PSMF Question

danzik17 · 02-08-2009, 09:20 PM

For those who would know, how would running a PSMF mid-cut potentially affect health and/or LBM loss? For all of the setups I've read about (mostly on Built's blog) it's been an intro to the cut where the person is coming from a layoff or is a heavier person.

The reason I ask is that for my current goals, my diet is no good. It will get me there eventually, but it's going to overshoot my target date by at least 1-2 months. I'm thinking about cycling a PSMF with 1 week on, 1 week off to help stave off any serious metabolic damage from running a low cal diet. I fit right into the Class 1 category (12-13% BF).

I'll also pre-emptively say that a UD 2.0 style diet won't necessarily work for me. Following it wouldn't be a problem, but hitting the gym for all of the depletion workouts during the week would be very troublesome, though not impossible if that was the only option.

Nigeepoo · 02-09-2009, 03:15 AM

A PSMF provides your body with all of the nutrients it needs so there's no reason why it should adversely affect your health. As long as you don't overdo the exercise, you won't lose LBM. Read BodyRecomposition Support Forums - Powered by vBulletin as there is a ton of useful information there. Rapid Fat Loss handbook is a PSMF.

danzik17 · 02-09-2009, 11:23 PM

Just polished off Lyle's book on it. Pretty straightforward.

Here's my concept diet, any and all comments welcome. If this diet is ready by Friday then I will do a mini-refeed (basically eat over maintenance by about 50-100 cals, not much) for 2 days and then dive right in.

I will be following Lyle's comment on no more than 12 days. If I start this diet on Sunday then my post PSMF refeeds will fall beautifully on Fri/Sat/Sun. Obviously boatloads of fibrous veggies will be eaten (mainly in the form of spinach, romaine, brussel sprouts, and broccolli).

Here's a question though:

Is salsa acceptable on this diet? It would add minor amounts of carbs each day. If I had to do without it I could, just not as tasty

I swear to god the hardest parts of this diet are going to be no cream in my coffee and no whole eggs for 12 days. And the salsa maybe.

**Built** · 02-10-2009, 12:29 AM

Anything is acceptable on this diet. It just creeps up the calories. McDonald's guidelines are the minimum you can run, not the max.

When I do it, I go a tiny bit higher fat, for comfort. I still run a significant deficit, so it's still a great way to drop a few pounds in 12 days.

**Built** · 02-10-2009, 12:32 AM

By the way, got the training and the carbup planned out?

Tell me your LBM and I'll spit out the carbup.

When I did it, I trained every third day, alternating between these two workouts:

PSMF workout 1
Push press 3 x 5-8
Chins 3 x 5-8
Squats 3 x 5-8

PSMF workout 2
Bench 3 x 5-8
Deads 3 x 5-8
T-bars 3 x 5-8

You can do a tension workout on the day you start your carbup if you want, and you can do a depletion workout to get you into ketosis faster at the beginning of the 12 days.

PS eat some green veggies. Lyle recommends that.

danzik17 · 02-10-2009, 12:45 AM

Yep, green veggies will be eaten by the boatload even more than I do now.

My training was actually going to be set up almost identical to that but possibly replacing push press with dips and T-bars with 1 arm DB rows. I'll follow your 3-day guideline and hit Tues/Fri one week and Mon/Thurs the next. I'll also throw in a power workout on Saturday following the second week to take advantage of the sweet sweet supercompensation that I'm sure will be happening that day.

I'm currently sitting around 168lbs at 12-13% BF estimated, so my LBM should be in the area of 146.16lbs.

Surprisingly the PSMF is only around 500 calories lower than my normal diet. It's basically my diet minus the carbs that I eat and a moderate amount of fat.

**Built** · 02-10-2009, 12:52 AM

Okay, so you have three options for your carbup:

Code:

Category 1 refeed	Day 1	Day 2
Grams of Protein	292	292
Grams of carb - low	584	292
Grams of Fat		48	48
Calories		3,938	2,770

Code:

Category 1 refeed	Day 1	Day 2
Grams of Protein	292	292
Grams of carb - medium	730	365
Grams of Fat		48	48
Calories		4,522	3,062

Code:

Category 1 refeed	Day 1	Day 2
Grams of Protein	292	292
Grams of carb - high	876	438
Grams of Fat		48	48
Calories		5,106	3,354

**Built** · 02-10-2009, 12:56 AM

Tension Workout - do this on day 13, just before you start the carbup. About half an hour or so before you do this workout, have an apple and a low carb whey shake.

