Thread: Calling the experts

If you haven't been losing you haven't been eating well under maintainance.

The kind of calorie restriction required to "mess up" your metabolism a) does not happen by accident and b) would result in a lot of weight loss before said metabolic "damage" occured.

Unless you have a thyroid disorder or lung cancer or some other disease which causes clinical anorexia, you would have to starve yourself for long periods of time before you would ever make any sort of significant or long lasting change to your BMR.

This wouldn't happen by itself, it would be literally painful in the absence of aforementioned clinical anorexia.

Probably you have over shot with your activity multiplier when guesstimating your calorie requirements, or you have no idea how many calories you are actually consuming.

You have nothing to fix.

Decide what your goals are and work out an eating plan from there.

I'm not losing/haven't lost for a long time because I'm at my current maintenance level, you're right...problem is my current maintenance level is jacked.

I didn't overshoot my activity level. If anything I undershot it. Even at a "sedentary" level, my estimated BMR was a couple hundred calories more than my real-life maintenance is now.

Also, I have a very good idea of how many calories I consume per day. I've been counting them regularly the last couple of weeks...it typically ranges around the 2000-2100 area. Saying 2100 was a "ballpark" figure probably wasn't the best choice of words, it's a fairly accurate guess.

As far as my "not losing weight" comment, that was months after I had started eating less. By that point my weight loss had stopped; I think I was in "starvation" mode already. I probably lost about ten pounds between the start of my basketball season and the end of my basketball season, but I didn't think much of it, and just attributed that to not lifting anymore, running at practice, etc. Looking back on it though, with knowledge of what I eat now and what I used to eat like then (when I used to eat junk) I'm eating way less calories now than I used to, no question about it...and when I try to eat even a little bit more, I gain weight (typically fat, too, I have a really hard time gaining clean muscle mass; I think my body's kind of starving for weight, you know?)

As far as this happening without it being intentional...well, sorry, don't know what to tell you. I didn't intentionally try to eat less; I never consciously decided "oh, I'm going to eat a lot less now and lose weight." As far as how exactly it happened and what caused it, I can't really remember now it was a long time ago and I didn't think anything of it at the time. All I can tell you is that that's around the time period when I started eating way less. I can tell you that I've since tried to gain weight and stopped once I realized all I was gaining was fat; I got stronger, but I could tell by looking in the mirror that I definitely wasn't gaining any LBM. So I kept up this "damaged metabolism" eating pattern, which I admit, certainly didn't help anything. I certainly wouldn't label myself "anorexic" (my girlfriend is a recovered anorexic, so I've witnessed that firsthand) but I would say I have "disordered eating" at this point.

I'm 100% sure my metabolism has been damaged by my eating patterns. Before I ate 4000ish calories a day (when trying to bulk up a little) and stopped gaining weight after like two weeks of that; now, my activity level is at least as high, but I'm only burning like 2100 cals a day.

Think about it; how could a 6'5, 20 year old active male maintain at 2100 calories a day without, like you said, a serious thyroid condition or something like that?

You said you lost 10 pounds and you attributed it (correctly, I believe) to the fact that you quit lifting.

The average American male eats about the same amount that you're eating.

It certainly may not be enough for an athlete, but it does not suggest that your metabolism is "damaged".

The term anorexia technically means "loss of appetite", when I said clinical anorexia I meant a medically originated lack of appetite and not the disease "anorexia nervosa".

You don't fit the description of someone with a damaged metabolism.

If you had to eat, say, 1,000 a day in order to not gain weight then I'd say your metabolism is definitely screwed up.

Did you use the HB formula? How old are you? How Much do you weigh? How tall are you?

Once again, the average 6'5, 170 pound, 20 year old ACTIVE male does NOT maintain on 2100 calories a day. Read my posts all the way through.

Originally Posted by bigsahm21

Once again, the average 6'5, 170 pound, 20 year old ACTIVE male does NOT maintain on 2100 calories a day. Read my posts all the way through.

Actually, I didn't say active.

The average American male who weighs only 10 pounds less than you maintains on 2000 calories a day.

Anyway, please read my posts.

I am saying that you do not fit the criterion for someone who has permanently altered their metabolism. That wouldn't happen from that small of a caloric defecit.

Ok anyone else have anything productive to offer?

First of all, it takes a while to damage one's metabolism.

