Thread: Critique my new cutting diet

Originally Posted by workhard1

Ok I am about to be changing my lifting routine up for the first time in a while and when I do this i am going to go ahead and start my cut so I feel great for the beach this summer. The lifting routine I will be giving a try for this cut is P/RR/S that is a sticky in the training section.

Current stats:
6'0
190 Lbs
12% BF
Goal BF = 7-8% (I know thats fairly low, but I want to set my goal there)
Maintenance Cals: 2400
Cutting cals: I am thinking about 2000-2050. I know often times people say go 500 cals below maintenance for your cut but since I have about 3 months of cutting ahead of me I am ready to take it slow hopefully and retain all the muscle mass I can.

I will post an example of what I will eat in a day and then give you the average macros for each day:

Example Day in my cut:

8:30 AM - 1/2 Cup Cottage Cheese, 1 tbls Natty Peanut butter

11:30- Cup of green tea

12:30- Pre-workout Shake (Just Whey and CEE)

1:30- (this is during my lifting) Twin Labs Endurance fuel (pretty much just Waxy Maize)

2:30- Post Workout Shake (again just Whey and CEE)

6:30 - 3 cups Raw veggies, 2 medium chicken breasts, 1/2 cup cottage cheese, 1 tbls canola oil, 1tbls butter

12:00 (or whenever I get to sleep) 1/4 cup cottage cheese 1tbls Natty Peanut butter


I know this is not the conventional eat every 3 hours and keep your metabolism burning idea, but I have heard that the idea behind that is flawed anyway. I need to eat like this to keep my appetite down. I am never hungry during the day and if I do not eat a large dinner around 6:30-7:00 I also get really hungry later at night. So I place that one large meal in that spot and it keeps my hunger low.

here are the macros for that day:

Calories: 2050
Protein: 249g
Carbs: 84g
Fat: 79.5g

I wonder if my protein is too high? I seriously do not want to eat anymore carbs than I have there though because all it does is make me hungrier. This will be the first time I have tried a cut with carbs that low (especially since about 20g of those carbs are coming from my drink during my workout). I have also never had a cut where the protein is this high. However, on previous cuts I have always had major problems with hunger (highlighted by LOUD stomach roars). Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I'm not an expert by any means however it looks like you could get pretty hungry from 830am till noon or 230. I'd maybe go with a little bigger breakfast maybe some oats in there too somewhere something to fill the gap a bit...or maybe something else when your drinking your green tea

looks like you have read through a bunch of the forums and stickies.........i wouldnt worry to much about the break of food long as you get it in but if you feel hungry between 8:30 and 12:30 then maybe switch it up if not dont worry about it and i believe using low carbs is a great idea they are not very filling if you ask me lol while protein and fats are very satiating

I believe you have too many shakes and not enough real food.Just my opinion.

Your protein is fine - I go as high as 2g/lb LBM when cutting.
If you're comfortable, you'll be fine on this.

Get in 10g fish oil, and perhaps carb cycle so you get some post workout starch. Either that or reduce your training volume and have a carbup once a week. You are quite correct that there is no need at all to eat every three hours - it certainly does nothing to speed your metabolism.

Originally Posted by Built

Your protein is fine - I go as high as 2g/lb LBM when cutting.
If you're comfortable, you'll be fine on this.

Get in 10g fish oil, and perhaps carb cycle so you get some post workout starch. Either that or reduce your training volume and have a carbup once a week. You are quite correct that there is no need at all to eat every three hours - it certainly does nothing to speed your metabolism.

I always heard that it takes 2 1/2-3 hours for you body to digest your food after if you don't consume food (protein especially) you body will start to eat up your muscle tissue that is why its important to eat every 3 hours

I know. You'll hear it a lot, too.

It's not true, but you'll hear it a lot.

Originally Posted by Built

I know. You'll hear it a lot, too.

It's not true, but you'll hear it a lot.

I think it just makes sense to people, they feel a hunger in their stomach, and they imagine their body eating away at muscle. Although a lot of other things also make sense to some people:

*toning their fat into muscle
*high reps, low weights so as not to get to ''bulky''
*steriods will make you body literally explode, and protein shakes also have anabolic properties
*cardio literally 'melts' your fat away

Too many more to list.

