My post workout shake!

GOtriSports · 10-24-2008, 04:25 PM

Hey everyone I wanted to tell you what I put in my post workout shake and see if you all think it is pretty good or not. I used to just drink my 3 scoops of protein powder with water but I am trying to eat more calories and bulk atm so here it s:

In a blender I put 3 scoop of Whey protein (about 60g)
1/3 cup Raw oats
1.5 cups skim milk
1 Tbl spoon natty peanut butter
lots of ice

I have not figured out the macros, I can do that if you want to know it, but I feel like this is a pretty powerful post workout shake, what do you think?

JailHouse · 10-24-2008, 10:36 PM

Looks good as long as it fits in your daily cal intake.

bigsahm21 · 10-25-2008, 11:48 AM

60g protein powder + 12g protien from milk + 5g protein from oats + 3g protein from PB = about 80g of protein.

That's a little excessive...why so much?

urbanski · 10-25-2008, 12:21 PM

why not whole milk if you want more calories?

i'm bulking and i make my shakes with whole milk (150cals/16oz) and then add 2 Tbsp condensed milk (130cals) to it!

go4kj · 10-27-2008, 01:15 AM

Not everyone may agree with this, but from what I've read a combo of Whey+Casein+Soy protein helps to build more mass than Whey alone postworkout. That's what I use. Aim for 40-60 grams.

No fast acting carbs? May I suggest Waxy Maize or something like Gatorade or even a bagel or Gummy worms(fat free) for the insulin spike & replenish glycogen stores. 40-100 gms of fast acting carbs.

I would do away with the Peanut butter.

Add some Creatine.

My .02

**Built** · 10-27-2008, 01:47 AM

Why soy?

go4kj · 10-27-2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Why soy?

I don't know how accurate this is, but here goes:

PROTEIN FACE OFF - Nutrition - Muscle and Fitness

Thoughts on this subject, Built?

**Merkaba** · 10-27-2008, 06:57 AM

Do away with the pb and eat gummy worms....

Sounds like something I'd say.

**Built** · 10-27-2008, 09:55 AM

Hmmm. Well, soy's a goitrogen (means it interferes with thyroid function) and has phytoestrogenic properties, which means it weakly mimics estrogen in the body - which may be good or bad, I'm on the fence about it personally.

I don't consume soy, myself. I don't trust it.

bigsahm21 · 10-27-2008, 11:26 AM

I hear that those effects from soy only come when you eat in excess of 3 or so servings of soy foods a day. Have you heard anything like that?

go4kj · 10-27-2008, 06:20 PM

I've read some mixed things about soy. I need to do some more indepth research on that topic. Muscle and fitness magazine to which I'm a subscriber has always supported it's use.

Can someone provide any quality articles regarding the negatives of Soy?

**Built** · 10-27-2008, 06:35 PM

I'm sure that's possible.

Personally, I prefer to avoid it completely.

**Merkaba** · 10-27-2008, 11:18 PM

spirutein (soy based) protein powder used to be my favorite. It tasted well, was "all natural" and loaded with goodies, and it just set better with me. I always felt great afterwards. Its madly expensive though. At least it was when I was taking it back when I was vegetarian. The more research I came across that spoke about the dairy chain just turned me against regular milk but i do drink it from time to time, and I try to save my dairy for cheese consumption which I love. I use silk soy enchanced for most milk functions.

go4kj · 10-29-2008, 11:56 AM

I'm probably going to stop using soy too. Here is a link with references:

Is soy healthy?

Welcome to Soy Online Service

Biggly · 10-30-2008, 08:11 AM

Gotrisport, it looks to me like you're very much aiming for protein which is great for pre-workout but for postworkout you should be looking more towards carbohydrates, ie sugars.

60/40 split in favor of carbs is about right. After the workout your body is desperate to replace energy in the short term, with new muscle later. If you give it no sugar but protein you'll just be burning protein for energy. Save the bulk of your protein for a few hours after the workout or a few hours before, not immediately after.

B.

**Built** · 10-30-2008, 10:12 AM

Biggly, this sounds odd to me. Upon what do you base this assertion?

GOtriSports · 10-30-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggly

Gotrisport, it looks to me like you're very much aiming for protein which is great for pre-workout but for postworkout you should be looking more towards carbohydrates, ie sugars.