Code:

Movement	Reps	Rest
Squats		8-12	75
Leg extensions	8-12	75
RDLs		8-12	75
SHELC		8-12	75
Arnies		8-12	75
Lat pulldowns	8-12	75
Rows		8-12	75
Incline bench	8-12	75
Bis		8-12	75
Tris		8-12	75

Do 2 sets of each, do 'em as pairs if desired.

danzik17 · 02-10-2009, 12:57 AM

Easy decision for me there, I'll shoot for a medium day followed by a low day. I think I would have trouble putting down enough food to hit the carb targets on the high one.

Hell this diet almost has me excited...I've got one hell of a refeed to look forward to. Hello bagels, sweet potatoes, and some pasta...I missed you!

Edit:
----------------------------

I'll have to hit the gym early at like 7AM on Day 13 since it's a Friday then otherwise I go too late (9PM normally).

**Built** · 02-10-2009, 01:02 AM

You misunderstand.

Choose one of the three options listed. The first one is low, the second is medium, the third is high.

danzik17 · 02-10-2009, 01:09 AM

Ah yes I see - medium it is then. I know I can put down more than low, but I don't think I could put down enough for high.

Nigeepoo · 02-10-2009, 05:29 AM

One minor point. Ground flaxseed is good for maintaining your bowel movements, but not good for giving your brain DHA. See Extremely Limited Synthesis of Long Chain Polyunsaturates in Adults: Implications for their Dietary Essentiality and use as Supplements | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

danzik17 · 02-10-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigeepoo

One minor point. Ground flaxseed is good for maintaining your bowel movements, but not good for giving your brain DHA. See Extremely Limited Synthesis of Long Chain Polyunsaturates in Adults: Implications for their Dietary Essentiality and use as Supplements | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

I know the conversions from ALA -> DHA aren't great, but I have issues when taking fish oil. I have a very reproducable problem that when I take fish oil by AST/ALT liver enzyme levels will spike to upwards of 300% of normal levels. This has happened with multiple brands of fish oil so it's not an isolated incident.

02-08-2009, 09:20 PM	#1
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	PSMF Question For those who would know, how would running a PSMF mid-cut potentially affect health and/or LBM loss? For all of the setups I've read about (mostly on Built's blog) it's been an intro to the cut where the person is coming from a layoff or is a heavier person. The reason I ask is that for my current goals, my diet is no good. It will get me there eventually, but it's going to overshoot my target date by at least 1-2 months. I'm thinking about cycling a PSMF with 1 week on, 1 week off to help stave off any serious metabolic damage from running a low cal diet. I fit right into the Class 1 category (12-13% BF). I'll also pre-emptively say that a UD 2.0 style diet won't necessarily work for me. Following it wouldn't be a problem, but hitting the gym for all of the depletion workouts during the week would be very troublesome, though not impossible if that was the only option. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

02-09-2009, 03:15 AM	#2
Nigeepoo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yateley, Hants, United Kingdom Posts: 279	A PSMF provides your body with all of the nutrients it needs so there's no reason why it should adversely affect your health. As long as you don't overdo the exercise, you won't lose LBM. Read BodyRecomposition Support Forums - Powered by vBulletin as there is a ton of useful information there. Rapid Fat Loss handbook is a PSMF. "You lost fat by raising calories. Because of magic and voodoo. Or leptin. One of those." McDonald L. Blog

02-09-2009, 11:23 PM	#3
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	Just polished off Lyle's book on it. Pretty straightforward. Here's my concept diet, any and all comments welcome. If this diet is ready by Friday then I will do a mini-refeed (basically eat over maintenance by about 50-100 cals, not much) for 2 days and then dive right in. I will be following Lyle's comment on no more than 12 days. If I start this diet on Sunday then my post PSMF refeeds will fall beautifully on Fri/Sat/Sun. Obviously boatloads of fibrous veggies will be eaten (mainly in the form of spinach, romaine, brussel sprouts, and broccolli). Here's a question though: Is salsa acceptable on this diet? It would add minor amounts of carbs each day. If I had to do without it I could, just not as tasty I swear to god the hardest parts of this diet are going to be no cream in my coffee and no whole eggs for 12 days. And the salsa maybe. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

