m11

Hello,
First of all, long read....

I've started this nutrition program (Smart For Life) that has been working well so far. I'd just like to here your opinions on it. It has been around for a little, and the link has a "as seen on abc" link to a video that gives it a quick explanation. (the doctor in the video is my actual doctor which is pretty cool)

Smart for Lifeâ„¢ Weight Management Centers-cookie no.1 diet plan that will help you lose weight

My situation is:
Started the program on 5/8 (may 8th). I was 20 years old 5'9" 276lbs 31percent body fat. Vitals were all normal 120/80bp...184cholesteral...~66pulse rate. I had been involved in sports and weight lifting my entire life. My nutrition situation was kind of dubious, i'm actually knowledgeable on proper diets...im a nutrition major in college...and I've successfully constructed diet programs to help people lose weight themselves. Its just that i've been lazy with my own nutrition and have been too lazy to prepare meals for myself throughout the day...been doing the big 1 or 2 meals a day thing for awhile. This program allows you to easily have meals available for yourself.

Anyways, since 5/8 I've lost about 20-25 pounds on the program. I haven't checked my BF but i visit the doctor weekly so i can check it if anyone is interested. My vitals are monitored weekly and everything in order. Essentially, the word from the doctor is that I'm progressing above their expectations and that everything is healthy.

My goal is to get to 190ish pounds at a reasonably maintainable BF% (i'm hoping around 8-12%)

Also i'd like to add that im taking 35mg per day of phendimetrazine as well as b6, potassium/magnesium supplements, and a multivitamin....the phendi is an Rx and the supps are otc provided by the doc.

I also have been lifting weights regularly ( 4 days a week) for about a year and a half. I can post the workout...i put it together that year and a half ago based on the stickies here..i suppose i can post it again if cowpimp or pfunk or whoever reads this and feels like reviewing it. But yea, after starting the program...i've had to cut the intensity. Also i'd say my cardio was relatively limited. I'd play about two or so hours of full court basketball a couple times a week...or an hour or two of racquetball..but no HIIT or anything formal like that.


but yea....what do you guys think?

Built

Honestly, the diet plan looks like crap - anything that reduces caloric intake will get weight off you. The trick is to drop FAT, retain muscle, and then KEEP the weight off. What I saw is just a gimmick.

m11

actually concerning goal weight...i'd like some help with this. Haha at school we just learned the 106# + 6lbs x height in inches over 5 feet

so for me that works out to 106 x (6 x 9)...or 160 pounds...that seems kinda small.

but yea i looked it up on the internet and what im getting is to perform this calculation.

Initial BF = 276 x 31% = 85.6 #BF
Lean Body Mass = 276 - 85.6 = 190
Pounds BF = 276# x 12% = 33.1#BF (the 12% is goal BF%)

LBM + BF at ideal percentage = goal weight
190 + 33.1 = 223.1#

so by that it says that at 5'9" and my build i should be at 223 pounds @ 12% BF.

does that work out?

m11

actually i completely agree with you. When i saw the program i completely thought it was ridiculous. However, i had someone else willing to pay for it... i figured i'd give it a shot. What i was hoping was that i'd be able to get something of a jump start using this program...basically a sped up way to start losing weight...and then hope to fall back on what i know about nutrition etc to hold me together. Basically get myself out of the nutritional laziness i've been. Like im very aware that weightloss is a slow process...however its of course very demoralizing when you dont see results ( i know, same bullshit everyone says...i know to suck it up and stop complaining)..but yea...thats the situation im in. But yea, im looking at this as a way to lose some weight and then maintain it with proper nutrition.

Built

How fast have you lost with this?

m11

almost 25 pounds in 30 days

Built

Um, you are going to lose all your size. I guarantee you rebound weight gain. Damn.

How often do they implement refeeds, and what is the "exit plan"?

m11

the doctor didnt implement any formal refeed days. the starvation mode situation was something i was concerned with from the beginning. Its actually something i wanted to address with him. I was thinking that a higher carb day every week or so would be a good idea.

The exit strategy is along the lines of when i get closer to my goal weight to slowly begin to increase my calories to a more normal/maintenance intake at around 2200 cals...using normal food. My goal is to maintain that weight for a while and not focus on muscular hypertrophy right away...but to get my eating habits together.

Built

What have your workouts been like?

