Pre/Post Workout Meal - Controversial stuff

benji · 04-19-2008, 11:43 AM

Considering I am on a cutting diet, could someone provide suggestions as to what I could possibly take for my pre/post workout meal? More so for the post workout meal since thats where all the controversy lies.

Current Meals:
Pre Workout:
Apples/Oranges (4/5 slices) <-- considering a change to oats/wholegrains
Whey Protein
1% Skimmed Milk

Post Workout:
Whey Protein
1% Skimmed Milk
Fruit Juice (inclusive of sugar & fructose)

Pre-Workout:
So this is what I am actually interested in. For some of the guides I have read, they advocate using fruits pre-workout as they help dilate the blood vessels as well as other benefits which i shall not delve into. However, they ARE high in fructose. Something which i do not really want. so i was considering swapping them with perhaps 2 slices of wholegrained bread. Opinions are very welcome (:

Post-Workout:
Now this is the tricky one. I have read through many many articles. Most of which recommend the use of High GI carbs to increase insulin levels which will in-turn up protein synthesis. However, in the recent posts/ articles i have been reading, there seems to be a change in thoughts as well as study results. And now it seems that low glycemic carbs would work just as well, if not better then intaking high GI carbs. I was therefore wondering if i should replace my fruit juice once again with 2 slices of whole grained bread/oats? Also, if i were to replace them with oats, was wondering if i could just add them into the shake without blending them into powder (im using instant quaker) and not throw up lol.

Long post but, i hope you guys take the time to read it and help me out. Thanks all in advance

**Built** · 04-19-2008, 01:17 PM

This is a very good question, and I addressed it in a column I wrote on WBB a while back. Wanna Be Big Bodybuilding: Articles by MariAnne Anderson I think it was in issue 2 of "get built".

The short and dirty is you need an available pool of amino acid and glucose to repair damage due to the lifting you will perform - and of course it's good to have a little energy for the workout itself.

IF you don't pay careful attention to pre-workout nutrition then yes, the post-workout insulin spike is helpful because it will shuttle the fast carb and protein (ie whey and dextrose) into the newly damaged muscles, blunt cortisol, etc etc.

HOWEVER, if you ate properly before you trained, another solid meal afterward will be just fine. That's what I do.

About an hour out (you'll have to fiddle with the timing and meal composition a but to suit your comfort etc) I have something like a protein waffle (oats, cottage cheese and egg white, recipe is on my blog) with some fruit and maybe a little peanut butter and a dab of honey.

Post workout, nothing hits it like a sweet potato and steak or chicken.

No sugary drink required.

If you can afford the calories, sip a dilute whey dextrose shake during your workout.

About an hour out (you'll have to fiddle with the timing and meal composition a but to suit your comfort etc) I have something like a protein waffle (oats, cottage cheese and egg white, recipe is on my blog) with some fruit and maybe a little peanut butter and a dab of honey.

Post workout, nothing hits it like a sweet potato and steak or chicken.

vader · 04-19-2008, 01:22 PM

I think Built hit the nail on the head with the sweet potato and steak or chicken.
that is my personal favorite.
mmmmmm sweet potato

**Built** · 04-19-2008, 01:30 PM

My love of sweet potatoes is profound.

They're good SO many ways:
Baked, with butter and salt
Baked, with seasoning salt and bbq sauce (don't hate - they're delicious that way!)
Baked, with <hangs head in shame> salt, butter and peach jam OMG to die for...

And of course, if you don't mind the odd cheat day, french fried sweet potato. Gaahhhh... I love fried food. <cries>

vader · 04-19-2008, 03:20 PM

Baked and topped with butter and cinnamon

benji · 04-19-2008, 09:21 PM

omg built, thats great stuff right there. but if my workout were to be like 60-90 minutes after my pre-workout meal, is it still advisable to intake fruits since they are high in sugar? im afraid i might crash halfway through while im at the gym. i was htinking of TOTALLY swapping the fruit for 2 slices of wholegrain bread. what say you?

**Built** · 04-19-2008, 11:36 PM

It's a logistics issue. If you're eating farther out, try oats. Have some fruit just before you train.

benji · 04-20-2008, 12:44 AM

but i thought fruits had more fructose and were more to restoring glycogen in the liver as opposed to storing muscle glycogen? also, do u eat ur oats raw or..? cus i cant see how i'll prepare my oats xD (i go to the gym from school btw)

**Built** · 04-20-2008, 02:29 AM

Fruit has some fructose, but not THAT much. It also has some glucose.