60/40 split in favor of carbs is about right. After the workout your body is desperate to replace energy in the short term, with new muscle later. If you give it no sugar but protein you'll just be burning protein for energy. Save the bulk of your protein for a few hours after the workout or a few hours before, not immediately after.

B.

I, like built would like to hear more about this because I have not been told this in the past. I have heard that you should consume some carbs after workout but i have not heard that it is more important than protein.

Also, the shake that I have listed there usually comes about 1 hours after my workout because I drink cellmass immediately after my workout then 45 minute to an hour later I down the protein shake.

I know a lot of people have said that I am having excess protein which m ay be true but let me explain my reasoning for it and then you can tell me if my reasoning is flawed or not (because it may very well be flawed).

I recently started increasing my overall calorie intake for each day. For a while I was around 2300-2500 a day. I have upped it now to about 3000-3100 per day. I have already started seeing strength gains and physical appearance improvement since I started doing this a little less than 2 weeks ago. However in my opnion for my current diet I already had enough carbs and fat. I also had enough protein probably seeing as I weight 190 Lbs and was consuming 170-180g per day. But to increase my overall calorie intake I needed to increase either carbs, fat, or protein (or all). I decided that increases my protein would probably be the best way to try and stay as lean as possible while building more muscle. If I am wrong tell me, but I assumed that would be the best way to increase my calories. Most of the increase has come from egg whites in the morning, cottage cheese before I go to sleep and the shake listed in this thread.

**Built** · 10-30-2008, 09:50 PM

If your fat is at least half a gram per pound LBM, it's likely ample. For carbs, there IS no "optimal" amount, since carbohydrate is not an essential macronutrient in humans.

On a bulk, it won't matter all that much where the increased calories come from. If you go over in your calories by too much, you're going to gain too much fat, flat out. However, it has long been my assertion that it's better to have more protein than you minimally require, than it is to risk undershooting, particularly for those of us who place so much stress on our bodies through our training. Going over ensures positive nitrogen balance, with no net harm to your health - at least for those of us who don't live in a renal unit.

Going under risks muscle loss. No-brainer there.

Furthermore, for those of us who have trouble with appetite control (yes, some of us struggle with this even while bulking, sadly...), protein is very satiating. Relative to protein, carbohydrate is not. Fat's somewhere in the middle - and may be more satiating for the obese, particularly for obese women.

I generally suggest setting a protein and fat minimum of a gram of protein and half a gram of fat per pound LBM, filling up the remainder of one's calorie limit by comfort.

For my own diet, I do this by tucking what little starchy carb I personally feel comfortable consuming into the meal before and/or right after I train. In practice, out of comfort I tend to like my protein at well over a gram and a half per pound LBM, my fats just under a gram per pound LBM (I LOVES me my fats!) and my carbs at just over a gram per pound LBM, on average. But it varies from day to day depending on my training and my calorie limit (I carb-cycle so I get appetite control on the off days, and more food with the appetite-stimulating carbs I consume on training days).

If you feel comfortable on higher carbs than I do, you're fine. You may find it comforting to know that if you don't, you're also fine.

Oh, and a couple of studies regarding post workout nutrition:

Effect of carbohydrate intake on net muscle protein synthesis during recovery from resistance exercise (October 2003)
"We conclude that ingestion of carbohydrates improved net leg protein balance after resistance exercise. However, the effect was minor and delayed compared with the previously reported effect of ingestion of amino acids."

MariAnne's comment: Post workout carbs help - but not nearly as much as post workout amino acids, even in the absence of carbohydrate. Remember, amino acids stimulate insulin, too…

Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion
before and after exercise (August 2006)
"It is clear that provision of amino acids, whether in free form (3, 6, 8, 10) or as intact proteins (9), in association with resistance exercise increases muscle protein synthesis and results in net muscle protein synthesis, i.e., positive net muscle protein balance. Recently, the timing of ingestion of proteins and amino acids in relation to resistance exercise has received some attention. Previously, we demonstrated that there was a similar response to an essential amino acid (EAA)/carbohydrate solution when given at 1 compared with 3 h postexercise (7). However, when EAA was ingested before exercise, the response of muscle anabolism was greater than immediately (11) or 1 or 3 h after exercise (7). The most obvious explanation for the superior response when EAA were ingested before exercise was increased delivery of amino acids to the muscle(11)."

