking to dietary fat and how much is too much, or enough, my question is pretty simple. What is the pathway for stored fat to lean mass increase? Please explain because everything I've read says that does not happen. B.
	Biggly Bodybuilding Software 1/2 price for May "The sensation of hunger can often be alleviated and even mitigated entirely with the consumption of food.[citation needed]" Wiki

04-13-2008, 08:17 AM	#19
Emmett52 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 19	so for body fat loss would a ratio of 33/33/33 be better (ie more optimum) than say 40/40/20? have just bought some salmon fillets for dinner today and tomorrow - who says food cant be nice when on what some would call a 'diet', i just wish i had found this site 18 months ago when i started out!

04-13-2008, 08:25 AM	#20
Witchblade Succinct Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Holland Posts: 3,931	Another big benefit of fats over carbs is that they slow down digestion and don't spike insulin. Also, research is pretty vague on whether the relation between fats and testosteron is a threshold or a dose-response curve. I hope it's number two... On the downside, fats are not protein sparing, like carbs. All in all, I don't think the exact ratio is that important. About flax, I don't see what's wrong with it. ALA is an EFA of itself. It doesn't have to be converted to DHA/EPA. Flax also contains vitamins, fiber, protein, and lignans.
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