Grind the raw oats to a powder (coffee grinder works well for this), then toss 'em into the shake and blend.

benji · 04-20-2008, 08:05 AM

sorry for this dumb question but uh, i see u recommend oats > wholegrain bread. is it because of the added fiber it brings? or..? cus bread would really be way more convenient to pack along.

**Built** · 04-20-2008, 02:11 PM

LOL - that's my personal bias. Wheat makes me hungry!

If you don't have a wheat intolerance, you're perfectly fine with bread. I'm glad you asked it.

benji · 04-21-2008, 04:50 AM

lol.well dude, i actually went to boil my oats into a nice lil pulp lol.den put em in a container with my brothers cute mickey mouse spoon (only that one fit into the box). ah well.looked pretty stupid eating it at school but some girls thought it was cute.HAHAHA.

anyway, another question. what brand of oats do u eat? cus i currently eat quakers instant oatmeal.and i was htinking of changing it to rolled oats since many people say its better. but i checked the fiber content of quakers instant vs Unknown brand's rolled whole oats.and quaker happens to have a fiber content. is that only cus its quakers? or do instant oats naturally have a higher fiber content?

WillBrink · 04-21-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benji

For some of the guides I have read, they advocate using fruits pre-workout as they help dilate the blood vessels

They do? That's news to me. Got a cite for that? I will look into it.

My latest thoughts on pre and post workout nutrition:

The Religion of Pre and Post Workout Nutrition:

The Religion of Pre and Post Workout Nutrition.

For some additional thoughts, with results from the ISSN conference on the topic of pre and post:

It's All In The Timing - Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

It's All In The Timing - Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

benji · 04-21-2008, 09:12 AM

Bodybuilding.com - Topic Of The Week - What Is A Proper Pre, During, And Post Workout Nutrition Diet?

there ya go.its in the first article. (the whole link is actually 3 top articles)

**Built** · 04-21-2008, 09:26 AM

benji - I just get "quick". It doesn't matter, you're grinding them up to a powder anyway.

In other news, I didn't know we had Will Brink here!

WillBrink · 04-21-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

benji - I just get "quick". It doesn't matter, you're grinding them up to a powder anyway.

In other news, I didn't know we had Will Brink here!

I'm around. Do a search on my name and you will see.

**Built** · 04-21-2008, 12:46 PM

Well I am delighted to make your acquaintance! I love reading your stuff!

WillBrink · 04-21-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Well I am delighted to make your acquaintance! I love reading your stuff!

Thanx! Much appreciated. We aims to please...You will also see Prince has stickied some of my vids too.

**Built** · 04-21-2008, 01:00 PM

I shall look from home. No utube here.

benji · 04-22-2008, 03:31 AM

offtopic: on a cutting diet, which helps u lose fat more/more important? fish oils or multi vits..which should i get first?

**Built** · 04-22-2008, 09:48 AM

Neither. Get your diet working, train properly.

They're both cheap supps, and they're both good.

benji · 04-22-2008, 12:10 PM

yep.im already very strict on my diet taking in loads of lean protein, fibrous carbs/starchy carbs in limits, healthy poly/monounsaturates. also training 3x a week progressively.so im looking to get even better results with supps.but i think i'll keep without em first.

**Built** · 04-22-2008, 12:33 PM

Don't forget healthy saturates - and try to keep the polys low.

Are you dropping weight now?

nadirmg · 04-22-2008, 12:54 PM

benji, hope you don't mind if i bounce off your questions. mine is somewhat similar.

i work out some days in the morning some in the evening (about half and half). the pre/post meal is REALLY easy when i work out in the evenings.

but for breakfast...? i crawl out of bed and i'm still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes by the time i get to the gym. what should i eat so that i have energy but don't feel bloated during my workout?

today my pre w/o meal was:
1 scoop of whey
1/2 cup of oats
all mixed in with water (i pretend it's cereal)

during workout:
whey dextrose and creatine dilute shake

post workout:
1/2 cup of oats
1 whole and 4 egg whites with 1tsp olive oil
1/2 grapefruit

should i be doing the fruit preworkout instead of post? anything else i should change up?