MariAnne's comment: there is certainly support for preworkout amino acids (EAAs) to support anabolism, although intact protein consumed preworkout produces no different result than when consumed postworkout:

"Unlike the response to EAA in our previous study (11), the anabolic response to whey protein ingestion was similar whether ingested before or following exercise. Thus it seems that muscle protein accretion is stimulated by ingestion of whey proteins, and the timing of the ingestion in relation to the exercise is not as important for this response as it was for EAA."

MariAnne's comment: Cover your ass: consume protein before AND after you train. If you REALLY want to cover your ass, consume preworkout amino acids, and postworkout intact protein. Get a little carb into either or both of these meals if you can afford the calories and tolerate them well. And remember, exercise activates GLUT4, so you can encourage reglycogenation if you remain moderately active postworkout.

Biggly · 10-31-2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Biggly, this sounds odd to me. Upon what do you base this assertion?

Personal experience, feedback from my software users and various studies, though I'm aware some studies contradict each other.

I also find some extra post workout carbs help reduce DOMS, which helps me train more often.

Bottom line your body is desperate to replace energy and yes, you can provide that energy via protein alone but adding carbs to the mix seems to help. It reduces the likelihood of cortisol production while still allowing the insulin spike that helps shove the goodies where they're meant to go.

Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate high carbs at any other time than post workout as they'll do nothing but harm yet immediately after heavy exercise your body will use them, not store them. Your muscle glycogen is depleted and if you don't provide glycogen directly your body will make its own, using your existing muscle tissue if it has to.

You'll increase protein synthesis via just protein, obviously, but that's like looking at a company's turnover without considering its profit. Just because you're 'turning over' a lot of protein doesn't mean you're gaining MORE muscle, just that your body is especially busy working with proteins.

You'll repair the damage just by eating protein but to grow you need extra energy and eating protein for energy, ie getting your body to convert it to sugar, is a slower and more expensive process than just adding plenty of sugar to the post workout meal in the first place.

Either nutrient timing is important or it isn't, and I believe it is. As such you have a limited 'window of opportunity' to maximise results - so why give your body all the sugar it wants, and it wants it right now - but in the form of amino acids which the body has to convert to glycogen first? This is the one time your body will grab the sugar on the go and stick it exactly where it's needed, rather than the usual "Oh, sugar, where should we stick this?" which invariably means in your fat cells.

That's my reasoning anyway and the various graphs and emails I get sent confirm that in real world experience by actual lifters, rather than any study.

There's studies out there that 'prove' you only need protein, there's others that 'prove' you need mostly protein before, carbs after, others that 'prove' you need to mix both, before and after, others that prove other stuff altogether (such as throwing creatine into the mix). When I can I always go by monitored results of normal people rather than studies. Controlled studies are great for pure chemistry but the very act of controlling the studies can distort the results.

Again talking of studies and protein, according to most studies bodybuilders eat far too much and we only need about half an egg a week or something silly but we know from experience you need "too much" to get real world results.

B.

**Built** · 10-31-2008, 01:53 AM

If your object is to replace glycogen, well, carbs are going to do the trick. Postworkout, with glycogen low, glycogen synthase high and all those GLUT4 translocated and at the ready, your muscle cells are primed for delivery.

However, we're not marathon runners carbing up here, we're trying to stimulate anabolism while blunting cortisol, and proteins are insulinemic too. For muscle growth, you aren't replacing energy so much as you're stimulating repair. In the immediate postworkout window, glucose uptake is actually independent of insulin.

I'm not saying don't consume carb, but I'd hardly say carbohydrate is more important than protein at this time!

Besides, protein is satiating. Carbs aren't.

Biggly · 10-31-2008, 02:18 AM

Quote:

However, we're not marathon runners carbing up here, we're trying to stimulate anabolism...

Right but all anabolic means is 'bigger' basically and what's the main bulk of muscle? Water. Why water? Cos that's how gylcogen, ie fuel, gets delivered. If it's not there you'll A. dehydrate the muscle regardless of water intake and B. risk gluconeogenesis from cortisol.

But like I say, getting technical is almost beside the point, post workout carbs (with protein) seems to work, empthasis on carbs.

B.

**Built** · 10-31-2008, 02:34 AM

Emphasis on protein. No need at all for any carbohydrate in this timeframe. We are trying to enhance protein synthesis.

Now, if you're talking precontest prep, sure, you want to stuff a bunch of water into the muscle. Different animal.

Valias · 11-04-2008, 10:11 AM

Personally have high glycemic carbs after a workout, it's like a semi 'cheat' meal but not, so you don't go insane from nothing but oats and you still do what may be effective.