Secondly, it is virtually impossible for anyone here to determine the state of your metabolism.

If your metabolism is in fact damaged or slowed, and you need a re-set, then yes, start from your original intake and bump it in relatively small increments (100-200cals) until you note, in the most general of terms, a "gain in weight". If this happens at 2300 calls per day, hold there for a few weeks. If you continue to gain, drop cals in smallish increments until you neither gain nor lose. You might wish to stay at this level for several weeks, or maybe months...
Like I've said before, if nothing else, be patient. You will not see results of any kind in a matter of weeks.

In the past, Jodi has offered input on this...and recently, Built has thrown some good info out there as well.

At the moment, given what I've read I agree - not only with the assessment of your situation, but also with your plan of gradually increasing your calories. I'd start with 2100, weigh everything and preplan. Then go to 2300 for a few weeks, see what happens, etc etc.

In the meantime, if you are concerned, please do go get your thyroid tested. There's no harm in establishing a baseline if you are in fact in good health, and if there is a defect in metabolism, you might as well find out now.

Do you know what to ask for when you see your physician to order the test?

Originally Posted by Built

Do you know what to ask for when you see your physician to order the test?

Y'know, I'm glad you asked that question.

Bigs' metabolism issues might be very different from someone elses, due to various factors..diet, level/type of activity, age, etc....

What should those of us with limited knowledge of thyroid testing ask our Docs?

They don't usually like to do it, but proper assessment of thyroid involves the following:

TSH
Free T4 and Free T3
Antibodies
Ferritin

Usually they only test TSH and poo-poo any of the others.

Stop The Thyroid Madness » Recommended Labwork

Thanks Built. For the next couple of months, going to a gastroentruologist is going to be a huge pain in the ass due to student health insurance complications, but I'll do more research on it, and if I suspect it to be an issue, I'll take care of it later on when I'm back home and it won't be so much of a hassle.

(I think you mean endocrinologist, not gastroenterologist.)

You don't need a specialist for these tests. Any GP can order them; do follow through if you feel you need to; meanwhile, work on gradually increasing your intake as you discussed.

How do you currently train?

Oh haha I mean gastroenturologist, I was just thinking all digestive related stuff would be through him but I guess you're right thyroid would be endocrinologist.

I'm doing a low volume, 3 day a week thing right now. Upper horizontal/legs/upper vertical; I'm thinking about splitting the legs into a "push"/"pull" type deal with quad and ham exercises on different days. Off days I usually do cardio, I mix it up with intervals/steady state/intense intervals, probably 3 days a week. I make sure to take one full day off each week.

Your training sounds dialled-in. Do the diet tweaks, see what happens. Let us know, k?

Will do guys thanks a lot

Update:

Well, it seems to be working from a metabolism standpoint. I've gained a little bit of weight, probably like 3 pounds in the last couple weeks, and my daily calorie intake is now up to 2700ish each day. Plus, I feel MUCH more comfortable eating this many calories daily than I originally did eating 2300-2400; before I felt like I was forcing myself to eat, now my appetite has greatly increased.

I've done a little bit of reading on it, and Built I think I'm going to take your advice and get my thyroid thoroughly checked; in addition to these metabolic issues I believe I've had, I've also dealt with some digestive issues (if you wanna know PM me haha) and sleeping issues. Basically I can't sleep to save my life...I've been running on anywhere from 4 1/2 - 6 1/2 hours a night for far too long and it simply isn't enough for me. The reading I've done indicates that thyroid issues may be the causes.

If I visit a doc and it turns out I do have an issue, what do you guys know/think about Thyromine?

Not worth the money as a stand-alone. If you are hypothyroid, you need thyroid meds.

Read this: Stop the Thyroid Madness

I read a little of it but it seems a little over my head...I don't know what a lot of those terms mean. I think I'm better off seeing a doctor

I'll be sure to insist on having all 4 of those things you mentioned checked out. Normally, those tests would be covered by a good health insurance plan, right?

They should be, but if they're not they're not expensive. I had to pay for mine the first time and it only cost me about fifty bucks to test free t3 and free t4. TSH and ferritin were covered on my plan.

Cool, I can hack it then if it's not covered. Thanks for the input I appreciate it.

I'm not sure what your looking for what exactly are your goals right now? Are you trying to speed up you metabolism loss bf, gain weight what? That'll make it easier to help out.