2 questions - whey and fat

nottingham28 · 07-23-2008, 05:58 PM

Hi guys, 2 dietary questions

1) I get that you need to eat above your caloric level to build muscle. But, how can you be sure this is used to build muscle and doesn't just go on you as general bulk, on the tummy, for example? Is it all down to precisely WHAT foods you eat a lot of?

If you already have the mass but aren't particularly toned, and want to turn that into more defined muscle, do you still need to eat over the calorie levels?

2) On several people's recommendations I've got some whey powder which makes milkshakes (I'm a veggie so this is quite important).

Can anyone tell me if there's an optimum time in the day to take this? Morning/night, just before/after training etc? Also, the bottle doesn't say anything about how much you should have a day. Presumably you'd use as much as you need in order to hit the daily recommended protein intake (55g)?

Thanks in advance

dirtcake1 · 07-23-2008, 06:21 PM

I am using a post workout mega whey (52g protein) but, I also consume another 40-60 grams of "food protein" daily. I recommend Built's homepage for your nutritional questions, as, she is an expert.

danzik17 · 07-23-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nottingham28

Hi guys, 2 dietary questions

1) I get that you need to eat above your caloric level to build muscle. But, how can you be sure this is used to build muscle and doesn't just go on you as general bulk, on the tummy, for example? Is it all down to precisely WHAT foods you eat a lot of?

If you already have the mass but aren't particularly toned, and want to turn that into more defined muscle, do you still need to eat over the calorie levels?

When bulking, you are going to put on fat no matter what unless you go on an extremely slow and clean bulk. That's why most bodybuilders do bulking and cutting cycles each year in order to reach their goals. You don't define the muscle necessarily, you cut off fat so that the muscle definition that is already there can be seen. That is done through a caloric deficit.

2) On several people's recommendations I've got some whey powder which makes milkshakes (I'm a veggie so this is quite important).

Can anyone tell me if there's an optimum time in the day to take this? Morning/night, just before/after training etc? Also, the bottle doesn't say anything about how much you should have a day. Presumably you'd use as much as you need in order to hit the daily recommended protein intake (55g)?

Definitely read the stickies and Built's blog. The RDV for protein of 55g is grossly under what you would need, less than half. You should aim for about 1g/lb lean body mass. Personally I eat upwards of 230g protein/day which is about 1.5g/lb lean body mass. Right after training is the optimal time for a protein shake, but you should be eating a lot of protein in solid food form. For a vegetarian this may be a pain - I'm not even sure what foods to eat for protein as a vegetarian except for beans (which are an incomplete protein).

If you're willing to eat eggs, you could eat a lot of egg whites with a few whole eggs each day, that should get you through at least two meals (I do this as well - 2 eggs w/ 5 egg whites twice per day)

Thanks in advance

nottingham28 · 07-24-2008, 02:52 AM

Thanks for your help, guys

SnowManSnow · 07-24-2008, 12:47 PM

I can't answer all your questions because I'm still learning too.. but lemme try to explain it as I see it.

The way you get your body to use the calories to build muscle and not fat is that you have to make it believe that building muscle is more important than storing fat. If you're consistantly lifting heavy weigh your body will reason that it has to build the muscle to survive and "channel" the caloric highway that direction.

nottingham28 · 08-01-2008, 11:08 AM

SnowManSnow - sorry for the late response, only just noticed your reply. Thanks a lot.

Still not 100% sure on things. I get about the protein, calories etc. But still not quite sure of the answer to the following question: do you need to eat over your recommended intake of calories if you are looking to build muscle, not gain weight?

I get that you need to eat over the limit if you want to get bigger generally, gain pounds. But what about if you don't want to put on weight but just define/build muscles more?

Might be a bit of a dumb question but hey, I'm no biologist. Thanks again.

VanessaNicole · 08-09-2008, 08:59 PM

If you are very overweight/overfat then you actually don't need to eat above maintainance to build muscle. If you have a lot of excess body fat you can even eat below maintainance and build muscle.

Flame away, but it's true.

Fat stores provide *plently* of energy to build and repair tissues following exercise. Just make sure you eat enough protein.

**Built** · 08-09-2008, 10:15 PM

THANK you.

To be fair, you're not going to put on a lot of muscle in a deficit, but you will put on some - more if you're also a novice.

nottingham28 · 08-10-2008, 05:53 AM

Thanks guys - not sure why these e-mail alerts don't come, didn't know you'd replied until I decided to check out the page myself.