I'm going to assume alot of people are on the fence as of what glycemic carbs are superior in what regard post workout. From what I've learned, personally leaning towards high glycemic for my particular goals / body type.

**Built** · 11-04-2008, 10:43 AM

If you're gonna do so-called "fast" carbs, postworkout's the right time, to be sure.

**Merkaba** · 11-04-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valias

Personally have high glycemic carbs after a workout, it's like a semi 'cheat' meal but not, so you don't go insane from nothing but oats and you still do what may be effective.

I'm going to assume alot of people are on the fence as of what glycemic carbs are superior in what regard post workout. From what I've learned, personally leaning towards high glycemic for my particular goals / body type.

why high before a workout(other than the mental part you alluded to)
????

**Built** · 11-04-2008, 02:14 PM

My thinking is that a little fast carb preworkout can spare glycogen a little longer.

bigsahm21 · 11-04-2008, 07:41 PM

Personally I like a little "fast" and "slow" before, and plenty of fast afterwards.

Ben dur · 11-04-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanski

why not whole milk if you want more calories?

i'm bulking and i make my shakes with whole milk (150cals/16oz) and then add 2 Tbsp condensed milk (130cals) to it!

that is not accurate
16 oz of milk is 2 cups

should be in the range of 240 cals

Valias · 11-04-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba

why high before a workout(other than the mental part you alluded to)
????

I only really stated high post workout.

I'm thinking you'd mainly only do high before when in a pinch, hypothetical, you're going to the gym in 30 minutes and you havn't eaten in 4 hours and your energy is low, you'd consider consuming some high glyc carbs for energy and as built said some more glycogen.

Another thing we could consider here (or in a new thread) is during-workout nutrition (peri?-workout), Do you bother? What do you use?

I know it's been shown to 'reduce the level to which you go into negative nitrogen balance' by consuming glucose during a weights / cardio workout. What this would mean would be your body is burning less protein (muscle) for fuel.

Ben dur · 11-04-2008, 09:37 PM

pre i seem to operate VERY well on

1/2 cup oats
2 scoops whey
1 cup coffee

this puts it in the range of 360 cals

post i like
1 scoop sizeon
2 scoops whey

thats about 320 cals

not much fat in either of these "meals"(although they are more like snacks)

================================================== ==============================

the macros of your shake look something like
700 cal

11g fat
75g pro
45g carbs

acording to my mental database and some mental math
this is probably not real accurate

id simply cut out the Peanut Butter in this meal
it just slows the absorption of protein slightly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i think id go with

2 scoops whey
2 cups milk
1/2 cup oats

thats something like
550 cals

45g carbs
65g pro
5g fat

10-24-2008, 04:25 PM	#1
GOtriSports Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 322 Photos: 26	My post workout shake! Hey everyone I wanted to tell you what I put in my post workout shake and see if you all think it is pretty good or not. I used to just drink my 3 scoops of protein powder with water but I am trying to eat more calories and bulk atm so here it s: In a blender I put 3 scoop of Whey protein (about 60g) 1/3 cup Raw oats 1.5 cups skim milk 1 Tbl spoon natty peanut butter lots of ice I have not figured out the macros, I can do that if you want to know it, but I feel like this is a pretty powerful post workout shake, what do you think?

10-24-2008, 10:36 PM	#2
JailHouse Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,600 Photos: 3	Looks good as long as it fits in your daily cal intake. Jailhouse Journal

10-27-2008, 01:47 AM	#6
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Why soy? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-27-2008, 06:57 AM	#8
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	Do away with the pb and eat gummy worms.... Sounds like something I'd say. Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

10-27-2008, 09:55 AM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Hmmm. Well, soy's a goitrogen (means it interferes with thyroid function) and has phytoestrogenic properties, which means it weakly mimics estrogen in the body - which may be good or bad, I'm on the fence about it personally. I don't consume soy, myself. I don't trust it. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-25-2008, 11:48 AM	#3
bigsahm21 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 570	60g protein powder + 12g protien from milk + 5g protein from oats + 3g protein from PB = about 80g of protein. That's a little excessive...why so much?

10-25-2008, 12:21 PM	#4
urbanski Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 237	why not whole milk if you want more calories? i'm bulking and i make my shakes with whole milk (150cals/16oz) and then add 2 Tbsp condensed milk (130cals) to it!