02-10-2009, 12:29 AM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	Anything is acceptable on this diet. It just creeps up the calories. McDonald's guidelines are the minimum you can run, not the max. When I do it, I go a tiny bit higher fat, for comfort. I still run a significant deficit, so it's still a great way to drop a few pounds in 12 days. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

02-10-2009, 12:32 AM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	By the way, got the training and the carbup planned out? Tell me your LBM and I'll spit out the carbup. When I did it, I trained every third day, alternating between these two workouts: PSMF workout 1 Push press 3 x 5-8 Chins 3 x 5-8 Squats 3 x 5-8 PSMF workout 2 Bench 3 x 5-8 Deads 3 x 5-8 T-bars 3 x 5-8 You can do a tension workout on the day you start your carbup if you want, and you can do a depletion workout to get you into ketosis faster at the beginning of the 12 days. PS eat some green veggies. Lyle recommends that. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

02-10-2009, 12:45 AM	#6
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	Yep, green veggies will be eaten by the boatload even more than I do now. My training was actually going to be set up almost identical to that but possibly replacing push press with dips and T-bars with 1 arm DB rows. I'll follow your 3-day guideline and hit Tues/Fri one week and Mon/Thurs the next. I'll also throw in a power workout on Saturday following the second week to take advantage of the sweet sweet supercompensation that I'm sure will be happening that day. I'm currently sitting around 168lbs at 12-13% BF estimated, so my LBM should be in the area of 146.16lbs. Surprisingly the PSMF is only around 500 calories lower than my normal diet. It's basically my diet minus the carbs that I eat and a moderate amount of fat. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

02-10-2009, 12:52 AM	#7
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	Okay, so you have three options for your carbup: Code: Category 1 refeed Day 1 Day 2 Grams of Protein 292 292 Grams of carb - low 584 292 Grams of Fat 48 48 Calories 3,938 2,770 Code: Category 1 refeed Day 1 Day 2 Grams of Protein 292 292 Grams of carb - medium 730 365 Grams of Fat 48 48 Calories 4,522 3,062 Code: Category 1 refeed Day 1 Day 2 Grams of Protein 292 292 Grams of carb - high 876 438 Grams of Fat 48 48 Calories 5,106 3,354 Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

02-10-2009, 12:56 AM	#8
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	Tension Workout - do this on day 13, just before you start the carbup. About half an hour or so before you do this workout, have an apple and a low carb whey shake. Code: Movement Reps Rest Squats 8-12 75 Leg extensions 8-12 75 RDLs 8-12 75 SHELC 8-12 75 Arnies 8-12 75 Lat pulldowns 8-12 75 Rows 8-12 75 Incline bench 8-12 75 Bis 8-12 75 Tris 8-12 75 Do 2 sets of each, do 'em as pairs if desired. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

02-10-2009, 12:57 AM	#9
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	Easy decision for me there, I'll shoot for a medium day followed by a low day. I think I would have trouble putting down enough food to hit the carb targets on the high one. Hell this diet almost has me excited...I've got one hell of a refeed to look forward to. Hello bagels, sweet potatoes, and some pasta...I missed you! Edit: ---------------------------- I'll have to hit the gym early at like 7AM on Day 13 since it's a Friday then otherwise I go too late (9PM normally). Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

02-10-2009, 01:02 AM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,116	You misunderstand. Choose one of the three options listed. The first one is low, the second is medium, the third is high. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

02-10-2009, 01:09 AM	#11
danzik17 Gender: MALE Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,074	Ah yes I see - medium it is then. I know I can put down more than low, but I don't think I could put down enough for high. Ron Paul 2012 Journal: danzik17's Log - 4-6 Week Strength/Bulk Journal: Sub 10% by April <old>

02-10-2009, 05:29 AM	#12
Nigeepoo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Yateley, Hants, United Kingdom Posts: 279	One minor point. Ground flaxseed is good for maintaining your bowel movements, but not good for giving your brain DHA. See Extremely Limited Synthesis of Long Chain Polyunsaturates in Adults: Implications for their Dietary Essentiality and use as Supplements \| BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald "You lost fat by raising calories. Because of magic and voodoo. Or leptin. One of those." McDonald L. Blog

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