**Built** · 04-22-2008, 01:17 PM

Nadir, you've got it nailed. Eat a banana along with the pre-workout meal if you want and if you have the calorie room. Or not.

benji · 04-22-2008, 05:45 PM

lol.im actually maintaining weight now at 9%.but i wanna drop my bf even lower without losing too much LBM.probably around 6/7%? My preworkout is now similar to nadir's.cept i eat my oats separately. postworkout similar too. minus the olive oil

04-19-2008, 11:43 AM	#1
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	Pre/Post Workout Meal - Controversial stuff BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Considering I am on a cutting diet, could someone provide suggestions as to what I could possibly take for my pre/post workout meal? More so for the post workout meal since thats where all the controversy lies. Current Meals: Pre Workout: Apples/Oranges (4/5 slices) <-- considering a change to oats/wholegrains Whey Protein 1% Skimmed Milk Post Workout: Whey Protein 1% Skimmed Milk Fruit Juice (inclusive of sugar & fructose) Pre-Workout: So this is what I am actually interested in. For some of the guides I have read, they advocate using fruits pre-workout as they help dilate the blood vessels as well as other benefits which i shall not delve into. However, they ARE high in fructose. Something which i do not really want. so i was considering swapping them with perhaps 2 slices of wholegrained bread. Opinions are very welcome (: Post-Workout: Now this is the tricky one. I have read through many many articles. Most of which recommend the use of High GI carbs to increase insulin levels which will in-turn up protein synthesis. However, in the recent posts/ articles i have been reading, there seems to be a change in thoughts as well as study results. And now it seems that low glycemic carbs would work just as well, if not better then intaking high GI carbs. I was therefore wondering if i should replace my fruit juice once again with 2 slices of whole grained bread/oats? Also, if i were to replace them with oats, was wondering if i could just add them into the shake without blending them into powder (im using instant quaker) and not throw up lol. Long post but, i hope you guys take the time to read it and help me out. Thanks all in advance

04-19-2008, 01:17 PM	#2
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	This is a very good question, and I addressed it in a column I wrote on WBB a while back. Wanna Be Big Bodybuilding: Articles by MariAnne Anderson I think it was in issue 2 of "get built". The short and dirty is you need an available pool of amino acid and glucose to repair damage due to the lifting you will perform - and of course it's good to have a little energy for the workout itself. IF you don't pay careful attention to pre-workout nutrition then yes, the post-workout insulin spike is helpful because it will shuttle the fast carb and protein (ie whey and dextrose) into the newly damaged muscles, blunt cortisol, etc etc. HOWEVER, if you ate properly before you trained, another solid meal afterward will be just fine. That's what I do. About an hour out (you'll have to fiddle with the timing and meal composition a but to suit your comfort etc) I have something like a protein waffle (oats, cottage cheese and egg white, recipe is on my blog) with some fruit and maybe a little peanut butter and a dab of honey. Post workout, nothing hits it like a sweet potato and steak or chicken. No sugary drink required. If you can afford the calories, sip a dilute whey dextrose shake during your workout. About an hour out (you'll have to fiddle with the timing and meal composition a but to suit your comfort etc) I have something like a protein waffle (oats, cottage cheese and egg white, recipe is on my blog) with some fruit and maybe a little peanut butter and a dab of honey. Post workout, nothing hits it like a sweet potato and steak or chicken. Last edited by Biggly : 04-20-2008 at 05:23 AM. Reason: double-post

04-22-2008, 12:54 PM	#24
nadirmg hardr bettr fastr strongr Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: hopefully TX soon Posts: 883 Photos: 7	benji, hope you don't mind if i bounce off your questions. mine is somewhat similar. i work out some days in the morning some in the evening (about half and half). the pre/post meal is REALLY easy when i work out in the evenings. but for breakfast...? i crawl out of bed and i'm still rubbing the sleep out of my eyes by the time i get to the gym. what should i eat so that i have energy but don't feel bloated during my workout? today my pre w/o meal was: 1 scoop of whey 1/2 cup of oats all mixed in with water (i pretend it's cereal) during workout: whey dextrose and creatine dilute shake post workout: 1/2 cup of oats 1 whole and 4 egg whites with 1tsp olive oil 1/2 grapefruit should i be doing the fruit preworkout instead of post? anything else i should change up?
	w/o log 5'5" - currently bulking - 143lb on 5/02 weight goal I: 150 :: flat bench goal II:170 :: squat goal I: 235 :: weighted chin goal II: +20 x 5 x 5