10-27-2008, 01:15 AM	#5
go4kj Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: West virginia, USA Posts: 106	Not everyone may agree with this, but from what I've read a combo of Whey+Casein+Soy protein helps to build more mass than Whey alone postworkout. That's what I use. Aim for 40-60 grams. No fast acting carbs? May I suggest Waxy Maize or something like Gatorade or even a bagel or Gummy worms(fat free) for the insulin spike & replenish glycogen stores. 40-100 gms of fast acting carbs. I would do away with the Peanut butter. Add some Creatine. My .02

10-27-2008, 11:26 AM	#10
bigsahm21 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 570	I hear that those effects from soy only come when you eat in excess of 3 or so servings of soy foods a day. Have you heard anything like that?

10-27-2008, 06:20 PM	#11
go4kj Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: West virginia, USA Posts: 106	I've read some mixed things about soy. I need to do some more indepth research on that topic. Muscle and fitness magazine to which I'm a subscriber has always supported it's use. Can someone provide any quality articles regarding the negatives of Soy?

10-27-2008, 06:35 PM	#12
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	I'm sure that's possible. Personally, I prefer to avoid it completely. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-27-2008, 11:18 PM	#13
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	spirutein (soy based) protein powder used to be my favorite. It tasted well, was "all natural" and loaded with goodies, and it just set better with me. I always felt great afterwards. Its madly expensive though. At least it was when I was taking it back when I was vegetarian. The more research I came across that spoke about the dairy chain just turned me against regular milk but i do drink it from time to time, and I try to save my dairy for cheese consumption which I love. I use silk soy enchanced for most milk functions. Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

10-29-2008, 11:56 AM	#14
go4kj Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: West virginia, USA Posts: 106	I'm probably going to stop using soy too. Here is a link with references: Is soy healthy? Welcome to Soy Online Service Last edited by go4kj : 10-29-2008 at 12:15 PM.

10-30-2008, 08:11 AM	#15
Biggly Nerd Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Borneo Posts: 567	Gotrisport, it looks to me like you're very much aiming for protein which is great for pre-workout but for postworkout you should be looking more towards carbohydrates, ie sugars. 60/40 split in favor of carbs is about right. After the workout your body is desperate to replace energy in the short term, with new muscle later. If you give it no sugar but protein you'll just be burning protein for energy. Save the bulk of your protein for a few hours after the workout or a few hours before, not immediately after. B. Biggly Bodybuilding Software Food Data Rep Calc