Originally Posted by Moondogg

I think it just makes sense to people, they feel a hunger in their stomach, and they imagine their body eating away at muscle. Although a lot of other things also make sense to some people:

*toning their fat into muscle
*high reps, low weights so as not to get to ''bulky''
*steriods will make you body literally explode, and protein shakes also have anabolic properties
*cardio literally 'melts' your fat away

Too many more to list.

Too much mythology in this area.

"wide grip builds width"
"spot reduction"
"low fat-diets for fat loss..."
<shudders>

What eating every 3 hours DOES do is keep your blood sugar levels relatively stable so that you're not tempted to go off and binge on the nearest food available from the rollercoaster ride that can happen depending on your diet. Just thought it should be put out there

For sure, if it's more comfortable, go for it.

My aunt is being followed by a dietitian and haven the dietitian told her to eat 6 meals at about every 3 hours.Why would they say that?

Is your aunt diabetic?

Originally Posted by Built

Is your aunt diabetic?

No but she is overweight and as a tyroid problem

Built:

I would like to know where you get your information from.

While I would agree that there would be almost no difference between, say, eating 2000 cals spread over 6 meals vs. 5.

But I am eating 3000 cals a day.
Don't you think my body would store less cals as fat if I spread
that out over 5 meals, vs. 3?


Edit- Not to mention, that Ive read multiple articles about going into a Catabolic state.
For me, I would think if I went more than 4.5 hours without eating, I would
start to catabolize. So it just seems more intelligent to eat as often as possible.

thanks for the suggestions everyone. Built, if I were to add some post workout starch what should I drop from my diet then? I am ok with adding a little bit of starch (provided my hunger levels don't go up), but something else will have to be dropped to keep my macros low. I could change my pre and post workout shakes to just 25g of protein in stead of 50. That would open up about 220 calories I can use on starch post workout (assuming I am still getting enough protein).

And yeah, as I said, I am most comfortable eating very little early in the day and more in the evening so I can keep my hunger levels low. I believe the small meal every 3 hours may work for some people, but I stay satiated longer when eating a really big meal around 7 pm.

Originally Posted by goonieboy2008

No but she is overweight and as a tyroid problem

Her dietitian likely put her on a low fat diet, which is a TERRIBLE idea but it's what they usually do. With a low fat diet, you're HUNGRY every two hours, so she's got your aunt eating every THREE. Slow torture by my standards, but it's standard. I'm sorry for your aunt. I have a thyroid problem too - I'm on desiccated thyroid gland for it. Most get put on Synthroid, which is ALSO a very bad idea, especially for women, but again it's pretty much standard.

Originally Posted by PainandGain

Built:

I would like to know where you get your information from.

You bet. Which information would you like first - meal frequency and metabolism? Start here: Leangains: Excerpt from my upcoming book

And here: Meal Frequency and Energy Balance | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

The peer-reviewed research this is based on dates way back to 1997:
Bellisle F et. al. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. (1997) 77 (Suppl 1):S57-70.

"...studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are liely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation."

- we've known meal frequency doesn't impact upon metabolism for a long time now, but it seems to be a very well-kept secret within the mainstream fitness community.

Originally Posted by PainandGain

While I would agree that there would be almost no difference between, say, eating 2000 cals spread over 6 meals vs. 5.

But I am eating 3000 cals a day.
Don't you think my body would store less cals as fat if I spread
that out over 5 meals, vs. 3?

You will store what you don't need, and retrieve it when you need it. There is no evidence of any net difference, so eat whichever way keeps you comfortable.

It's a budget. Over the course of the day, the balance is the same either way.

Originally Posted by PainandGain

Edit- Not to mention, that Ive read multiple articles about going into a Catabolic state.
For me, I would think if I went more than 4.5 hours without eating, I would
start to catabolize. So it just seems more intelligent to eat as often as possible.

You are welcome to do so. There's nothing wrong with it. But you're not going to go catabolic in four hours.
Read here for more: Leangains: Introduction and updates (31/8)

Originally Posted by workhard1

thanks for the suggestions everyone. Built, if I were to add some post workout starch what should I drop from my diet then? I am ok with adding a little bit of starch (provided my hunger levels don't go up), but something else will have to be dropped to keep my macros low. I could change my pre and post workout shakes to just 25g of protein in stead of 50. That would open up about 220 calories I can use on starch post workout (assuming I am still getting enough protein).