So you can turn existing excess fat into muscle? I've been told opposite - this game's a difficult one, isn't it.

Anyway I'm basically trying to eat a lot but not ridiculous amounts. People say 6 meals a day, I'm probably on 4 with slices of bread, lots of fruit, protein shakes etc thrown in inbetwee. Some results so far. The holy grail would be to lose a bit of excess fat but still be able to build muscle. The consensus seems to be this is practically impossible so I'll just stick with the excess fat - it's not too much and I like the bulk, considering I used to be 11 stone 4lbs.

Thanks guys.

**Built** · 08-10-2008, 05:35 PM

No. You can't turn excess fat into muscle. But you can use some of the calories from strored fat to build a little bit of muscle, particularly if you're an undeveloped novice.

07-23-2008, 05:58 PM	#1
nottingham28 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 123 Posts: 9	2 questions - whey and fat Hi guys, 2 dietary questions 1) I get that you need to eat above your caloric level to build muscle. But, how can you be sure this is used to build muscle and doesn't just go on you as general bulk, on the tummy, for example? Is it all down to precisely WHAT foods you eat a lot of? If you already have the mass but aren't particularly toned, and want to turn that into more defined muscle, do you still need to eat over the calorie levels? 2) On several people's recommendations I've got some whey powder which makes milkshakes (I'm a veggie so this is quite important). Can anyone tell me if there's an optimum time in the day to take this? Morning/night, just before/after training etc? Also, the bottle doesn't say anything about how much you should have a day. Presumably you'd use as much as you need in order to hit the daily recommended protein intake (55g)? Thanks in advance

08-09-2008, 08:59 PM	#7
VanessaNicole Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cali Posts: 355	If you are very overweight/overfat then you actually don't need to eat above maintainance to build muscle. If you have a lot of excess body fat you can even eat below maintainance and build muscle. Flame away, but it's true. Fat stores provide plently of energy to build and repair tissues following exercise. Just make sure you eat enough protein.
	The more The marble wastes, The more the statue grows. Michelangelo

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07-23-2008, 06:21 PM	#2
dirtcake1 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: tn Posts: 45	I am using a post workout mega whey (52g protein) but, I also consume another 40-60 grams of "food protein" daily. I recommend Built's homepage for your nutritional questions, as, she is an expert.

07-24-2008, 02:52 AM	#4
nottingham28 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 123 Posts: 9	Thanks for your help, guys

07-24-2008, 12:47 PM	#5
SnowManSnow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 74	I can't answer all your questions because I'm still learning too.. but lemme try to explain it as I see it. The way you get your body to use the calories to build muscle and not fat is that you have to make it believe that building muscle is more important than storing fat. If you're consistantly lifting heavy weigh your body will reason that it has to build the muscle to survive and "channel" the caloric highway that direction.

08-01-2008, 11:08 AM	#6
nottingham28 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 123 Posts: 9	SnowManSnow - sorry for the late response, only just noticed your reply. Thanks a lot. Still not 100% sure on things. I get about the protein, calories etc. But still not quite sure of the answer to the following question: do you need to eat over your recommended intake of calories if you are looking to build muscle, not gain weight? I get that you need to eat over the limit if you want to get bigger generally, gain pounds. But what about if you don't want to put on weight but just define/build muscles more? Might be a bit of a dumb question but hey, I'm no biologist. Thanks again.

08-09-2008, 10:15 PM	#8
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,858	THANK you. To be fair, you're not going to put on a lot of muscle in a deficit, but you will put on some - more if you're also a novice.

08-10-2008, 05:53 AM	#9
nottingham28 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 123 Posts: 9	Thanks guys - not sure why these e-mail alerts don't come, didn't know you'd replied until I decided to check out the page myself. So you can turn existing excess fat into muscle? I've been told opposite - this game's a difficult one, isn't it. Anyway I'm basically trying to eat a lot but not ridiculous amounts. People say 6 meals a day, I'm probably on 4 with slices of bread, lots of fruit, protein shakes etc thrown in inbetwee. Some results so far. The holy grail would be to lose a bit of excess fat but still be able to build muscle. The consensus seems to be this is practically impossible so I'll just stick with the excess fat - it's not too much and I like the bulk, considering I used to be 11 stone 4lbs. Thanks guys.

08-10-2008, 05:35 PM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 1,858	No. You can't turn excess fat into muscle. But you can use some of the calories from strored fat to build a little bit of muscle, particularly if you're an undeveloped novice.