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04-19-2008, 01:22 PM	#3
vader Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 143 Photos: 18	I think Built hit the nail on the head with the sweet potato and steak or chicken. that is my personal favorite. mmmmmm sweet potato

04-19-2008, 01:30 PM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	My love of sweet potatoes is profound. They're good SO many ways: Baked, with butter and salt Baked, with seasoning salt and bbq sauce (don't hate - they're delicious that way!) Baked, with <hangs head in shame> salt, butter and peach jam OMG to die for... And of course, if you don't mind the odd cheat day, french fried sweet potato. Gaahhhh... I love fried food. <cries>

04-19-2008, 03:20 PM	#5
vader Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 143 Photos: 18	Baked and topped with butter and cinnamon

04-19-2008, 09:21 PM	#6
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	omg built, thats great stuff right there. but if my workout were to be like 60-90 minutes after my pre-workout meal, is it still advisable to intake fruits since they are high in sugar? im afraid i might crash halfway through while im at the gym. i was htinking of TOTALLY swapping the fruit for 2 slices of wholegrain bread. what say you?

04-19-2008, 11:36 PM	#7
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	It's a logistics issue. If you're eating farther out, try oats. Have some fruit just before you train.

04-20-2008, 12:44 AM	#8
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	but i thought fruits had more fructose and were more to restoring glycogen in the liver as opposed to storing muscle glycogen? also, do u eat ur oats raw or..? cus i cant see how i'll prepare my oats xD (i go to the gym from school btw)

04-20-2008, 02:29 AM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	Fruit has some fructose, but not THAT much. It also has some glucose. Grind the raw oats to a powder (coffee grinder works well for this), then toss 'em into the shake and blend.

04-20-2008, 08:05 AM	#10
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	sorry for this dumb question but uh, i see u recommend oats > wholegrain bread. is it because of the added fiber it brings? or..? cus bread would really be way more convenient to pack along.

04-20-2008, 02:11 PM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	LOL - that's my personal bias. Wheat makes me hungry! If you don't have a wheat intolerance, you're perfectly fine with bread. I'm glad you asked it.

04-21-2008, 04:50 AM	#12
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	lol.well dude, i actually went to boil my oats into a nice lil pulp lol.den put em in a container with my brothers cute mickey mouse spoon (only that one fit into the box). ah well.looked pretty stupid eating it at school but some girls thought it was cute.HAHAHA. anyway, another question. what brand of oats do u eat? cus i currently eat quakers instant oatmeal.and i was htinking of changing it to rolled oats since many people say its better. but i checked the fiber content of quakers instant vs Unknown brand's rolled whole oats.and quaker happens to have a fiber content. is that only cus its quakers? or do instant oats naturally have a higher fiber content?

04-21-2008, 09:12 AM	#14
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	Bodybuilding.com - Topic Of The Week - What Is A Proper Pre, During, And Post Workout Nutrition Diet? there ya go.its in the first article. (the whole link is actually 3 top articles)

04-21-2008, 09:26 AM	#15
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	benji - I just get "quick". It doesn't matter, you're grinding them up to a powder anyway. In other news, I didn't know we had Will Brink here!

04-21-2008, 12:46 PM	#17
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	Well I am delighted to make your acquaintance! I love reading your stuff!

04-21-2008, 01:00 PM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	I shall look from home. No utube here.

04-22-2008, 03:31 AM	#20
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	offtopic: on a cutting diet, which helps u lose fat more/more important? fish oils or multi vits..which should i get first?

04-22-2008, 09:48 AM	#21
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	Neither. Get your diet working, train properly. They're both cheap supps, and they're both good.

04-22-2008, 12:10 PM	#22
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	yep.im already very strict on my diet taking in loads of lean protein, fibrous carbs/starchy carbs in limits, healthy poly/monounsaturates. also training 3x a week progressively.so im looking to get even better results with supps.but i think i'll keep without em first.

04-22-2008, 12:33 PM	#23
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	Don't forget healthy saturates - and try to keep the polys low. Are you dropping weight now?

04-22-2008, 01:17 PM	#25
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 700	Nadir, you've got it nailed. Eat a banana along with the pre-workout meal if you want and if you have the calorie room. Or not.

04-22-2008, 05:45 PM	#26
benji Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lingerie Store Posts: 10	lol.im actually maintaining weight now at 9%.but i wanna drop my bf even lower without losing too much LBM.probably around 6/7%? My preworkout is now similar to nadir's.cept i eat my oats separately. postworkout similar too. minus the olive oil