That'll work. Fiddle with it. You can also go high and low on your calories - eat a little less on the low days, eat a little more on the lifting days, so you can better manage hunger.

Originally Posted by workhard1

And yeah, as I said, I am most comfortable eating very little early in the day and more in the evening so I can keep my hunger levels low. I believe the small meal every 3 hours may work for some people, but I stay satiated longer when eating a really big meal around 7 pm.

You and me both. I like to feel FED at night. Doesn't feel like I'm dieting if I get to feel at least a LITTLE full in the evening.

I get the feeling a lot of the eat every 3 hours rumor came from pro bodybuilders. When they cut to 3% bodyfat the rules change again and they DO need to eat every few hours to keep muscle from being burned off by their ridiculous metabolisms. At 3% you don't have the energy stores so your body goes straight for the muscle.

Nobody cuts to 3%. And no, you still don't need to eat every three hours.

It's just old-school lore.

Originally Posted by Built

Nobody cuts to 3%. And no, you still don't need to eat every three hours.

It's just old-school lore.

Maybe not 3% but some do around +-4%

Originally Posted by Built

Your protein is fine - I go as high as 2g/lb LBM when cutting.
If you're comfortable, you'll be fine on this.

Get in 10g fish oil, and perhaps carb cycle so you get some post workout starch. Either that or reduce your training volume and have a carbup once a week. You are quite correct that there is no need at all to eat every three hours - it certainly does nothing to speed your metabolism.

ok, this is a question thats been asked so many times (mostly by me)....What the deal wiht MRP's and Muscle Milk, does it or does it not count as a three hour meal?

What's a three hour meal?

Originally Posted by Built

Her dietitian likely put her on a low fat diet, which is a TERRIBLE idea but it's what they usually do. With a low fat diet, you're HUNGRY every two hours, so she's got your aunt eating every THREE. Slow torture by my standards, but it's standard. I'm sorry for your aunt. I have a thyroid problem too - I'm on desiccated thyroid gland for it. Most get put on Synthroid, which is ALSO a very bad idea, especially for women, but again it's pretty much standard.

You bet. Which information would you like first - meal frequency and metabolism? Start here: Leangains: Excerpt from my upcoming book

And here: Meal Frequency and Energy Balance | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

The peer-reviewed research this is based on dates way back to 1997:
Bellisle F et. al. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. (1997) 77 (Suppl 1):S57-70.

"...studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency. We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are liely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation."

- we've known meal frequency doesn't impact upon metabolism for a long time now, but it seems to be a very well-kept secret within the mainstream fitness community.


You will store what you don't need, and retrieve it when you need it. There is no evidence of any net difference, so eat whichever way keeps you comfortable.

It's a budget. Over the course of the day, the balance is the same either way.

You are welcome to do so. There's nothing wrong with it. But you're not going to go catabolic in four hours.
Read here for more: Leangains: Introduction and updates (31/8)


That'll work. Fiddle with it. You can also go high and low on your calories - eat a little less on the low days, eat a little more on the lifting days, so you can better manage hunger.

You and me both. I like to feel FED at night. Doesn't feel like I'm dieting if I get to feel at least a LITTLE full in the evening.

Thanks for taking the time to make this lengthy post built.
I will def. look into each of these articles, looks very interesting.

PainAndGain, you are most welcome. It's really suprising how slowly this stuff trickles out - once you start reading it, there's SO MUCH that's already been studied, in detail, that refutes much of what many of us had considered iron-clad rules.

Once I got over the shock, I found myself getting really angry. It's hard enough to get your shit together and do the work; why make it harder with an uncomfortable and unnatural diet?

Originally Posted by Built

PainAndGain, you are most welcome. It's really suprising how slowly this stuff trickles out - once you start reading it, there's SO MUCH that's already been studied, in detail, that refutes much of what many of us had considered iron-clad rules.

Once I got over the shock, I found myself getting really angry. It's hard enough to get your shit together and do the work; why make it harder with an uncomfortable and unnatural diet?

Yea it's ridiculous...I just can't believe with all the research I have done in the past, that I never came upon this kind of stuff before.
Guess that's why I joined this forum, to see if I was missing anything.

Thanks again for being so helpful built, you're a good person