10-30-2008, 10:12 AM	#16
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Biggly, this sounds odd to me. Upon what do you base this assertion? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-30-2008, 09:50 PM	#18
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	If your fat is at least half a gram per pound LBM, it's likely ample. For carbs, there IS no "optimal" amount, since carbohydrate is not an essential macronutrient in humans. On a bulk, it won't matter all that much where the increased calories come from. If you go over in your calories by too much, you're going to gain too much fat, flat out. However, it has long been my assertion that it's better to have more protein than you minimally require, than it is to risk undershooting, particularly for those of us who place so much stress on our bodies through our training. Going over ensures positive nitrogen balance, with no net harm to your health - at least for those of us who don't live in a renal unit. Going under risks muscle loss. No-brainer there. Furthermore, for those of us who have trouble with appetite control (yes, some of us struggle with this even while bulking, sadly...), protein is very satiating. Relative to protein, carbohydrate is not. Fat's somewhere in the middle - and may be more satiating for the obese, particularly for obese women. I generally suggest setting a protein and fat minimum of a gram of protein and half a gram of fat per pound LBM, filling up the remainder of one's calorie limit by comfort. For my own diet, I do this by tucking what little starchy carb I personally feel comfortable consuming into the meal before and/or right after I train. In practice, out of comfort I tend to like my protein at well over a gram and a half per pound LBM, my fats just under a gram per pound LBM (I LOVES me my fats!) and my carbs at just over a gram per pound LBM, on average. But it varies from day to day depending on my training and my calorie limit (I carb-cycle so I get appetite control on the off days, and more food with the appetite-stimulating carbs I consume on training days). If you feel comfortable on higher carbs than I do, you're fine. You may find it comforting to know that if you don't, you're also fine. Oh, and a couple of studies regarding post workout nutrition: Effect of carbohydrate intake on net muscle protein synthesis during recovery from resistance exercise (October 2003) "We conclude that ingestion of carbohydrates improved net leg protein balance after resistance exercise. However, the effect was minor and delayed compared with the previously reported effect of ingestion of amino acids." MariAnne's comment: Post workout carbs help - but not nearly as much as post workout amino acids, even in the absence of carbohydrate. Remember, amino acids stimulate insulin, too… Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion before and after exercise (August 2006) "It is clear that provision of amino acids, whether in free form (3, 6, 8, 10) or as intact proteins (9), in association with resistance exercise increases muscle protein synthesis and results in net muscle protein synthesis, i.e., positive net muscle protein balance. Recently, the timing of ingestion of proteins and amino acids in relation to resistance exercise has received some attention. Previously, we demonstrated that there was a similar response to an essential amino acid (EAA)/carbohydrate solution when given at 1 compared with 3 h postexercise (7). However, when EAA was ingested before exercise, the response of muscle anabolism was greater than immediately (11) or 1 or 3 h after exercise (7). The most obvious explanation for the superior response when EAA were ingested before exercise was increased delivery of amino acids to the muscle(11)." MariAnne's comment: there is certainly support for preworkout amino acids (EAAs) to support anabolism, although intact protein consumed preworkout produces no different result than when consumed postworkout: "Unlike the response to EAA in our previous study (11), the anabolic response to whey protein ingestion was similar whether ingested before or following exercise. Thus it seems that muscle protein accretion is stimulated by ingestion of whey proteins, and the timing of the ingestion in relation to the exercise is not as important for this response as it was for EAA." MariAnne's comment: Cover your ass: consume protein before AND after you train. If you REALLY want to cover your ass, consume preworkout amino acids, and postworkout intact protein. Get a little carb into either or both of these meals if you can afford the calories and tolerate them well. And remember, exercise activates GLUT4, so you can encourage reglycogenation if you remain moderately active postworkout. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-31-2008, 01:53 AM	#20
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	If your object is to replace glycogen, well, carbs are going to do the trick. Postworkout, with glycogen low, glycogen synthase high and all those GLUT4 translocated and at the ready, your muscle cells are primed for delivery. However, we're not marathon runners carbing up here, we're trying to stimulate anabolism while blunting cortisol, and proteins are insulinemic too. For muscle growth, you aren't replacing energy so much as you're stimulating repair. In the immediate postworkout window, glucose uptake is actually independent of insulin. I'm not saying don't consume carb, but I'd hardly say carbohydrate is more important than protein at this time! Besides, protein is satiating. Carbs aren't. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-31-2008, 02:34 AM	#22
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Emphasis on protein. No need at all for any carbohydrate in this timeframe. We are trying to enhance protein synthesis. Now, if you're talking precontest prep, sure, you want to stuff a bunch of water into the muscle. Different animal. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-04-2008, 10:11 AM	#23
Valias Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Brisbane Posts: 278 Photos: 5	Personally have high glycemic carbs after a workout, it's like a semi 'cheat' meal but not, so you don't go insane from nothing but oats and you still do what may be effective. I'm going to assume alot of people are on the fence as of what glycemic carbs are superior in what regard post workout. From what I've learned, personally leaning towards high glycemic for my particular goals / body type. "I'll eat all the damned Ham, Cheese, Tomato, Onion toasted sandwhiches I want." -Val

11-04-2008, 10:43 AM	#24
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	If you're gonna do so-called "fast" carbs, postworkout's the right time, to be sure. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-04-2008, 02:14 PM	#26
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	My thinking is that a little fast carb preworkout can spare glycogen a little longer. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-04-2008, 07:41 PM	#27
bigsahm21 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 570	Personally I like a little "fast" and "slow" before, and plenty of fast afterwards.

11-04-2008, 09:37 PM	#30
Ben dur Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton FL Posts: 1,235 Photos: 6	pre i seem to operate VERY well on 1/2 cup oats 2 scoops whey 1 cup coffee this puts it in the range of 360 cals post i like 1 scoop sizeon 2 scoops whey thats about 320 cals not much fat in either of these "meals"(although they are more like snacks) ================================================== ============================== the macros of your shake look something like 700 cal 11g fat 75g pro 45g carbs acording to my mental database and some mental math this is probably not real accurate id simply cut out the Peanut Butter in this meal it just slows the absorption of protein slightly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ i think id go with 2 scoops whey 2 cups milk 1/2 cup oats thats something like 550 cals 45g carbs 65g pro 5g fat 21 5'11" ~175lbs 8% on elec. analyzer

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