<shakes head...> No refeeds. Why the hell can't the medical community read a goddamned book...

m11

haha i know the idea of movements not body parts...but i'll still break it down with the chest/tri back/bi type deal...id also appreciate any advice on this as well...haha i've actually been reading your blog for the last hour or so so yea...advice would be cool

the days im using are more for reference than the actual days i do everything...but the order is more or less the same...sometimes i do biceps on the day i'd do triceps and vice versa..just to mix it up...also i substitute some exercises every once in awhile when i see some one doing something interesting...i go to a large university...so there are always plenty of athletes working out in the gym....so i try to squeeze some advice from their trainers when they feel chatty


anyway..this was my workout when i was 276lbs...ive been able to retain everything so far more or less....the leg numbers have dropped about 20% i'd say
Monday
Chest/ Tri/ "abs"...just to mention...my consecutive dips record is currently at 3...so thats why i dont have those...and yes the assisted machines are there but the wait is almost not worth it
Flat Barbell Bench: 185lb 1x8
205lb 2x6-7
225lb 2x5-6

Incline Dumbell Press: 65lb 1 x 8
70lb 1 x 8
70 or 75 1x about 6

Flat Dumbell Fly (im actually moving away from this...even after awhile and help from some athletic trainers....i feel like i cant get the form down perfectly every time..even at low weight....but some days i feel like i can 'slot' the dumbells into the correct position and it feels great

3x8 45/50lbs

Skull Crushers: 2 or 3 x10ish like 80/85lbs
Tricep Pulldowns: 2 or 3 sets of 10

various Captains Chair ab exercises and on that bench type apparatus where you hang ur feet up and hang upside down and do core strengthening exercises


Tuesday
Deadlift/back/bi....(pull up record is at about 7/8ths)
SL Deadlifts: 2 x 10 205
1 x 8 225
1 x 8 245

Lateral pull downs 2x 10 195
1 x 8 205
1 x 8 215

Bent over rows : 3 x 10 100lbs

Seated rows (they kinda do shoulders as well but i do them on this day) 3 x 8-10

Standing Barbell curls 3x8-10

Seated Preacher barbell curls (*that may not be the actual name but i think it describes it aptly*) 3 x 8-10

Thursday
Squats/Legs/ "abs"

Squats ( i wouldnt call them ATG...blown out knee..yada yada...but i get down to almost 90degrees now):
2 x 8 225
1 x 6 275
1 x 6 315
1 x 4 335

Leg Press: 1x10 360
1 x 10 540
1 x 8-10 720


Calf raises: couple sets


same various Captains Chair ab exercises and on that bench type apparatus where you hang ur feet up and hang upside down and do core strengthening exercises

Saturday
Shoulders, sometimes i do deadlifts first here instead of the day i do back just to spread the load a little

Seated Barbell Military Press (behind the neck style):
1x 10 95
2x 8-10 115
1-2 x 8-10 135

Barbell Upright rows 3x10 95-105 depending on how im feeling

Um arms out to your side lifting them up so you make a T shape with your body Row (?): 3x8ish 35lb


Row where you lift both dumbells out in front of you..lifting them up to below your eye level row : 3x8ish 35lb


thats about it....again, criticisms would be great

Built

Actually, not horrible. Really, I've seen far, far worse. I'm honestly relieved - I see bench press, real squats, deadlifts... good.

I'd swap out Arnies and Olympic bar corner presses for upright rows. Make sure you do your lat work with a shoulder-width or narrower grip. Also, switch out leg press for front squats if you're feeling brave.

Can you at least give us your macronutrient mix while on this diet?

m11

they are low...and from what i know...they are much lower than what is considered healthy..the reason why i wouldnt recommend this program to anyone. The idea is that i dont think most people have the desire to eat so little. And with the exit strategy in mind, the idea is to start eating a little more every week or so after you have basically reached goal weight, until you are up to maintenance caloric intake. I think i would find that most people would begin gorging themselves once they are off the plan, and therefore rebound weight gain. Im hoping that by the end of this program, i'll be in the habit of keeping my diet clean, and that won't be an issue.....but with that said... im just going with what the doc says regarding how much food im eating during the plan

Macros: Fat: 25g = 225cal
Carbs: 80g = 320cal
Protein: 70g = 280cal
Total = 825cal/day
and of course im not consuming any alcohol or anything like that so there are no additional calories from those kind of 'hidden sources'.

m11

i have some upright rows in there on 'shoulder day'....do you recommend i do more? Or is there another exercise you'd recommend?

Built

You need a different plan babe. Your protein need during this type of diet is far greater than the standard minimum.

Go buy and read this: Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook

And ditch this current diet right the fuck away.

m11

thanks for your help Built, i'll look into that book

Built

You lost a lot of weight doing what you're doing. The problem is you don't want to just lose weight - you want to lose FAT.

A pound of fat holds about 3500 stored calories.
A pound of muscle? Well, I looked up sirloin on the USDA nutrient database a while back and a pound was about 600 calories.

What does that mean? Well, it means a 3500 calorie deficit can drop a pound of fat, or almost SIX pounds of muscle.

You lost 25 lbs in 30 days on about 825 calories a day.

Suppose maintenance for you was 2800 calories a day. So for 30 days you've run a deficit of about 2000 calories a day.

This works out to 2000 x 30 days = 60,000 calories. If it were all from fat, you dropped 17 lbs of fat. But you dropped 25 lbs, not 17.

Setting up some simple math shows a frightening result if my assumptions are correct:
Let x = fat pounds
Let y = muscle pounds

3500x + 600y = 60000 <- total energy lost from fat and muscle came to 60000 calories
x + y = 25 <- total weight lost from fat and muscle came to 25 lbs

Solving these simultaneous equations yields the following rather unpleasant result:

x = 15
y = 10

Translation: if my assumptions are correct, you lost 15 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle.

m11

thank you built i appreciate that.....it was definitely a large concern from the start that this program would catabolize my muscle tissue. However, I was assured by the doctor that the rate of muscle catabolization would be insignifcant in relation to the amount of fat loss. Its something i'd have to go over again with him in detail at this 1 month mark. Are their any other concerns you think I should go over with him? From the start, i was skeptical and I told him that i dont think that this program is particularly smart or safe. He told me he was open to modifying the program to what i think fits my needs...but i agreed to do his plan for a little. I figured with my 2 years into my nutrition major...i should acquiesce to the guy with the M.D/RDA.

Built

Have you ever known a bodybuilder who went to see the doctor for cutting advice?

m11

for now, i'm gonna go get a breakdown of body composition now and compare it to what it was when i started. Best case scenario for me is that the loss is mostly fat and water...and minimal muscle loss. If youre interested in an update on the breakdown, Built, im heading to the doc tomorrow and i can post how it went

m11

i was also wondering if anyone else who has come across this thread have any opinions or comments on this situation

Built

The only way you'll know how you really did is if you get a DEXA full-body x-ray. Otherwise, you won't know. If they use one of those bioelectrical impedance things, don't even worry about it. The error margin on those things is HUGE, and it varies with your glycogen and water levels. Useless, especially for extreme dieters.

m11

when losing weight...i feel like some muscle loss in inevitable. Of course not 10 of 25lbs...but losing a few pounds of muscle for every 15 or 20 lbs of fat i feel is acceptable. Do you feel that is true? When you lost some weight, did you take any muscle with it?

Built

Sure, some muscle-loss is inevitable. The thing is, if you do it right, the muscle-loss is minimal. Furthermore, if you do it right, you might actually GAIN a tiny bit of muscle in the initial stages of a cut, particularly if you're significantly overfat to begin with. Lyle's diet that I linked you to, if you MUST crash-diet, that's the one to use because it is scientifically designed to minimize muscle loss: protein is kept very high, you perform two short, heavy, low-volume workouts a week to preserve lean mass, and you employ regular carbohydrate refeeds.

It's the optimal way to crash diet.

The way you are doing it - very low protein, very low calories, no refeeds and no heavy lifting - that's the worst way.

Sorry.

m11

i noticed it at the bottom of the page and you mentioned it yourself...when do you feel it is appropriate to crash diet....im looking for an answer besides 'never'...if one exists

Triple Threat

If x + y = 25, how can x = 25 and y = 10?

m11

she meant 15...if you run the numbers again using her equation....its comes out to like 15.5 and 9.5

Built

Thank you for the catch. I transcribed it wrong from the paper napkin I was working on, in my haste.

m11

built, based on the values you have of my bf, weight etc...would you be able to help me out with coming up an idea of what would be macronutrient breakdowns that you would recommend for cutting fat the most efficient way. I feel like the process is different for trying to lose 50 pounds and cut body fat in half that of trying to lose 6 pounds and going from 10% to 8%. (just buy that guys book is acceptable as well)

Built

Fast way: buy the guy's book. I can help you work out the details once you've read it.

Slow way: Got Built? » Open Source Fitness - Get started here Read the carb-cycling article.

In either event: short, heavy workouts.